Is My Boss DS-1 Modified?

gubble · September 2013

Hello - I purchased a Boss DS-1 from ebay for the bargain price of £15.

I've owned a couple of them before and sold them on as never really liked them, but when this one appeared on my radar at a cheap price i decided to have it on the basis that we should all really own a DS-1.

Anyway a few months after buying it I finally got round to plugging it and trying it out. It doesn't sound much like a DS-1 at all. In fact it sounds really good. It feels like it has more midrange and isn't as harsh sounding as the others i've owned. It also works really well as a boost. I've tried it through a variety of amps and sounds great with each of them.

So the questions - how can I tell if it's modded? It's a Taiwan model and has a few chips here and there on the paintwork but looks 100% stock as far as I can tell.

stickyfiddle · September 2013

open it up, take a pic of the component side of the circuit board and we'll be able to tell you

It might've had the clipping diodes changed and/or a new chip installed. Those are the obvious mods. My DS1 has both and sounds awesome

ICBM · September 2013

When was it made, any idea? I have wondered if the Taiwanese ones have changed at some point.

ROOG · September 2013

Hi Stickyfiddle, I have an 'unloved ebay' SD-1 which sees little use, I'd be interested in modding it, can you tell us what mods you recommend please?

stickyfiddle · September 2013

@ROOG ;

Mine has a diode switch, which swaps between some combination of regular diodes and LEDs for clipping. One side is diodes, one side LEDs and the middle setting is both I think. It also has a new chip - an OPA2134PA according to the markings on it. It needs an adaptor to swap in a regular square-shaped chip in place of the stock linear one.

That stuff combine to make it less fizzy, more amp-like and generally fatter and more useful, so I'm told. That said it's been years since I used a stock DS1, so I can't say exactly how big an effect the mods have!

EDIT: That's assuming your post is a typo and you mean DS1. I hae no idea about SD1 mods!

ROOG · September 2013

@stickyfiddle

When I have a moment I'll take a look inside.

I can see that the diode swap would have an effect, and also how capacitor changes could, I'm not so sure about the amp though, I recall a recent vid made for or by Visual sound I think which seemed to dispel the value of op amp "upgrade".

Open to ideas though, provided it doesn't cost too much!

stickyfiddle · September 2013

ROOG said:

@stickyfiddle
When I have a moment I'll take a look inside.
I can see that the diode swap would have an effect, and also how capacitor changes could, I'm not so sure about the amp though, I recall a recent vid made for or by Visual sound I think which seemed to dispel the value of op amp "upgrade".
Open to ideas though, provided it doesn't cost too much!

Yeh, I've seen that same vid. It may well be that it makes little difference. I bought the pedal already modded so no idea how much each mod affects it in real-terms. I have a Rat kit knocking around somewhere that includes the "proper" chip. I'll be interested to compare that to my regular Rat2 when I get it built.

ICBM · September 2013

ROOG said:
I can see that the diode swap would have an effect, and also how capacitor changes could, I'm not so sure about the amp though, I recall a recent vid made for or by Visual sound I think which seemed to dispel the value of op amp "upgrade".

That's because it's a *downgrade* that you want

.

Something like a JRC4558D is actually a really crap op-amp, from a proper audio performance point of view. That's why they sound good - in particular (if I remember correctly) their frequency response is very gain-dependent due to having a poor slew rate, so as you turn up the gain the top-end is progressively smoothed off compared to the mids, a little bit like a valve amp... hence they sound warmer and more natural.

Sporky · September 2013

I went through a whole load of op-amos while pedal building, and they do indeed sound different. I got as far as a list of "OK" and "not OK" and that was about it.

ROOG · September 2013

ICBM said:

ROOG said:
I can see that the diode swap would have an effect, and also how capacitor changes could, I'm not so sure about the amp though, I recall a recent vid made for or by Visual sound I think which seemed to dispel the value of op amp "upgrade".

That's because it's a *downgrade* that you want .

Something like a JRC4558D is actually a really crap op-amp, from a proper audio performance point of view. That's why they sound good - in particular (if I remember correctly) their frequency response is very gain-dependent due to having a poor slew rate, so as you turn up the gain the top-end is progressively smoothed off compared to the mids, a little bit like a valve amp... hence they sound warmer and more natural.

