Thumb Position for chords

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

Hi guys

I've become aware of a "thing" I do and I'm not sure it's healthy.

When playing pretty much any barre type chord on the top four strings, e.g.

--7--
--7--
--7--
--9--
-----
----

Or

--10--
--10--
--11--
--12--
-----
-----

I find myself with my thumb lying flat along the back of the neck, running parallel to the strings, and with the big fleshy bit of my thumb snug against the neck.

Am I right in thinking that your thumb should pretty much always be perpendicular to the strings?

I'm not sure how to fix this one tbh. Any tips?

viz · April 2022

Your thumb “should” be not crooked exactly but curved, with the tip, or maximum the pad, touching the neck. The thumb shouldn’t be lying flat like a slug on the back of the neck. But having said that, whatever makes you comfortable.

Mellish · April 2022

You're supposed to play with your thumb (tip to first joint) anchored at the back of the neck, but most of us don't do that because no-one shows us to begin with - we just grab it like a broom handle. So, if the way you're playing isn't causing discomfort, and you can get a good clean sound from your barre chords, carry on doing it that way

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

Mellish said:

You're supposed to play with your thumb (tip to first joint) anchored at the back of the neck, but most of us don't do that because no-one shows us to begin with - we just grab it like a broom handle. So, if the way you're playing isn't causing discomfort, and you can get a good clean sound from your barre chords, carry on doing it that way

Well that's partly why I noticed. I have a habit of muting the g string (when I don't want to) when I play those chords. And then when I focus on getting it to ring, it's uncomfortable. I'm trying to work out if it's uncomfortable because I'm correcting a habit or doing it wrong!

Mellish · April 2022

Try it the way I mentioned, see if it helps any comfort-wise. You may find (with practice) that it will solve discomfort AND help you get a clean sound, too

stickyfiddle · April 2022

I had no idea what I naturally do so I had to pick up a guitar. This is me playing a regular E-shaped G chord across all 6 strings. Pad up the the first joint is touching the neck, and 45-ish degrees angle to the strings. I don't know if it's good or bad but it works.

I don't use barre chords much though, to be fair.

Mellish · April 2022

Yep, that's it. Nicely illustrated

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

When I play a "full" barre my thumb is like that.

its when I only want to play the top few strings, like this:

--10--
--10--
--11--
--12--
-----
-----

That I have problems. And its worse higher up the neck.

stickyfiddle · April 2022

I'm not sure I'd ever call that a barre anyway - I'd hold that like a "Hendrix" thumb-over, only using the thumb to mute the low E and 3rd finger to mute the A

Mellish · April 2022

So a partial barre chord, right? See, if I was doing what you've put there, I'd use index for second string, middle for first, ring for third and pinky on the fourth. It's just the way I've always done it

Mellish · April 2022

But that "thumb over" Sticky mentioned is a neat trick that can bring the 6th string into a chord. First position D chord, for example, thumb over to hold down the 6th string 2nd fret

Roland · April 2022

I guess that I won’t be the only one who had to pick up a guitar and finger a few chords to find out how I play. The answer is that on many occasions I use first finger barre and thumb over shapes interchangeably, even in adjacent lines of the same song. Where I do differentiate is where I need to play incidentals on the upper strings with my 3rd and 4th fingers. They are easier to reach with a first finger barre. Where I want the bass note and the rest of the chord to be held or muted for different lengths of time then I tend to use thumb over because I can move my thumb independently of the fingers.

UnclePsychosis said:

I've become aware of a "thing" I do and I'm not sure it's healthy ... I find myself with my thumb lying flat along the back of the neck, running parallel to the strings, and with the big fleshy bit of my thumb snug against the neck.

Am I right in thinking that your thumb should pretty much always be perpendicular to the strings?

It’s not healthy because it puts more strain on your hand. If your thumb is along the neck then your 3rd and 4th fingers are further from the fretboard, and at an angle which make them more difficult to use. Classical theory says perpendicular is correct, but I find that can sometimes be restricting too. Your fingers have a better chance of positioning cleanly when your thumb is at 12 o’clock. However if you want to apply a partial bend to a note, or vibrato to the chord, or follow the chord with some single notes then it’s easier if your thumb is at an 11 o’clock angle.

sev112 · April 2022

If you pull the body of the guitar into your belly with your right arm, you will find that you can pretty much fret most chords with hardly any thumb pressure, which means it only needs to be where it needs to be for that chord and position

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

I'm getting really fucked off with this now.

I've watched several videos of guitarists playing the same bit from the same song (its the pre-chorus to Holiday in Cambodia) and I can't finger it the way any of them do without it really hurting. If I even attempt the thumb over the top trick I can't make the notes ring out cleanly at all.

Mellish · April 2022

It isn't action height on your guitar that's behind the trouble, is it?

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

The action is OK and tbh its the same on all my guitars.

I think it's a combination of my short stubby fingers (my wife is about four inches shorter than me and has longer fingers) and crappy technique.

Think I need to find myself a teacher to correct some bad habits...

