Martin prices - time for a rethink?

DavidR · March 2022

Martin's range for 2022 is extremely desirable with some highly yummy new parlour sized instruments in their currently 'best' range, the Modern Deluxe.

But the prices. Really? In 2018 the then 'best' OM28 (Re-imagined) was £2899. Now the Modern Deluxe OM 28 from the same source is £3,999. And it gets worse.

To focus in a little, I suggest that most serious but not megafunded players aiming for a Martin will go for a Martin something 28. (The 42 and 45 ranges are strikingly beautiful but arguably a lot of the increased cost is for bling - and that's OK if that's what you want.) Anyway, these are the current prices for the 28's. OM 28 £3,999. OO28 (new for this year) £4,195. OO12-28 (new for this year) £4,395. O12-28 (new for this year) £4,395. D28 £3,995.

(I should point out that you can still by the Standard range - often the previous Re-imagined spec. These remain more competitively priced but without Martin's more recent innovations like the LiquidMetal pins, carbon fibre bridge plates and titanium truss rods. Will these 'older' instruments be good enough for you? - very possibly.)

Absolutely top marks to Martin for giving us yet more lovely instruments, but hey, no more price increments for a bit?

harry · March 2022

I used to buy Martin guitars, but after seeing and playing Dowina, Furch, and Eastman etc I get the same quality for a lot less money. Still got my 000-15 and Martin are still making stunning guitars, but each to their own.

bertie · March 2022

"re-think" ? what were you after - Jim Ramsey on Uk guitars for sale on FB has a 000-42 for under £5k

ArchtopDave · March 2022

You have to factor in first that Martin do not manufacture their guitars in the UK, and the Dollar has been steadily strengthening against other currencies for 12 months; additionally there are rising wage costs, and the rising cost of materials used. It all adds up to needing to up the prices of the finished goods.

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

Martin prices are becoming silly, you can now easily buy hand made acoustics and classical guitars built buy a single luthier for quite a bit less than their ''mass produced'' range.

malcolmkindness · March 2022

Although I do own two high end Martins, their prices are very high outside the USA. There are many reasons for this, mostly beyond Martins control.

DavidR · March 2022

ArchtopDave said:

You have to factor in first that Martin do not manufacture their guitars in the UK, and the Dollar has been steadily strengthening against other currencies for 12 months; additionally there are rising wage costs, and the rising cost of materials used. It all adds up to needing to up the prices of the finished goods.

Since 2018 the pound has depreciated 2.27% against the dollar. And the rest I totally agree with Dave. But the UK price for the 'best' OM28 has increased by 37.9% in that timeframe. Would the other factors explain that? And that is before the 2022 pricing for the new 28 range members like the OO12-28 for £4,395. Lovely guitar but how much do you want one?

(Source for forex comparisons - tradingeconomics.com)

jellyroll · March 2022

I see Martin as being more competitively priced at the higher end of their range rather than lower down.

The 000-28 Custom Authentic and D-28 Custom Authentic are both £5k but compare well price-wise with equivalent Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgois models.

At £3k, the standard series is somewhat in no-man’s land in the UK, bring far dearer than Eastman, etc. Having said that the OM-21 is a great guitar and, in my view, worth the money ….although I am something of a Martin fanboy.

Bottom line. If I had £3k to spend on an acoustic, I’d buy an OM-21 (and did).

If I had £5k, I’d buy a Custom Authentic (and did ……twice).

Devil#20 · March 2022

At then end of the day it all comes down to that old Keynesian economics of supply and demand. If it's too much then you don't buy it. Unless you're a professional musician and can recover the cost through performing or you've got too much money then there's more value for money elsewhere I think.

jellyroll · March 2022

DavidR said:

ArchtopDave said:

You have to factor in first that Martin do not manufacture their guitars in the UK, and the Dollar has been steadily strengthening against other currencies for 12 months; additionally there are rising wage costs, and the rising cost of materials used. It all adds up to needing to up the prices of the finished goods.