@ICBM,

I should have realised that, coming from a 'hifi' back ground I quickly realised that most things in the analogue guitar world are not quite 'conformist'!

How does the old 741 fare in this system of downgrade-ness?

ICBM · September 2013

ROOG said:
How does the old 741 fare in this system of downgrade-ness?

It's even worse... ie sounds great too

. It's one of the most primitive op-amps.

Used in the original MXR Distortion+ if I remember... which sound better than the reissues, so it's likely that the 741 has been upgraded at some point, if they're still using it.

ROOG · September 2013

Oh good, I'm sure I've got some old ones kicking around.

ICBM · September 2013

I have been known to salvage old JRC4558s from 80s Japanese hi-fi equipment etc - I use them to upgrade Tube Screamers. They really do sound slightly better than the modern 4558s - although ironically the difference is only really noticeable with the pedal distortion setting up high, which is the opposite from how most people who want to upgrade their Tube Screamer want to use them!

ROOG · September 2013

@ICBM

As a kid I used to salvage parts from old computer pcbs, probably scrapped mainframes, germanium transistors, diodes, capacitors, etc until I realised that their spec was rubbish compared to the new silicon stuff which cost very little anyway.

Threw all that stuff out, only recently wished I kept the trannies, in those days, (60's I assume), they even left a reasonable length of leg on the device so that you could reuse them!

There was a street in Bristol which had at least three good shops brimming with salvaged electronics stuff, including boxes and boxes of valves, bet that all got skipped too.

gubble · September 2013

Hi

I've attached a couple of pics of the board - not sure if you can tell but i didn't want to prise it out too far.

Looks 100% stock to me - which doesn't really explain why it sounds so good - might have to a/b it with another DS-1

steamabacus · September 2013

This might answer some questions ....http://www.stompboxzone.com/wiki/index.php?title=DS-1_Distortion

Stompboxzone is the successor to the BossArea forum after it died (sound familiar?). If you post some pics there with a serial number, you'll likely get much learned advice from the resident Boss geeks.

gubble · September 2013

Aha thank you for the links. Managed to date it using the label and some other bits and pieces to 1996.

Not a clue why it sounds so good then, maybe my ears have learned to appreciate it and use it well?

ROOG · September 2013

Thanks Gubble, I shall be having a look in side mine this week end, I have no idea of its age having bought it used. Useful site, steamabacus. Cheers both.

ICBM · September 2013

gubble said:
I've attached a couple of pics of the board - not sure if you can tell but i didn't want to prise it out too far.
Looks 100% stock to me - which doesn't really explain why it sounds so good - might have to a/b it with another DS-1

Yes, that looks totally stock to me.

It sounds so good because it's a DS-1

. One of the most unfairly maligned pedals ever. It is true that they seem to vary a bit, and they don't play nice with some amps, but by and large all the versions sound good.

There was an interesting demo video someone posted a while back of a MIJ vs MIT, and they sounded close to identical. My old MIJ one really sounded noticeably different from a MIT one I compared it to though, hence why I wonder if they changed the circuit at some point(s) in the production. There are definite differences in some of the published schematics (apart from just the ACA/PSA adaptor change), but I don't know if they're either accurate or may be date-dependent.

mike_l · September 2013

Funnily, and I don't want an argument with ICBM, but the DS-1 I had sounded really fizzy, and not at all nice. But then I've found that with pretty much all Boss Distortion pedals.

I'm liking the SD-1 and SD-2 overdrive pedals though

stickyfiddle · September 2013

Yeh, defintely stock. Don't sweat it- if it sounds good it *is* good.

ICBM · September 2013

mike_l said:

Funnily, and I don't want an argument with ICBM, but the DS-1 I had sounded really fizzy, and not at all nice. But then I've found that with pretty much all Boss Distortion pedals.

I'm liking the SD-1 and SD-2 overdrive pedals though

Personal preference!

I find the SD-1 in particular far too boxy and nasal into a clean amp - it's great into an overdriven, scooped-sounding amp, but I would definitely describe the actual basic tone as not at all nice!

I agree that the DS-1 has a very narrow window of good tone between mud and fizz - but it is there (with most amps - there are some it doesn't like), and it has a really good open, aggressive sound.

