Good wee flatpicking lesson focusing on rolls and crosspicking.

BigPaulie · April 2022

This guy is a great picker!

Almost all the crosspicking lessons online focus on variations of the three note roll and the virtues of "down down up" versus "down up down".

This shows how there are other commonly, ubiquitously so, patterns that no-one talks about.

Lewy · April 2022

Nice video, and yes he's an amazing picker! Two-time Winfield winner on guitar (think he won it on mando too).

Crosspicking is probably my favourite thing to do on acoustic. Thanks for sharing.

fretmeister · April 2022

That was really good.

Before I got a hand injury I always played acoustic with just my fingers but I can't do that very well anymore so I've been looking at stuff like this more.

bermudianbrit · April 2022

This is awesome

Lewy · April 2022

fretmeister said:

That was really good.

Before I got a hand injury I always played acoustic with just my fingers but I can't do that very well anymore so I've been looking at stuff like this more.

That's why whenever I see someone talking about acoustics as sounding good 'fingerpicked or strummed' I always inwardly scream "you're missing an entire world of music!!"

I much prefer to crosspick versus fingerpick for acoustic self-accompaniment and solo playing these days because there's just so much you can do and it really gets the best out of a good acoustic guitar.

fretmeister · April 2022

At the moment my "good acoustic" is a 1/2 sized £25 classical!!

It's about 40 years old and falling apart so it will need to be replaced.

I've never owned a good acoustic. If my PRS ever sells I might use the money for that though.

BigPaulie · April 2022

fretmeister said:

That was really good.

Before I got a hand injury I always played acoustic with just my fingers but I can't do that very well anymore so I've been looking at stuff like this more.

I never considered flatpicking as an alternative approach for people with picking hand issues. That's a great way to look at it!

You really do need to invest in that nice acoustic. You know you deserve it .

bertie · April 2022

on a quick scan - isnt that more "hybrid picking" ? as he appears to be using his fingers - admittedly havnt properly watched / listened - going to have a proper watch/listen a bit later............... but nice one

Lewy · April 2022

bertie said:

on a quick scan - isnt that more "hybrid picking" ? as he appears to be using his fingers - admittedly havnt properly watched / listened - going to have a proper watch/listen a bit later............... but nice one

Nah he's not picking with his fingers, although at times he appears to be anchoring his spare fingers on the 1st string which makes it look a bit like he's using he's fingers.

bertie · April 2022

Lewy said:

bertie said:

on a quick scan - isnt that more "hybrid picking" ? as he appears to be using his fingers - admittedly havnt properly watched / listened - going to have a proper watch/listen a bit later............... but nice one

Nah he's not picking with his fingers, although at times he appears to be anchoring his spare fingers on the 1st string which makes it look a bit like he's using he's fingers.

gotcha - Im off to the toof doc now, so I'll have a proper gander later

Lewy · April 2022

People tend to think the only way to do something intricate on acoustic is to fingerpick. Not so! The big difference is that flatpicking by its very nature is more linear/monophonic than fingerpicking and whilst you may think that would make it less self contained, it has a fundamental pulse that carries it through and makes it work. That hails directly from it's roots in the fiddle tradition. The pulse comes from a fairly strict adherence to the principles that you play down beats with a downstroke and up beats with an upstroke....perpetual down up down up down up ... and that means the beat is always emphasised.

fretmeister · April 2022

Damn that first vid is banging.

I'm really going to have to look into this more.

bertie · April 2022

fretmeister said:

Damn that first vid is banging.

I'm really going to have to look into this more.

there might be a Furch OM 33 in the offing......................... just what you need............

(if I can find an Atkin at the right ££)

Lewy · April 2022

fretmeister said:

Damn that first vid is banging.

I'm really going to have to look into this more.

Bryan Sutton is supernatural, as is Norman Blake who wrote that tune. Here's a more accessible version by a mortal:

Matt_McG · April 2022

It's also worth checking out Molly Tuttle shredding the hell out White Freightliner using the same flat picking technique (and singing at the same time).

Hootsmon · April 2022

how is the 1st pic ex different from the 4th?

Hootsmon · April 2022

Man, she' good! a hundered diferent troy gradys in there

BigPaulie · April 2022

Lewy said:

...The pulse comes from a fairly strict adherence to the principles that you play down beats with a downstroke and up beats with an upstroke....perpetual down up down up down up ... and that means the beat is always emphasised.

