NOW SORTED -Have a hankering for a good budget acoustic - suggestions?

Voxman · November 2021

I'm really more of an electric player but I have a hankering for an acoustic. I have an old Yamaha FG140 that my daughter now has, and a Washburn EA30 Festival electro-acoustic that has a thinner body and so isn't that great pure acoustically.

If I had £300-400 to spend on a second-hand acoustic would that be enough to find a good, resonant acoustic with a good action and decently made? Electrics I know a reasonable bit about, but I'm less knowledgeable on acoustics. What would you acoustic guru's recommend for finger picking stuff. I'm not a great acoustic player but I'd like to get back into it - it would be for this type of playing:

markj · November 2021

I would probably go along the Eastman route.

Voxman · November 2021

markj said:

I would probably go along the Eastman route.

Thanks @markj - Any specific models you could specifically suggest?

BigPaulie · November 2021

At £400 you're in the right ballpark for a used Yamaha LL6.
These are really nice guitars and the newer ones have A.R.E tops which is Yamaha's version of torrefication.
They cover just about any type of music from flatpicking to strumming to finger style.
And once they've undergone the initial depreciation from new seem to hold their value.

Voxman · November 2021

BigPaulie said:

At £400 you're in the right ballpark for a used Yamaha LL6.
These are really nice guitars and the newer ones have A.R.E tops which is Yamaha's version of torrefication.
They cover just about any type of music from flatpicking to strumming to finger style.
And once they've undergone the initial depreciation from new seem to hold their value.

Many thanks for that - just watched a video & it sounds and looks really good with the extra of being able to plug it in too. The ARE treatment sounds really interesting and the 5 ply neck seems to be very stable.

Voxman · November 2021

The LL16M has maple back & sides which might be better & still achievable for £400 used?

BillDL · November 2021

The problem with switching from electric to acoustic is that the action of most acoustics is going to be higher than you are used to, especially if the guitar is set up for fingerpicking that plucks the strings and tends to make them vibrate in a much more vertical way than picking across the strings with a plectrum (there, I used that old fashioned word). In addition, acoustic strings are invariably thicker than electric strings. I would say that a low action should not necessarily be one of your primary considerations when looking for an acoustic. An acceptable action most certainly, but as most electric players have discovered while trying to shave down an acoustic saddle to get a more slinky action, they will very often end up with fret buzz before they get to where they would ideally like it to be. When you look at the holy grail "Martin Specs", the action might feel unacceptably high for somebody transitioning from electric to acoustic.

Decide on your preferred body size and shape.

Jumbo - Very large body with booming sound, but too unweildly for many players.
Dreadnought - The size and shape we are most familiar with. Nice and loud for strumming and picking and easier to hold than a jumbo, but some people still find the body quite large to handle.
Grand Auditorium - Almost as large as a dreadnought, but with a narrower waist. Still fairly loud. Ideal compromise for strumming and picking when combined with comfort.
"Concert" Size - sometimes called "Orchestra" style or "OM" from Martin's way of cataloguing its models. Slightly smaller bodied than the "Auditorium" type but has more pronounced upper and lower bouts with a pinched-in waist. This size and style suits just about anybody. It is much easier to hold than a dreadnought. It may not be as loud or boomy as a dreadnought, but it seems to have a bit more finesse when fingerpicked.
From there on down in body size you have "000", then "00", and then the very narrow and small bodied "Parlour" style, as well as the reduced scale "Baby" models as played by ed Sheeran.

Once you have decided on a shape and style you can look at the woods used. You get a much purer tone from a guitar that has a solid wood top than a laminated one, although there are many exceptions to this "rule". Spruce, cedar, maple and mahogany all have quite different sounds when used for a guitar top. Cedar tends to be used more on classical guitars and higher end "fingerpicking" guitars in the "Concert" or "OM" style than on other styles and shapes.

Although some resonance is created by the sides and back of the guitar, having solid wood for these is less important than having a solid wood top and it keeps the price down. Laminated back and sides are also tougher and less prone to cracks if knocked against something. Again, mahogany, rosewood, walnut, and other woods used for the bodies and sides do sound different, with none necessarily being better than the other.

Unfortunately choosing a 2nd-hand acoustic to match your £300 to £400 budget isn't nearly as easy as making suggestions for a new guitar. If you are willing to accept a lot of dings and scratches you can obviously get a much better quality guitar than if you prefer to buy a guitar in good cosmetic condition. Some of the Tanglewood guitars from the top of their price listings when new can be bought for around your budget and I would urge you to consider that brand while looking, because they are very nice guitars.