If I had to choose one or the other I'd have the DS-1 every time. But actually I like the DF-2 Super Distortion & Feedbacker even better... than any other dirt pedal

. (Even the Rat!)

ICBM · September 2013

Forgot to say... they sound fantastic together as well, SD-1 into DS-1. I also like the OS-2 Overdrive/Distortion - although I think it's not one of the 'greats' like the SD-1 and the DS-1, you can get some interesting layered sounds since the two parts are in parallel, which sounds very different from stacking them in series. It's also the pedal that taught me that (to my surprise at the time) I prefer distortion to overdrive for getting an 'amp-like' drive sound.

mike_l · September 2013

ICBM said:

personal preference!

I find the SD-1 in particular far too boxy and nasal into a clean amp - it's great into an overdriven, scooped-sounding amp, but I would definitely describe the actual basic tone as not at all nice!

I'm getting a really nice heavy tone from mySD-1 into my little Marshall VS-30* with both my Jackson and my Charvel.

Admittedly a little "boxy", but I'd put that down to the amp, as with the DSL (and Photek's Blackstar) it's not boxy. I also like it with a touch of chorus....

*Edit - set cleaner than a clean thing

ICBM · September 2013

I think we have different ideas of what "buzzy", "boxy" and "heavy" are

.

Which is fine

.

But adding chorus to it is definitely not fine :P.

mike_l · September 2013

ICBM said:

But adding chorus to it is definitely not fine :P.

NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

(

Cirrus · September 2013

In terms of sound quality I've always put the DS-1 about on a par with a Proco Rat - nothing "amp like", "touch sensitive" or anything buzz wordy about them, they're attitude pedals and you either like that or you don't.

(not that they sound similar...)

mike_l · September 2013

mike_l said:

ICBM said:

personal preference!

I find the SD-1 in particular far too boxy and nasal into a clean amp - it's great into an overdriven, scooped-sounding amp, but I would definitely describe the actual basic tone as not at all nice!

I should say I've been happy with the sounds at home/bedroom volume, and not within a band context. BTW I've put the drive and tone levels to max

ICBM · September 2013

mike_l said:
I should say I've been happy with the sounds at home/bedroom volume, and not within a band context. BTW I've put the drive and tone levels to max

Aaargh my ears!

To me that's unbelievable horrid - boxy and harsh but with no real top-end. The SD-1 does not have actual top-end, just upper mud

. Then add chorus and you're right into late-80s hair metal... noooooooooooo

.

There certainly is a way to get a great heavy sound out of one though - run it into a Mesa Dual Rectifier on the Modern High Gain channel :P.

Cirrus said:

In terms of sound quality I've always put the DS-1 about on a par with a Proco Rat - nothing "amp like", "touch sensitive" or anything buzz wordy about them

Don't agree. The DS-1 can sound very like a Marshall amp, if you set it right. Ask Joe Satriani, he used to use a DS-1 into the clean channel of a Marshall 6100 Anniversary amp exclusively for his distorted sounds. Not touch sensitive, no... but then neither is a Marshall really - not compared to the amps people who like touch-sensitivity like, anyway.

monquixote · September 2013

I think some of the reason you get such vastly different opinions is that many pedals (especially the DS1) are exceptionally amp dependent.

Into my old Blackstar with a smidge of drive it was like Randy crossed with Satch epic shred sillyness. Into the pro reverb I replaced the Blackstar with it sounded like fizzy piss whatever I did.

mike_l · September 2013

ICBM said:

mike_l said:
I should say I've been happy with the sounds at home/bedroom volume, and not within a band context. BTW I've put the drive and tone levels to max

Aaargh my ears!

To me that's unbelievable horrid - boxy and harsh but with no real top-end. The SD-1 does not have actual top-end, just upper mud . Then add chorus and you're right into late-80s hair metal... noooooooooooo .

I agree that set-up sounds awesomes.........;)

I will say both the Jackson and the Charvel have a quite bright tone, and punchy pup's. So in the situation I have , and to my ears (and I love 80's metal) it's great. I don't know I'd necessarily want to use that set-up for gigging, but for a bit of home pracise/noodling it's (for me at least) great......

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree..........

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