Since 2018 the pound has depreciated 2.27% against the dollar. And the rest I totally agree with Dave. But the UK price for the 'best' OM28 has increased by 37.9% in that timeframe. Would the other factors explain that? And that is before the 2022 pricing for the new 28 range members like the OO12-28 for £4,395. Lovely guitar but how much do you want one?

(Source for forex comparisons - tradingeconomics.com)

False equivalence. The standard series is £3200 or so for an OM-28. That’s what should be compared to the historic pricing.

The Modern Deluxe is a different product. It doesn’t make sense to compare its price to the historic prices of the Standard Series - an older cheaper product - and conclude that prices have increased dramatically.

artiebear · March 2022

They are not cheap. On the other hand they never were. Back in the late 70's / early 80's they were way harder to find in the UK, and seriously expensive. The difference now is that they are relatively expensive (looked at the Colllings price list lately ? ), but there are, as others have said ,a plethora of serious alternatives. A UK luthier made guitar using woods that would make a Nazareth equivalent look ridiculously expensive are right there to be had.
I still have 4 Martins ( all getting on a bit now and all classic models ), I still love to play them, but looking round the 4 acoustics currently in reach right now in the living room, non of them are Martins.

It's not just Martin though is it ? every maker's pricing has gone up by huge amounts in the last few years.

Tannin · March 2022

The usual excuse offered is that Martins are made in the USA and that American workers are more highly skilled and cost more than foreigners. The reality, of course, is that there are many countries with high skills and high wages, and most of the obvious ones have higher average wages than they pay in the USA. For the love of Mike, Korea has a higher minimum legal wage than the USA.

So it's no because of wages. Or any of those other excuses trotted out by the good ol' boys. It is because that is the price they want to charge. And because that is the price people will pay.

I've never played a Modern Deluxe. Or a Collings for that matter. I generally try to only play things I might possibly buy, so in Martins, that's the Standard Series. I've briefly looked at other Martins below the Standard Series, but no more than that. They were all decent, playable, pleasant instruments, and all priced about 30% over what they were worth.

Come to think of it, that "30% over fair value" rule is about right for the Standard Series too. The difference is that I am prepared to pay the 30% for a D-18 or an OM-28 if that's the guitar I like the best when I'm in buying mode. (Why not? If I'm prepared to spend $3500, $4000 isn't out of the question. Always buy the one you really want!) But I never have. I have pretty consistently whittled my short list down to four or five guitars, with one of those a Standard Series Martin, and equally consistently bought something else.

artiebear · March 2022

Tannin said:

The usual excuse offered is that Martins are made in the USA and that American workers are more highly skilled and cost more than foreigners. The reality, of course, is that there are many countries with high skills and high wages, and most of the obvious ones have higher average wages than they pay in the USA. For the love of Mike, Korea has a higher minimum legal wage than the USA.

So it's no because of wages. Or any of those other excuses trotted out by the good ol' boys. It is because that is the price they want to charge. And because that is the price people will pay.

I've never played a Modern Deluxe. Or a Collings for that matter. I generally try to only play things I might possibly buy, so in Martins, that's the Standard Series. I've briefly looked at other Martins below the Standard Series, but no more than that. They were all decent, playable, pleasant instruments, and all priced about 30% over what they were worth.

Come to think of it, that "30% over fair value" rule is about right for the Standard Series too. The difference is that I am prepared to pay the 30% for a D-18 or an OM-28 if that's the guitar I like the best when I'm in buying mode. (Why not? If I'm prepared to spend $3500, $4000 isn't out of the question. Always buy the one you really want!) But I never have. I have pretty consistently whittled my short list down to four or five guitars, with one of those a Standard Series Martin, and equally consistently bought something else.

Some very good points there @Tannin. This is all about building a brand, then riding upon the desirability of the brand. While I will sometimes get out my old D28 ( did around 600 gigs with it ) or my later ( 21 year old, D41, I can love them for that Martin sound, I would be nuts to believe that there is nothing else out there that cannot do the same thing. Thing is that brand desirability is huge, which means that the manufacturers price is high, the wholesales/distributors price is high and the retailers is often locked into a price ( then plus tax ).

