Can you play Fingerstyle on a Dreadnought?

Mellish · October 2021

earwighoney said:

TimmyO said:

Mellish said:

@MichaelWatts. Try a Martin M36. Still a Dread but slimmer waist which you may find gives a better fit, allowing the comfort you seek

It’s not a dread, it’s a 0000

I think the 0000 or Small Jumbo is one of the most under rated body sizes out there.

Oh the Martin M36 is a great guitar. I tried one in GG and was so taken by it that I'd have bought it if I'd had £3k to spare. It's a very comfortable guitar, sits on the lap well. It's gone the Re-imagined way with 1 3/4 nut width which is a bit marmite to some

tomjax · October 2021

Mellish said:
Oh the Martin M36 is a great guitar. I tried one in GG and was so taken by it that I'd have bought it if I'd had £3k to spare. It's a very comfortable guitar, sits on the lap well.

I tried one at a dealer recently too and was also very impressed, lovely guitar. And I was equally tempted but this one had a horrible spray job on the back and was full of spray dust and bits that you could feel in the lacquer. No idea how it got past quality control!

Mellish · October 2021

tomjax said:

Mellish said:
Oh the Martin M36 is a great guitar. I tried one in GG and was so taken by it that I'd have bought it if I'd had £3k to spare. It's a very comfortable guitar, sits on the lap well.

I tried one at a dealer recently too and was also very impressed, lovely guitar. And I was equally tempted but this one had a horrible spray job on the back and was full of spray dust and bits that you could feel in the lacquer. No idea how it got past quality control!

Blimey, that sounds a shocker. Playability OK? Good tone? Still wouldn't want it with that finish though. The one in GG had no issues but at £3k it was too much for me to find comfortably

tomjax · October 2021

Mellish said:

tomjax said:

Mellish said:
Oh the Martin M36 is a great guitar. I tried one in GG and was so taken by it that I'd have bought it if I'd had £3k to spare. It's a very comfortable guitar, sits on the lap well.

I tried one at a dealer recently too and was also very impressed, lovely guitar. And I was equally tempted but this one had a horrible spray job on the back and was full of spray dust and bits that you could feel in the lacquer. No idea how it got past quality control!

Blimey, that sounds a shocker. Playability OK? Good tone? Still wouldn't want it with that finish though. The one in GG had no issues but at £3k it was too much for me to find comfortably

Yes, it played really well and had a lovely balanced tone. Just had a body paint job that was astonishingly bad.

ICBM · October 2021

tomjax said:

Yes, it played really well and had a lovely balanced tone. Just had a body paint job that was astonishingly bad.

Definitely by Martin, or possibly refinished?

Not saying it’s impossible, but I’ve never seen anything like that on a Martin, and from what I do see, their QC is pretty good.

Mellish · October 2021

ICBM said:

tomjax said:

Yes, it played really well and had a lovely balanced tone. Just had a body paint job that was astonishingly bad.

Definitely by Martin, or possibly refinished?

Not saying it’s impossible, but I’ve never seen anything like that on a Martin, and from what I do see, their QC is pretty good.

Good question. I tried a lot of Martins before settling on an HD-28.They varied in playability and tone (that's to be expected) but none had finish issues

tomjax · October 2021

ICBM said:

tomjax said:

Yes, it played really well and had a lovely balanced tone. Just had a body paint job that was astonishingly bad.

Definitely by Martin, or possibly refinished?

Not saying it’s impossible, but I’ve never seen anything like that on a Martin, and from what I do see, their QC is pretty good.

Couldn't say. It was a new guitar at an official dealer but who knows what journey it may have been on.