Voxman · November 2021

Many thanks @BillDL - lots of good info there. To clarify, and with all appreciation of your kind & detailed response, I'm not a complete acoustic novice in that I do understand the different body shapes and the pros/cons of laminate sides, and the Yamaha LL6 is the right shape I'm after, which is similar to my Yamaha FG140. I have a good friend of mine that is an acoustic folk player and some years back we used to play together, and he has 2 Martin's that I've played a fair bit.

I'm simply just well out of touch with the makes and quality currently available. And, arguably even more important than for electrics, with an acoustic I'm going to have to play it & hear it first so probably won't look to buy used on EBay etc.

I have played acoustic for many years and played in a number of folk clubs but haven't really done much acoustically over the last 7-8 years or so (hopefully my clips here weren't too shabby) so I fully appreciate the action will be higher than on an electric. I also use slightly heavier 'bronze' strings on my acoustics (typically Martin lights 10-47) as compared to 9-42's on my electrics, so of course the action has to be higher to resonate properly, but I still need it low enough for eg jazzy/bluesy stuff too with a pick. Must admit I'm not a fan of Tanglewood - I've played a few and never really got on with them. Having said that, the newer ones might be much improved so I will keep an open mind here.

RevMatt · November 2021

Faith would be worth a look in that price range, they punch above their weight, and there's the Patrick Eggle link ..

Andy79 · November 2021

How about this, good price too

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/215727/yamaha-ll6-electro-acoustic-now-reduced-350#latest

Voxman · November 2021

Andy79 said:

How about this, good price too

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/215727/yamaha-ll6-electro-acoustic-now-reduced-350#latest

Thanks @Andy79 but over 100 miles away from me so sadly not practical.

BigPaulie · November 2021

Voxman said:

The LL16M has maple back & sides which might be better & still achievable for £400 used?

If you can find any iteration of the ll16 for £400 you should jump at it.

proggy · November 2021

Sigma make very good solid top guitars in your price range. If you're looking for a nice guitar for finger style playing, check out their OM size models, they have a slightly wider string spacing for picking, and the smaller bodies make them really comfortable to hold.

Tannin · November 2021

A hundred miles not practical? What a strange thing to say! Oh well, we all have our little ways.

What else can we do in the £400 price range? Second-hand is the way to go, but it is hard to find stuff local to you (and while I reckon you are nuts not to drive 100 miles to pick up a great guitar for a good price, travelling any sort of distance just to try a few random things out - things you may or may not like - is a different matter).

So that leaves new, and new in that price bracket means made somewhere cheap, typically China. The question thus becomes "Which company does a decent job of making cheap stuff in China?", and the obvious answer is "Yamaha". But you might also look at Sigma, Eastman, and one or two others. I notice a lot of variation between individual guitars in this bracket, even more so than there is in (say) the £1500 range models. I think you just have to play them until you find one you like.

RevMatt · November 2021

Tannin said:

A hundred miles not practical? What a strange thing to say!

In theory a 4 hour round trip to see a guitar sounds fun, and there was a time when I would have relished the roadtrip. But I totally get where Voxman is coming from - with a busy and stressful day job and family commitments once the paid work is done 100 miles for a guitar isn't an easy thing to manage.

Voxman · November 2021

RevMatt said:

Tannin said:

A hundred miles not practical? What a strange thing to say!

In theory a 4 hour round trip to see a guitar sounds fun, and there was a time when I would have relished the roadtrip. But I totally get where Voxman is coming from - with a busy and stressful day job and family commitments once the paid work is done 100 miles for a guitar isn't an easy thing to manage.

This!

Andy79 · November 2021

Take the 140 back from your daughter… A shitty move but it’s a great guitar. I bought a ‘69 FG300 for £400. Over the moon ever since

Voxman · November 2021

Andy79 said:

Take the 140 back from your daughter… A shitty move but it’s a great guitar. I bought a ‘69 FG300 for £400. Over the moon ever since

A sound idea sir!

To be honest I don't think she plays it much and a while back she did ask if I wanted it back. But whilst it's a reasonable guitar and about 20 yrs ago I replaced the 3 in line cheap tuners with Schallers, it's action is a tad high and tonally it's a bit bottom end heavy and lacks some top end sparkle. In truth, I'd like something thats more resonant and feels a bit more special that will encourage me to play it.

The more I watch vids and read about the Yamaha LL6, the more I think it could be exactly what I'm looking for, especially as it can be plugged in too.

Mellish · November 2021

Here's a few to look at: Fender FA-125CE, Yamaha FSX800C, Seagull S6, Martin LXK2, Fender Squier Dreadnought

guitarjack66 · November 2021

Tannin said:

A hundred miles not practical? What a strange thing to say! Oh well, we all have our little ways.