Having known and worked with a number of small shop builders, our conversation has often turned to price against reputation ( quality being the somewhat forgotten factor ). One builder can sell his guitars for sums that many on this forum would find hard to deal with, another has crept up to a fraction, but still a massive amount of cash, of the former, and another who is in the first two's league ( he knows it, they know it, and I definitely know it ) , but hasn't had that marketing magic dust of his contemporaries or , sadly, the golden years of exposure of the other two guys he knows and equals in every way.

That is all still based on a luthier with reputation scenario. Then I look at another three guitars in the living room now.

A Lowden ( used to be a "pro working folkies guitar " to an extent. Now, to me as player, way beyond most USA stuff if we are comparing small factory makers ( this one cost £6500, so definitely beyond the original definition, but bloody brilliant all the same )

A Northwood OO28 12 fret ( englemann / braz ) got three of this Canadian builders guitars, amazing builds, nothing like the price of a similar Martin, but built beautifully.

And maybe, to positively add to you comments, a Yamaha LJ56 Custom ( single luthier built in Japan ), which singly gives the argument to avoiding the headstock and evaluating the guitar. OK, not cheap ( by any definition) but for a guy who owns and plays a lot of stuff, this is extraordinary in every way ( then again after having an deal to play Yamahas in the early 80's, I already know how good they are ).

BTW, I do think standard series Martins are by far the Best Buy, if the aim is to own a Martin ( it is enough for a guitar for life ).

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

artiebear said:

And maybe, to positively add to you comments, a Yamaha LJ56 Custom ( single luthier built in Japan ), which singly gives the argument to avoiding the headstock and evaluating the guitar. OK, not cheap ( by any definition) but for a guy who owns and plays a lot of stuff, this is extraordinary in every way ( then again after having an deal to play Yamahas in the early 80's, I already know how good they are ).

A luthier that I'm talking to about building a classical for me, has suggested I try Yamaha's new classical offerings - the one I have is over 30 years old, I must say it surprised me

DavidR · March 2022

All excellent points. It would be fascinating to ask Martin if their pricing was based on an inability (or not wishing to) increase production, plus the knowledge, since they know their business better than anyone else, that they will sell at these prices.

Devil#20 makes the point that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I agree.

stickyfiddle · March 2022

It’s basic market economics. If you’re selling 100 widgets at $50 each you make $5000 a year.

If you want to make $6000 a year it’s much more profitable to increase price to $60 than to manufacture and sell 120 widgets. If the market can sustain that then it’s a no brainier

CarbonCopy · March 2022

I thought their Standard prices are equally shocking. I bought a new D28 in 2010 for £1769. Now they are £2899 which is a 64% increase.

However, looking at minimum UK wage, it is £9.50 in 2022 up from £5.80 in 2010, which coincidentally also happens to be a 64% increase. I know economics is much more complex than comparing against minimum wage, but I thought it interesting!

Smellyfingers · March 2022

Without knowing any of the specifics of Martin pricing I suspect if someone looks hard enough they may find some bargains amongst their myriad offerings, compared with their competitors, as well as some obvious price scalping.

The nature of Martin Co's comparatively huge operation with regard to high end USA made acoustics, may probably give it significant scale advantages over smaller rivals in the US and elsewher, as well as it's relatively vast store of knowledge.

But it's Caveat Emptor, don't expect a commercial company to have your bank balance as it's main concern.

earwighoney · March 2022

artiebear said:
Some very good points there @Tannin. This is all about building a brand, then riding upon the desirability of the brand. While I will sometimes get out my old D28 ( did around 600 gigs with it ) or my later ( 21 year old, D41, I can love them for that Martin sound, I would be nuts to believe that there is nothing else out there that cannot do the same thing. Thing is that brand desirability is huge, which means that the manufacturers price is high, the wholesales/distributors price is high and the retailers is often locked into a price ( then plus tax ).

Having known and worked with a number of small shop builders, our conversation has often turned to price against reputation ( quality being the somewhat forgotten factor ). One builder can sell his guitars for sums that many on this forum would find hard to deal with, another has crept up to a fraction, but still a massive amount of cash, of the former, and another who is in the first two's league ( he knows it, they know it, and I definitely know it ) , but hasn't had that marketing magic dust of his contemporaries or , sadly, the golden years of exposure of the other two guys he knows and equals in every way.