Do I foresee a descent into the old "down up down" Vs "down down up" argument?

When I started crosspicking I felt that ""down up down" made more sense. Norman Blake pretty much sticks religiously to "down up down" and his flow and feel are impeccable. There are many more technically proficient pickers out there, but his musicality is unsurpassed IMO.

Recently I have begun to experiment with "down down up" as I can personally get a better flow and evenness although I can't yet achieve the same speed as with "down up down". Tony Rice, whom for many is the pinnacle of acoustic guitar flatpicking, played "down down up" and made regular use of economy picking and other techniques not thought of as belonging in traditional flatpicking.

FWIW I'm currently playing "down down up" when going low to high, and "up down down" when going high to low.

As ever, there are far more than one way to skin a cat.

BigPaulie · April 2022

Matt_McG said:

It's also worth checking out Molly Tuttle shredding the hell out White Freightliner using the same flat picking technique (and singing at the same time).

She is so gifted. What a musician!

I love how she teaches; breaking the tunes down into sensible pieces and almost convincing the student that what she does is accessible. Then you watch her in full flow and put the guitar back on its stand.

BigPaulie · April 2022

Hootsmon said:

how is the 1st pic ex different from the 4th?

Four across moves linearly across 4 adjacent strings from low to high, picking down up down up.

The in and out roll plays over three adjacent strings starting with a downstroke on the middle string of the trio, then playing an upstroke on the lower of the three strings, then a downstroke on the middle string followed by an upstroke on the highest of the three strings.

BigPaulie · April 2022

fretmeister said:

Damn that first vid is banging.

I'm really going to have to look into this more.

If you need some more material, here is Molly giving a great lesson on the usual 3 string "banjo roll".

https://acousticguitar.com/crosspicking-101-a-private-bluegrass-lesson-with-molly-tuttle-video/

Lewy · April 2022

BigPaulie said:

Lewy said:

...The pulse comes from a fairly strict adherence to the principles that you play down beats with a downstroke and up beats with an upstroke....perpetual down up down up down up ... and that means the beat is always emphasised.

Do I foresee a descent into the old "down up down" Vs "down down up" argument?

When I started crosspicking I felt that ""down up down" made more sense. Norman Blake pretty much sticks religiously to "down up down" and his flow and feel are impeccable. There are many more technically proficient pickers out there, but his musicality is unsurpassed IMO.

Recently I have begun to experiment with "down down up" as I can personally get a better flow and evenness although I can't yet achieve the same speed as with "down up down". Tony Rice, whom for many is the pinnacle of acoustic guitar flatpicking, played "down down up" and made regular use of economy picking and other techniques not thought of as belonging in traditional flatpicking.

FWIW I'm currently playing "down down up" when going low to high, and "up down down" when going high to low.

As ever, there are far more than one way to skin a cat.

Nah - for me there's not debate really....they both have very different sounds and feels and the best thing to do is learn both. I struggle with DDU .... to make it sound right the downs have to be rest strokes and I find it hard to do that without introducing huge amounts of tension. I literally can't do DDU and breath at the same time. DUDU not a problem, but it doesn't have "that sound" e.g. the power of George Shuffler or Clarence White.

Both Tony and Wyatt Rice seem to be genetically disposed to ripping out DDU at great speed...it's clearly just how they learned when they were little and their hands have grown doing that movement. When you look at Tony's unorthodox picking, you can usually find it's using that DDU movement for economy. For what it's worth, I see him as the pinnacle of bluegrass guitar as opposed to flatpicking. That will always be a tie between Doc and Norman for me

BigPaulie · April 2022

Lewy said:

BigPaulie said:

Lewy said:

...The pulse comes from a fairly strict adherence to the principles that you play down beats with a downstroke and up beats with an upstroke....perpetual down up down up down up ... and that means the beat is always emphasised.

Do I foresee a descent into the old "down up down" Vs "down down up" argument?

When I started crosspicking I felt that ""down up down" made more sense. Norman Blake pretty much sticks religiously to "down up down" and his flow and feel are impeccable. There are many more technically proficient pickers out there, but his musicality is unsurpassed IMO.

Recently I have begun to experiment with "down down up" as I can personally get a better flow and evenness although I can't yet achieve the same speed as with "down up down". Tony Rice, whom for many is the pinnacle of acoustic guitar flatpicking, played "down down up" and made regular use of economy picking and other techniques not thought of as belonging in traditional flatpicking.