What else can we do in the £400 price range? Second-hand is the way to go, but it is hard to find stuff local to you (and while I reckon you are nuts not to drive 100 miles to pick up a great guitar for a good price, travelling any sort of distance just to try a few random things out - things you may or may not like - is a different matter).

So that leaves new, and new in that price bracket means made somewhere cheap, typically China. The question thus becomes "Which company does a decent job of making cheap stuff in China?", and the obvious answer is "Yamaha". But you might also look at Sigma, Eastman, and one or two others. I notice a lot of variation between individual guitars in this bracket, even more so than there is in (say) the £1500 range models. I think you just have to play them until you find one you like.

I know you are based in Australia my friend and 100 miles is basically your next door neighbour over there but travelling 100 miles on UK roads or by public transport is a military operation. Terrible roads and traffic hold ups make even the smallest journey a complete ball ache. I dread to think what its like in London and its surrounds as its bad enough here 'ooop north.'

markj · November 2021

Voxman said:

markj said:

I would probably go along the Eastman route.

Thanks @markj - Any specific models you could specifically suggest?

I had a E1SS that was superb. It featured all solid wood construction using airondack spruce top and mahogany back and sides . It was similarish to a J45. Look at Richards Guitars website he usually has a good choice at various prices.

markj · November 2021

https://rguitars.co.uk/products/eastman-e1d-inc-100-professional-setup-added-value

BigPaulie · November 2021

markj said:

Voxman said:

markj said:

I would probably go along the Eastman route.

Thanks @markj - Any specific models you could specifically suggest?

I had a E1SS that was superb. It featured all solid wood construction using airondack spruce top and mahogany back and sides . It was similarish to a J45. Look at Richards Guitars website he usually has a good choice at various prices.

Wasn't the E1SS a ltd edition that retailed at £799?

For that matter, the E1D is about £550. The OP is looking at a budget of £300-£400.

TheMadMick · November 2021

Why not take a look at the PRS T40E in Acoustics£. I have the A40E and I think it's great but these things are a matter of taste. He's asking £350 in case the headline £400 puts you off.

markj · November 2021

BigPaulie said:

markj said:

Voxman said:

markj said:

I would probably go along the Eastman route.

Thanks @markj - Any specific models you could specifically suggest?

I had a E1SS that was superb. It featured all solid wood construction using airondack spruce top and mahogany back and sides . It was similarish to a J45. Look at Richards Guitars website he usually has a good choice at various prices.

Wasn't the E1SS a ltd edition that retailed at £799?

For that matter, the E1D is about £550. The OP is looking at a budget of £300-£400.

OK.

BillDL · November 2021

Voxman said:

Many thanks @BillDL - lots of good info there. To clarify, and with all appreciation of your kind & detailed response, I'm not a complete acoustic novice in that I do understand the different body shapes and the pros/cons of laminate sides ..... I have a good friend of mine that is an acoustic folk player and some years back we used to play together .... I'm simply just well out of touch with the makes and quality currently available. .....I have played acoustic for many years and played in a number of folk clubs but haven't really done much acoustically over the last 7-8 years or so (hopefully my clips here weren't too shabby)

Damn. I really should have listened to your sound clips first. I saw the thumbnail image showing somebody holding an electric guitar and made a mental point of returning later to listen to them when I wasn't clock-watching, but I didn't realise it was your own clips. The confusion was from your statement in the original question: "I'm not a great acoustic player but I'd like to get back into it - it would be for this type of playing". I beg to differ on the "I'm not a great acoustic player" self-deprecation. You are very good.

I can give a 2nd thumbs up for the Sigma recommendation by @proggy. ;;; I love my Sigma OMTC-1STE-SB+

I think the model coding means: OM style, T?, Cutaway, "1 series", Sitka-Tilia-Electro, Sunburst. Tilia wood appears to be either Lime or Basswood. It is a dark sunburst with white binding on the body and uses their man-made Micarta fretboard material that is actually very nice and feels like ebony. It is "no-frills" in terms of adornments, but is exceptionally well constructed. I really like the wider nut width of 44.45mm. It falls right in the middle of your price range new, but if you go 2nd-hand you will get one of the higher ones in the range and I am sure you wouldn't be disappointed.

One fairly recent purchase which I was very surprised and pleased with was a 2nd hand Fender CF-60CE in natural finish. RRP new was £239. I bought it 2nd-hand through a large dealership in very good condition for £140, but the sound and playability far surpasses even the new RRP price despite being of all laminate construction. I bought this to gift to a friend who had been in hospital with mental health issues and needed to get back into playing. Pity, because I would gladly have kept it for myself. If the quality and sounds of this guitar are anything to go by, I'm sure the Fender acoustics from higher up the price range with solid wood construction will also be surprisingly good.