That is all still based on a luthier with reputation scenario. Then I look at another three guitars in the living room now.

A Lowden ( used to be a "pro working folkies guitar " to an extent. Now, to me as player, way beyond most USA stuff if we are comparing small factory makers ( this one cost £6500, so definitely beyond the original definition, but bloody brilliant all the same )

A Northwood OO28 12 fret ( englemann / braz ) got three of this Canadian builders guitars, amazing builds, nothing like the price of a similar Martin, but built beautifully.

And maybe, to positively add to you comments, a Yamaha LJ56 Custom ( single luthier built in Japan ), which singly gives the argument to avoiding the headstock and evaluating the guitar. OK, not cheap ( by any definition) but for a guy who owns and plays a lot of stuff, this is extraordinary in every way ( then again after having an deal to play Yamahas in the early 80's, I already know how good they are ).

BTW, I do think standard series Martins are by far the Best Buy, if the aim is to own a Martin ( it is enough for a guitar for life ).

Good post.

Regarding the latter, I've spent a bit of time looking at AGF/UMGF and there have been more threads about defective Martins cropping up over the last few years. I'm sure the majority of their guitars are great but I've seen far too many threads about new or newish guitars requiring neck resets for my liking to be convinced buy one, but we are all different.

If I had the funds I'd still buy a Martin, but I'd be more inclined to buy an older model.

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

To be fair to Martin, considering their history and qiality, this is an absolute bargin, I'm seriously thinking of buying two of them. I'm treating myself to a new classical guitar, and have budgeted a good budget for one but honestly Martin's pricing, was perhaps the biggest thing that put me off them. I bought myself a ''cheapie'' - still it was about £2k, to play around with while I looked for the right either guitar or luthier. I'm not joking here but the Martin ones I was looking at, brand new no less, where seriously just silly money, the 3 I looked at where extremely dissapointing instruments given their close to and over £3k price tags, and at that price you expect more from Martin, even if they are mass produced models.

boogieman · March 2022

There are better prices out there if you look for them, especially for end of run models. I bought my OM18 Anthem new from Peach in 2020 for £1800ish. It was a discontinued model and it’s a cracking guitar for the money.

Whether Martin’s are actually “worth” what they’re priced at is a bit moot anyway, they’re “worth” what the punter is willing to pay. I always hankered after a Martin and although a cheaper/lesser known brand might’ve had done just as good a job, only that logo on the headstock was going to scratch the itch. (See also, Gibson, Fender, PRS, etc). Manufacturers know it and will price accordingly till the market won’t stand it.

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

boogieman said:

There are better prices out there if you look for them, especially for end of run models. I bought my OM18 Anthem new from Peach in 2020 for £1800ish. It was a discontinued model and it’s a cracking guitar for the money.

Whether Martin’s are actually “worth” what they’re priced at is a bit moot anyway, they’re “worth” what the punter is willing to pay. I always hankered after a Martin and although a cheaper/lesser known brand might’ve had done just as good a job, only that logo on the headstock was going to scratch the itch. (See also, Gibson, Fender, PRS, etc). Manufacturers know it and will price accordingly till the market won’t stand it.

Everyboby understands that, but eventually you price yourself out of the market, this has happened to and forced the closure and selling off of many guitar brands over the years.

ToneControl · March 2022

CavemanGrogg said:

To be fair to Martin, considering their history and qiality, this is an absolute bargin, I'm seriously thinking of buying two of them. I'm treating myself to a new classical guitar, and have budgeted a good budget for one but honestly Martin's pricing, was perhaps the biggest thing that put me off them. I bought myself a ''cheapie'' - still it was about £2k, to play around with while I looked for the right either guitar or luthier. I'm not joking here but the Martin ones I was looking at, brand new no less, where seriously just silly money, the 3 I looked at where extremely dissapointing instruments given their close to and over £3k price tags, and at that price you expect more from Martin, even if they are mass produced models.