Mellish · April 2022

The thing is not to get discouraged. Don't let it beat you, see it as a challenge and, one day, you'll do it and wonder why you couldn't before. Stick with it and good luck

roberty · April 2022

I play those chords as if I were playing full barre chords, except my first finger mutes the E and A strings. For full barre chords (and these) I squeeze in with the inside edge of the knuckle of my thumb. I think there's more strength this way but it could be a bad habit. For all other situations I use the tip or pad

bertie · April 2022

this has made me "want" to investigate what I do now.................. I do know that I tend not to play traditional E barre chords, cos even now, after 45 years, I struggle with my index finger to "not mute" - I tend to always play F barre, with a wrap over thumb , as in @stickyfiddle ; 2nd pic (and BTW get ye fucking nails cut) dont know why but to me they also sound different........ the F always sounds so much fuller

stickyfiddle · April 2022

@bertie I'm a biter I'm afraid... They're usually quite neat! :P

bertie · April 2022

stickyfiddle said:

@bertie I'm a biter I'm afraid...

sure but what about your nails.................................

bertie · April 2022

it appears that when I do play an E or A barre............... my thumb is a bit more "upright" than @stickyfiddle ; -

octatonic · April 2022

The thumb should move about a bit, really.

I teach students to have their thumb behind their middle finger when playing chords (think 'G clamp').
When playing solos and bending string sis it better to have thumb over so the neck is used as a lever to bend from.

The reality is there is no perfect position because you use your hands to do different things on the neck.

For barre chords I advocate the G clamp approach though.

sev112 · April 2022

A lot of people seem to think that a F chord (or any of the e shape barres up the neck) require one to barre all 6 strings!?
whereas it is much easier to just barre the top E and B, and use the tip of the finger to get the 1st fret on the Low E.

Mellish · April 2022

If the OP is struggling, he's best off seeking the help of someone who can *see* what he's doing and point out any mistakes or "Do it like this" and he can watch...but I'm sure it's easily corrected, so if I were him, I wouldn't worry or get frustrated, I'd seek the help of a teacher

UnclePsychosis · April 2022

Mellish said:

If the OP is struggling, he's best off seeking the help of someone who can *see* what he's doing and point out any mistakes or "Do it like this" and he can watch...but I'm sure it's easily corrected, so if I were him, I wouldn't worry or get frustrated, I'd seek the help of a teacher

Have taken steps to do exactly that.

guitarjack66 · April 2022

sev112 said:

A lot of people seem to think that a F chord (or any of the e shape barres up the neck) require one to barre all 6 strings!?
whereas it is much easier to just barre the top E and B, and use the tip of the finger to get the 1st fret on the Low E.

I find it easier to do a full barre than a first two string partial barre of the B and E string. And my thumb has no chance of draping over the top of the guitar to mute the low E as my hands are too small. Like most things in life I think the answer is 'It's different for different people.'

Mellish · April 2022

@guitarjack66 "It's different for different people". Exactly. It's only wrong if it doesn't work for you

bertie · April 2022

Mellish said:

@guitarjack66 "It's different for different people". Exactly. It's only wrong if it doesn't work for you

have a norman

bertie · April 2022

sev112 said:

A lot of people seem to think that a F chord (or any of the e shape barres up the neck) require one to barre all 6 strings!?
whereas it is much easier to just barre the top E and B, and use the tip of the finger to get the 1st fret on the Low E.

but an F barre and E barre (shape defining not note defining) are two separate things, one required a straight finger across (but not necessarily fretting) all the strings , and the other one doesn't

unless Ive misunderstood what you've written

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Tannin · April 2022

sev112 said:

A lot of people seem to think that a F chord (or any of the e shape barres up the neck) require one to barre all 6 strings!?
whereas it is much easier to just barre the top E and B, and use the tip of the finger to get the 1st fret on the Low E.

Yes. But beware!

I played barre chords like that for many years and it left me with a serious technical defect. I couldn't ever get 7th chords to ring out properly. For example, on a G7: 3 5 3 4 3 3 the 7th (4th string 3rd fret) went flub instead of sounding properly. I used to just play stuff and not worry about it (after all there are other ways to play a G7) but eventually it started bugging me, especially as I could see that it was holding me back from doing other things too.

For once in my life, instead of going at it like a bull at a gate (my usual method) I had the sense to go and a see an actual guitar teacher before I started practicing practicing practicing some dumb blind alley.

Nope - as it turned out - I wasn't doing anything actually wrong, I just had to work on the twin issues of not fretting the barre properly (I'd always played a "lazy barre" as per your suggestion, especially during my 12-string years) and (much more difficult to fix) unintentionally muting the 4th string with my ring finger on the 5th string. (I have moderately large hands and what works for me on the 50mm nut 12-string necks I played for decades doesn't work for me on a standard 44mm 6-string nut. I find narrow necks very difficult.)

Anyway, 12 months later, problem solved. But I had to work very hard to sort it.

Do I still barre only the notes I need? Too right! Never work any harder than you have to is my motto.

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Thumb Position for chords

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