FWIW I'm currently playing "down down up" when going low to high, and "up down down" when going high to low.

As ever, there are far more than one way to skin a cat.

Nah - for me there's not debate really....they both have very different sounds and feels and the best thing to do is learn both. I struggle with DDU .... to make it sound right the downs have to be rest strokes and I find it hard to do that without introducing huge amounts of tension. I literally can't do DDU and breath at the same time. DUDU not a problem, but it doesn't have "that sound" e.g. the power of George Shuffler or Clarence White.

Both Tony and Wyatt Rice seem to be genetically disposed to ripping out DDU at great speed...it's clearly just how they learned when they were little and their hands have grown doing that movement. When you look at Tony's unorthodox picking, you can usually find it's using that DDU movement for economy. For what it's worth, I see him as the pinnacle of bluegrass guitar as opposed to flatpicking. That will always be a tie between Doc and Norman for me

Can't really disagree with any of that.

roberty · April 2022

Matt_McG said:

It's also worth checking out Molly Tuttle shredding the hell out White Freightliner using the same flat picking technique (and singing at the same time).

She has alopecia which has been a hot topic of late https://www.mollytuttlemusic.com/alopeciaareata

She meets up with fans who also have it and they take selfies with their wigs off. It's really nice

Flatpicking is such a cool style, I'm really into it but I haven't learnt it really

BigPaulie · April 2022

roberty said:

Matt_McG said:

It's also worth checking out Molly Tuttle shredding the hell out White Freightliner using the same flat picking technique (and singing at the same time).

She has alopecia which has been a hot topic of late https://www.mollytuttlemusic.com/alopeciaareata

She meets up with fans who also have it and they take selfies with their wigs off. It's really nice

Flatpicking is such a cool style, I'm really into it but I haven't learnt it really

If she were a man with as much talent and charisma as she does, she'd be much more famous.

She is an absolute star in my opinion, and her visibility as someone with alopecia, and all the work she does for it only increases the respect I have for her. Can you tell I'm a fan?

I hope to see her live some day.

roberty · April 2022

@BigPaulie I agree. I love her playing and everything that she's about

Rocker · April 2022

Lewy said:

People tend to think the only way to do something intricate on acoustic is to fingerpick. Not so! The big difference is that flatpicking by its very nature is more linear/monophonic than fingerpicking and whilst you may think that would make it less self contained, it has a fundamental pulse that carries it through and makes it work. That hails directly from it's roots in the fiddle tradition. The pulse comes from a fairly strict adherence to the principles that you play down beats with a downstroke and up beats with an upstroke....perpetual down up down up down up ... and that means the beat is always emphasised.

Those two guys, impressive as they are, have very little actual music to offer. Their playing, on those videos, is really all technique. I would like to hear them playing a tune or two, something that will stick in the memory, something a bit looser and more improvised. They have the talent so let them play something that sounds like it has a start, a middle and an end.

ArchtopDave · April 2022

BigPaulie said:

roberty said:

Matt_McG said:

It's also worth checking out Molly Tuttle shredding the hell out White Freightliner using the same flat picking technique (and singing at the same time).

She has alopecia which has been a hot topic of late https://www.mollytuttlemusic.com/alopeciaareata

She meets up with fans who also have it and they take selfies with their wigs off. It's really nice

Flatpicking is such a cool style, I'm really into it but I haven't learnt it really

If she were a man with as much talent and charisma as she does, she'd be much more famous.

She is an absolute star in my opinion, and her visibility as someone with alopecia, and all the work she does for it only increases the respect I have for her. Can you tell I'm a fan?

I hope to see her live some day.

Nell Bryden developed alopecia quite a few years ago, and wore a wig for several years. However, she decided to discard it something like 5 years ago. She's reasonably tall, and cuts an impressive sight, when you see her gigging.

roberty · April 2022

@ArchtopDave going bald is hard enough for men, right?

Tannin · April 2022

Lewy said:

People tend to think the only way to do something intricate on acoustic is to fingerpick.

Only people who have no clue.

I was (not for the first time here) going to post that same clip that @Matt_McG posted but no need now. She's awesome! But there have been and are many, many other great flatpickers.

(I flatpicked for many years and only switched to fingerpicking two or three years back. I'll probably never go back to flatpicking but that's not because I don't like it, it's just because I'm a much better fingerpicker.)

midiman1962 · April 2022

Interesting video - thanks for sharing

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Good wee flatpicking lesson focusing on rolls and crosspicking.

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