Mellish · October 2021

Well it COULD have left the Martin factory like that but it would be a rare thing IMHO. I'm a big Martin fan and I must have played over 100 in stores. High action, yes, but never saw a bad finish. You have though

ToneControl · October 2021

I have 3 dreads, and play fingerstyle on all of them
However: I'm over 6 feet tall, and none of them has a narrow nut

The Avalon Americana one sounds great, not as lively as normal Avalons and Lowdens, less overtones, so good for getting a more focused sound with a more classical arrangement I find

The Goodall dread with Adirondack sounds amazing, but only after you thrash it with a pick for a few minutes, or put a ToneRite on it for 10 minutes. Basically Adirondack is very stiff, and doesn't respond as well to fingerpicking until you wake it up, straight after which it sounds great. To be honest, it still sounds better with a pick, it's off the scale with a pick.

The Larrive SD60 is a slope shouldered dread (12 fret), and this is the design I'd recommend trying:
nut is 1 and 7/8 inches (47.6mm), so wider than normal OMs etc
It's extremely responsive played in fingerstyle, often reviewed as a "tone cannon"

Do you still have the D35? are you able to try a tonerite on it to see if it makes fingerstyle work?

So I'd say - try a slope-shoulder wide nut, 12-fret dread
I suspect the 12 fret would be less of an issue for right shoulder movement too.

koss59 · October 2021

I’ve just recently picked up a limited edition 12 fret J45 and I echo the above comments about that being great for finger style. It just seems to respond a bit more with that bridge being further back.

artiebear · October 2021

Two words,.......Michael Hedges, ........another two words.......Ariel Boundaries. = D28

Dreadnought28 · October 2021

Jimbro66 said:

Toms_Dad said:

Davey Graham used to......

I seem to remember Paul Simon did too.

That was very early on. Since the mid 60s he’s generally played smaller bodied guitars and since 1997 the guitar model built for him by Martin, the OM42PS of which he has 7. Also plays small bodied Yamaha guitars and at one point in the 70s a 12 fret Martin Dread. I guess that answers the question as to what he prefers for fingerstyle.

I gigged for 20 years with a Gibson J50. In 1991 I changed to a Taylor 812 which was a life changer at the time. The balanced less bassy sound was a revelation and changed my playing style significantly. I own several dreadnoughts but rarely fingerpick them preferring, these days, 00 or 000-12 or OM size guitars.

Tannin · October 2021

I have never understood the whole "jumbos and dreadnoughts are too big to play comfortably" thing. I'm of average height and own a variety of guitars from a small concert through to a very large jumbo: none of them is harder to play than any of the others so far as body size goes.

(For me string spacing makes a small difference; neck width makes a big difference. The narrow 44mm nut guitars feel marginally easier for the left hand but they are much harder to play accurately than the two with wide necks (48mm and 50mm). That's one of the great things about European guitars: a more playable 46mm nut is pretty much standard.

drofluf · October 2021

Tannin said:

I have never understood the whole "jumbos and dreadnoughts are too big to play comfortably" thing. I'm of average height and own a variety of guitars from a small concert through to a very large jumbo: none of them is harder to play than any of the others so far as body size goes.

For me it’s a matter of the body size as I find I have to stretch my right arm to reach the strings and that gets uncomfortable after a few minutes, especially in the shoulder area.

Tannin · October 2021

This is what I hear from many other people, Drofluf but I don't understand it. The only thing I can think of which might explain it is that perhaps some players hold their wrists more nearly parallel to the strings (forcing the elbow out to the right and downwards) as opposed to a more vertical wrist angle (like a bass player's) which leaves the elbow in a comfortable, natural position, even on a jumbo.

Thinking about that, it strikes me that the horizontal wrist style (to give it a name) is probably better suited to plectrum work, with the semi-vertical position better for fingerpicking.