When I was in London about 4-5 years ago, I tried loads of Martins in the distributor's shop
My favourite acoustics at the time were bought used around £2.5k, Bourgeois and Goodall models that would have been around £5k new.
I was up to the £12k mark before I could find Martins that sounded and played as well as my small-workshop boutique instruments

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

ToneControl said:

CavemanGrogg said:

To be fair to Martin, considering their history and qiality, this is an absolute bargin, I'm seriously thinking of buying two of them. I'm treating myself to a new classical guitar, and have budgeted a good budget for one but honestly Martin's pricing, was perhaps the biggest thing that put me off them. I bought myself a ''cheapie'' - still it was about £2k, to play around with while I looked for the right either guitar or luthier. I'm not joking here but the Martin ones I was looking at, brand new no less, where seriously just silly money, the 3 I looked at where extremely dissapointing instruments given their close to and over £3k price tags, and at that price you expect more from Martin, even if they are mass produced models.

When I was in London about 4-5 years ago, I tried loads of Martins in the distributor's shop
My favourite acoustics at the time were bought used around £2.5k, Bourgeois and Goodall models that would have been around £5k new.
I was up to the £12k mark before I could find Martins that sounded and played as well as my small-workshop boutique instruments

You're right, I've been quoted less than £4k from Avalon, and a number of other well known single luthier builders to build a classical out of Cedar and either Brazilian rosewood, or hindurian mahogany, ebony fretboard, fancy rossette and inlays.

Strangefan · March 2022

I wish I could bring my dowina to each one of your houses and leave it with you for a week, I will honestly never pay over 1800 for an acoustic again, it's one of the best sounding guitars I have played and the playability easier than my previous Gibson humming bird and Martin D35, plus totally hand made.
The only reason I would sell it is to get anoher dowina.
European guitars are where its at if you dont care about heritage.

https://imgur.com/a/bdGm6pi

CavemanGrogg · March 2022

Strangefan said:

I wish I could bring my dowina to each one of your houses and leave it with you for a week, I will honestly never pay over 1800 for an acoustic again, it's one of the best sounding guitars I have played and the playability easier than my previous Gibson humming bird and Martin D35, plus totally hand made.
The only reason I would sell it is to get anoher dowina.
European guitars are where its at if you dont care about heritage.

https://imgur.com/a/bdGm6pi

When it comes to classical guitars, all of their heritage is in Europe, not America.

malcolmkindness · March 2022

Strangefan said:

I wish I could bring my dowina to each one of your houses and leave it with you for a week, I will honestly never pay over 1800 for an acoustic again, it's one of the best sounding guitars I have played and the playability easier than my previous Gibson humming bird and Martin D35, plus totally hand made.
The only reason I would sell it is to get anoher dowina.
European guitars are where its at if you dont care about heritage.

https://imgur.com/a/bdGm6pi

Dowina are super guitars for the money and of course, it makes much more economic sense to buy a European or UK made guitar.

Tannin · March 2022

malcolmkindness said:

Dowina are super guitars for the money and of course, it makes much more economic sense to buy a European or UK made guitar

Absolutely right @malcolmkindness ;

Almost two years ago, I wrote the following. I may even have posted it here. The prices are pre-pandemic, and are real. Read them and weep..............

======================================================================================

Suppose an Englishman, an American, and an Australian walk into a bar ... er ... I mean a guitar shop. They will all see the same instruments, but they all buy different ones. The American buys a Martin, a Taylor, or a Gibson. The Englishman takes a Furch home, and the Australian buys Maton or Cole Clark. All three will tell you that their choice is clearly and obviously the best choice. And all three will be right!

When Aaron walks into a shop in LA or Boston with let's say the equivalent of $3500 AUD to spend (about $2550 USD or £1950 ) he is going to compare things like a Martin D-18 and one of the better 3-series Taylors; a Furch Blue or Green from Europe; and a Maton SRS-70 or a Cole Clark Angel 1 from Australia. They all cost around about the same and all five are perfectly good instruments, but the two American guitars are clearly a cut above the other three. Most players would choose the Taylor or the D-18.