I originally mentioned Tanglewood guitars because I have recently been seeing some 2nd-hand Tanglewood dreadnoughts selling through a large retailer. They are well specified and represent good value for money if you can get one of the ones from near the upper end of their range in good condition 2nd-hand.

Personally I would never look past Yamaha. A new FG830 and FS830 fall right in the middle of your budget and you would be getting a very good guitar for the money. I have never had any quality control issues with any of the Yamaha guitars I have bought over the years. The FG/FS840 and 850 are still within your budget new, and just about the only difference from the 830 is the body wood. The 840s use maple bodies and spruce tops and the 850s are all mahogany - very different sounding guitars.

DavidR · November 2021

A new Yamaha FG 830.

I have one. Its not for sale. Too pretty and yummy. Great sounding guitar. Only slightly less good than my FG5. Action will/may need attention on new instrument though because, like Martins (with which I am not comparing them), they ship the actions high knowing its easier for us folk to lower them than raise them.

Good luck. Have fun.

Yamaha FG830 Acoustic Guitar, Natural at Gear4music

BGG · November 2021

proggy said:

Sigma make very good solid top guitars in your price range. If you're looking for a nice guitar for finger style playing, check out their OM size models, they have a slightly wider string spacing for picking, and the smaller bodies make them really comfortable to hold.

This ^^^^^
Just recently picked up a Sigma J45 type with hard case for £350 and it's one of the nicest acoustics I've owned.
Brilliant for the price and really inspiring to play.

Heartfeltdawn · November 2021

Eastman PCH1-OM.

I've had Simon & Patrick in the past and various Yamahas going up to around £600 in price. That Eastman is one the best things I've ever purchased. Sperb neck, wider nut, string spacing is perfect for me.

Voxman · November 2021

hi guys - first, thank you so much to everyone for the incredible response and suggestions which is very much appreciated, especially @BigPaulie who steered me to an LL6.

Normally it takes me yonks to deliberate and make a decision. But although I hadn't intended to buy this way, something came up on EBay that just seemed such a good deal, I knew I'd kick myself if I let it slip through my fingers - so I took a view and just pulled the trigger.

It's an immaculate Yamaha LL6RM (2020/2021), non-gloss top, with a brand new hard case (that alone cost the guy £69) that was going for £329 plus £25 delivery. Great comms from the seller who seems like a really nice guy, 100% (398) positive feedback, had a vid of him playing the guitar too. Paypal, EBay guarantee. Described as:

"Fantastic A1 condition, still has film on scratchplate. Limited edition matt finish. Action nice and low and the neck plays very well. New strings (12 PB just fitted) The usual very high build quality from Yamaha. Comes with brand new TGI luxury hard case"

So, hopefully I'm not taking too big a chance - looks gorgeous and the reviews all rave about these guitars - will be wrapped up nice and secure and should get it by 8/11. Fingers crossed it's all good when I open it and play it.

Image 1 - Yamaha LL6RM ARE zero impact pickup with hard case

Image 1 - Yamaha LL6RM ARE zero impact pickup with hard case

Image 8 - Yamaha LL6RM ARE zero impact pickup with hard case

Image 6 - Yamaha LL6RM ARE zero impact pickup with hard case

Image 5 - Yamaha LL6RM ARE zero impact pickup with hard case

Voxman · November 2021

BillDL said:

Voxman said:

Many thanks @BillDL - lots of good info there. To clarify, and with all appreciation of your kind & detailed response, I'm not a complete acoustic novice in that I do understand the different body shapes and the pros/cons of laminate sides ..... I have a good friend of mine that is an acoustic folk player and some years back we used to play together .... I'm simply just well out of touch with the makes and quality currently available. .....I have played acoustic for many years and played in a number of folk clubs but haven't really done much acoustically over the last 7-8 years or so (hopefully my clips here weren't too shabby)

Damn. I really should have listened to your sound clips first. I saw the thumbnail image showing somebody holding an electric guitar and made a mental point of returning later to listen to them when I wasn't clock-watching, but I didn't realise it was your own clips. The confusion was from your statement in the original question: "I'm not a great acoustic player but I'd like to get back into it - it would be for this type of playing". I beg to differ on the "I'm not a great acoustic player" self-deprecation. You are very good.

You're very kind sir, thank you - bit rusty at the moment, but hopefully the new Yam LL6 will encourage me to practice my acoustic chops again!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

NOW SORTED -Have a hankering for a good budget acoustic - suggestions?

Comments