(Confession: In all my decades of playing, I have never once thought about wrist position and angle. I just do it.)

drofluf · October 2021

I haven’t thought about it either or been taught it which could explain my problem

but I’m happy with my 000 and parlour sized guitars which is what matters.

sev112 · October 2021

I recently traded in my EJ200CE. I am 5ft6 yet I had no trouble playing with it and I guess for a couple of reasons - I think it just fitted perfectly to rest my upper right arm on the upper bout, and hence gave a lot of support for fingerpicking. Secondly I tuned down a semitone for vocals but found after a while I was playing a lot of songs in D with a capo at 2. And that just get really comfortable for me maybe just shortening the neck length for me worked better by coincidence.
never had a prob with the width/thickness of the body

also I’ve a 35 year old fender dreadnought that I had from I was a 9 stone skinny weakling and so I suppose that’s what I learned to use.
ive got a Taylor Grand Audotorium which seemed to be smaller when I tried it than the Epi, but it turns out is same scale length and same nut width but feels completely different

Mellish · October 2021

I'm 6'5" so a Dread is easy for me to get to grips with. Everyone is different, though, different degrees of elasticity and what is easy for some is painful for others after a few minutes. Just stick with the size comfortable for you and that way playing will be the fun it's supposed to be

Kilgore · October 2021

I can play fingerstyle on a dread but usually choose not to. A lot of my playing is noodling with my feet up on the sofa and the guitar on my lap. A smaller bodied guitar is more suitable for this.

ICBM · October 2021

Tannin said:

This is what I hear from many other people, Drofluf but I don't understand it. The only thing I can think of which might explain it is that perhaps some players hold their wrists more nearly parallel to the strings (forcing the elbow out to the right and downwards) as opposed to a more vertical wrist angle (like a bass player's) which leaves the elbow in a comfortable, natural position, even on a jumbo.

Thinking about that, it strikes me that the horizontal wrist style (to give it a name) is probably better suited to plectrum work, with the semi-vertical position better for fingerpicking.

(Confession: In all my decades of playing, I have never once thought about wrist position and angle. I just do it.)

I think that's a good observation. I don't have any problem with a Dreadnought or Jumbo body size despite being pretty short, but I play almost exclusively with my fingers.

ToneControl · October 2021

@MichaelWatts ;
Have you tried a 12 fret slope-shoulder dread?

TimmyO · October 2021

I heard an old Gibson 12 fret round shoulder and it was EPIC

ToneControl · October 2021

ToneControl said:

@MichaelWatts ;;
Have you tried a 12 fret slope-shoulder dread?

oi Michael

please login and reply, you asked us for our opinions, you've not been on here for over 10 days
;-)

MichaelWatts · November 2021

ToneControl said:

ToneControl said:

@MichaelWatts ;;
Have you tried a 12 fret slope-shoulder dread?

oi Michael

please login and reply, you asked us for our opinions, you've not been on here for over 10 days
;-)

Yes that's very true... sadly I was ill which has been a bit eventful... back now though!

All interesting replies - definitely agree with the wider-neck 12 fret dread approach, it's certainly worked for me over the years

bertie · November 2021

hmmm some odd comments on here - I especially dont get, why a few dont understand that for some, smaller bodied guitars are more comfortable to play than larger ones ? Assuming we're talking about sitting, not standing with a strap (which I find odd for any acoustic)
Ive owned most body sizes along the 45+ years and find - especially now with elbow issues - that smaller are more comfortable, comfortable at the body/picking hand
I would concur with them tho, body size makes no discernible "impact/difference" at the neck and nothing to do with body size/shape had any impact on whether you're strumming/fingerpicking/flat picking - neck shape, fretboard width and string spacing are the key factors here surely ?

ICBM · November 2021

bertie said:

hmmm some odd comments on here - I especially dont get, why a few dont understand that for some, smaller bodied guitars are more comfortable to play than larger ones ? Assuming we're talking about sitting, not standing with a strap (which I find odd for any acoustic)
Ive owned most body sizes along the 45+ years and find - especially now with elbow issues - that smaller are more comfortable, comfortable at the body/picking hand
I would concur with them tho, body size makes no discernible "impact/difference" at the neck and nothing to do with body size/shape had any impact on whether you're strumming/fingerpicking/flat picking - neck shape, fretboard width and string spacing are the key factors here surely ?