But when Bruce walks into a shop in Adelaide or Sydney with that same $3500 to spend (£1950), a D-18 is $500 out of reach: he's looking at Martin's cheaper Road Series or a D-15 or the bottom end of Taylor's 3 range. He's comparing those to any guitar in the Maton catalogue bar custom shop specials (even a Messiah) or to a 2-series Cole Clark plus quite a lot of change. (He hasn't got quite enough for a 3-series Cole Clark.) We are in a whole different class of instruments. Naturally, Bruce will buy the Messiah, or get an Angel 2 or one of the TE Matons and have $900 change. If he shops around a bit he can probably buy *two* SRS-60 or SRS-70 Matons for that $3500. For a Martin or a Gibson guitar he'd be paying more money for a lesser instrument.

And when James from Bristol walks into a shop in London ... but you get the idea already.

I wasted a morning sometime in mid-2020 comparing some three-different-country prices. These are in Australian dollars and include local taxes in Australia (10%) and the UK (20%) but not the USA (because US sales taxes are variable from place to place). These are commonly advertised prices, not the absolute lowest you can negotiate. Note that you can ship a guitar from anywhere to anywhere for about £100. Ship in commercial quantities and it's cheaper again.

Maton SRS-60C London $2355. USA $2480. Perth: $1575.

Maton Messiah: London: $6730. North Carolina: $5695. Hobart: $3500.

Cole Clark Angel 2, Bunya & Blackwood: London: $2990. USA: $2620. Melbourne: $1950.

Martin D-18: London: $4300. North Carolina: $3500. Hobart: $4000.

Taylor 314ce London $3350. USA $2750. Hobart: $2900.

Yamaha A5S: London $2050. USA $1790. Melbourne $1795.

Takamine LTD 2020: London: $4525. USA $3995. Mooloolaba $4600.

Ibanez ADV60 NT: London $1230. New York $1170. Melbourne $1500.

======================================================================================

Tannin · March 2022

I just wasted another morning repeating the exercise. These are March 2022 prices, collected as before by looking for a representative commonly advertised price. This time I've converted everything to UK pounds, and calculated an "import tax" percentage - the amount you pay extra for a guitar from another part of the world. I have deducted national taxes (20% VAT in the UK, 10% GST in Oz, nothing in the USA - but bear it in mind that many US states charge a sales tax, which is a different amount in different states, and is not disclosed in their advertising). As before, it was quite a challenge to find representative identical examples in the different markets. I've tried to go for the most obvious and popular models. I'll start with the US makers.

Martin D-45 Modern Deluxe. US: £5,851, AU: £8663, UK: £8,746. "Import tax" is 48% in AU and 49% in the UK.

Martin D-18. US: £1448, AU: £2027, UK: £2082. Import tax is 40% (AU) and 44% UK.

Martin D-28. US: £1671, AU: £2153, UK: £2496. Import tax is 29% (AU) and 49% (UK).

Martin HD-28. US: £1783, AU: £2497, UK: £2666. Import tax is 40% (AU) and 50%(UK).

Martin LX1. US: £222, AU: £430, UK: £332. Import tax is 93% (AU) and 50% (UK).

Taylor GS Mini Rosewood . US: £362, AU: £491, UK: £449. Import tax is 36% (AU) and 24% (UK).

Taylor 314ce. US: £1114, AU: £1469, UK: £1582. Import tax is 32% (AU) and 42% (UK).

Taylor 814ce. US: £2117, AU: £2786, UK: £2916. Import tax is 32% (AU) and 38% (UK).

Gibson J-45 Standard. US: £1588, AU: £2431, UK: £2082. Import tax is 53% (AU) and 31% (UK).

Gibson SJ-200. US: £2786, AU: £4255, UK: £3666. Import tax is 53% (AU) and 32% (UK).

Guild F-512 Maple. US: £2433, AU: £3492, UK: £3407. Import tax is 44% (AU) and 40% (UK).

A very clear trend: for any of the big-name American brands, we typically pay 30% or 40% over the odds.

Now let's try it with some Australian-made instruments.

Maton Messiah 808. AU: £2026, US: £3022, UK: £3241. Import tax is 49% (US) and 60% (UK).

Maton EBG808TEC. AU: £1469, US: £2191, UK: £1916. Import tax is 49% (US) and 30% (UK).

Maton SRS70C. AU: £1053. US: £1511. Import tax is 43%. (None advertised in the UK that I could find.)

Maton SRS60C. AU: £886. UK: £1079. Import tax is 22%. (None advertised in the US that I could find.)

Maton S60. AU: £607. UK: £912. Import tax is 50%. (Not sold in the US.)

The chaos of pandemic-level demand, pandemic-limited production, batshit-crazy worldwide shipping issues, and wildly varying exchange rates has muddied the waters, but we see a very similar pattern. You pay a lot more for something "exotic" than you do for an equivalent local product.

With prices changing so fast lately (usually in the wrong direction!) it can be very hard to tell which advertised prices are real and which have simply not been updated recently, nevertheless, there is clearly a large Australian guitar "import tax" in operation in the US and the UK, call it about 40% on average. Last time I included some Cole Clark models alongside the Matons. I've left them out for now for two reasons: first, Cole Clark make so many different models that it is hard to find three more-or-less identical units in three different countries. (Compare with, say, Martin, where a D-18 is a D-18 all day long, or Maton where a Messiah is simply a Messiah.) Secondly, there are some very weird advertised Cole Clark prices in the UK at present. On face value there are some downright amazing bargains on offer. Maybe I'm seeing a few old items still in stock at pre-pandemic prices, or maybe it's just that no-one has bothered removing website listing for stuff that was sold sometime last year. Or maybe they really are ultra cheap! (Unlikely.) Anyway, I'm not going to spend hours trying to figure it out, I'll just list the Matons.

It is much harder to work out what is going on in the third direction - i.e., prices of European-made guitars in the US or Australia. Furch guitars are now readily available in Australia (which they were certainly not two years ago) but are still pretty thin on the ground in the US. And like Cole Clark, Furch love to make a bewildering variety of models and finding three-continent matches is hard. Let the one particular Furch Blue variant I pinned down before I got bored and stopped lookingstand for all:

Furch Blue: UK: £917, AU: £1165, US: £1011. Import tax is 27% (AU) and 10% (US).

Of course, Furch is a Czech maker, not from the UK. Chances are you could buy one cheaper again in Prague. So far as I know, none of the other European makers (counting the UK as "European") export in enough volume to make a comparison helpful. There are quite a few who will happily export on an individual basis (e.g., Lakewood, Emerald, many others) but in these cases the price you pay is simply the domestic price less local taxes plus freight and import duties or VAT.

Last time I did this also included some Japanese models. I've left these out this time (a) because they invariably sold for pretty much the same price everywhere once you accounted for exchange rates and local taxes, and (b) because there are horrendous out-of-stocks with Japanese guitars and even if someone quotes a price that doesn't mean anything unless they actually have one to sell you. Oh, and (c) because it's past lunch time, I'm still mucking about on the computer, and I'm over it.

DavidR · March 2022

Really interesting posts Tannin. Comparing the 3 localities, you have to wonder if Martin actually recognise the price differentials experienced by real buyers. They must do.

I suspect they would say that my OP fails to acknowledge the different trading environments.

That being said, buyers in the UK and Oz, and maybe even the US, must be noticing the increasingly top-end pricing of Martin's over a relatively short timeframe.

That's the point I was making really. I'm sure they would say they know what they're doing. It's their business.

I don't join in the QC criticisms. I think they're great. Just wish they were cheaper!

Personally, and separate to basic forex fluctuations and the trading conditions you have so clearly defined, I don't think they will bear too many more above inflation pricing increments in the UK. Not without losing market share. Might be wrong.

crunchman · March 2022

@Tannin has raised some good points.

The caveat to that is that the Martin distributor in the UK is dreadful, and put enormous markups on their guitars. I haven't checked recently, but there was a time when some £2200 Martins in the UK were available at multiple retailers (not just Thomann) on the continent at around £1900.

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Martin prices - time for a rethink?

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