I think you've got it the wrong way round

. I certainly understand that for some people, smaller body sizes are more comfortable.

But that doesn't mean that it is so for everyone, and for some of us - even those of us who aren't tall - it makes no difference, and we find dreadnoughts and jumbos just fine, or even *more* comfortable. I also mostly play sitting down. I have a knackered left elbow too! I actually find small guitars a bit awkward, parlour sizes especially.

Neck shape, fingerboard width and string spacing are certainly important factors for me - I don't like any of them to be too big, and for some reason it seems to be more common to find wider necks with smaller bodies. I had a really nice Martin OM-21, which sounded great and was also comfortable, but I couldn't get on with the neck size. I find my Gibson Dove (dreadnought) much easier to play.

We're all different...

bertie · November 2021

ICBM said:

I think you've got it the wrong way round . I

wouldnt be the first time !!! you know me !! LOL

both my elbows are buggered, its the right one that impacted body size "changes" I snapped my biceps tendon off, had to have it re engineered and attached with a metal pin - that severely impacted what was and wasnt comfortable.
My left elbow had a tendon debridement and repair - but hasnt affected me so much, oddly , but I know have dupuytrens on the middle and ring finger of my left hand, which at the moment isnt too bad.......but I know without treatment it will turn to trigger finger

but back on topic...................yeah we're all different - and TBH I just dont like dreads

LOL

ICBM · November 2021

bertie said:

both my elbows are buggered, its the right one that impacted body size "changes" I snapped my biceps tendon off, had to have it re engineered and attached with a metal pin - that severely impacted what was and wasnt comfortable.
My left elbow had a tendon debridement and repair - but hasnt affected me so much, oddly

I can understand that. I actually like the bigger body sizes because my right arm seems to naturally hang in the right place over the top when I'm playing sitting down, so I imagine if your elbow is causing trouble it could affect that. I also like the neck to be a bit higher up, which helps my left-arm position - a smaller guitar has the neck lower down because the body is narrower. I'm probably playing wrong, but I prefer to have the neck roughly horizontal, not angled up like a classical guitarist would - apart from when I'm trying to play a classical

.

For what it's worth I also find Telecasters more comfortable than Strats to play sitting down! The squarer body edges make it stay put, whereas a Strat tends to try to slide downwards and outwards.

bertie · November 2021

@ICBM ;; - yep thats it, I also find LP a real PITA sitting down, in fact I think ive said this before - ad nauseum - I much prefer to stand for leccys and sit for acoustics, and hate standing for acoustics and playing leccy's sitting, "awkward" - they're not as balanced as an acoustic.........and as I say an LP is just, well, meh

Dominic · November 2021

ICBM said:

bertie said:

both my elbows are buggered, its the right one that impacted body size "changes" I snapped my biceps tendon off, had to have it re engineered and attached with a metal pin - that severely impacted what was and wasnt comfortable.
My left elbow had a tendon debridement and repair - but hasnt affected me so much, oddly

I can understand that. I actually like the bigger body sizes because my right arm seems to naturally hang in the right place over the top when I'm playing sitting down, so I imagine if your elbow is causing trouble it could affect that. I also like the neck to be a bit higher up, which helps my left-arm position - a smaller guitar has the neck lower down because the body is narrower. I'm probably playing wrong, but I prefer to have the neck roughly horizontal, not angled up like a classical guitarist would - apart from when I'm trying to play a classical .

For what it's worth I also find Telecasters more comfortable than Strats to play sitting down! The squarer body edges make it stay put, whereas a Strat tends to try to slide downwards and outwards.

I know exactly what you mean ...........bizarrely it also about what trousers you are wearing !
Some have less friction resistance and the guitar slides away ( sweat pants are pretty awful for this but don't get me started on the Lycra ! )

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Can you play Fingerstyle on a Dreadnought?

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