Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused).
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Subscribe to our Patreon, and get image uploads with no ads on the site!
Base theme by DesignModo & ported to Powered by Vanilla by Chris Ireland, modified by the "theFB" team.
Comments
I did look in to hydrogen cells the last time this come up and it is a great solution for sited vehicles like buses it's not so great for personally owned cars. Plus you need fossil fuel to make hydrogen cheaply and the process contributes to global warming. Using electrolysis doesn't but that;s expensive at the moment.
I don's agree with your battery statement, my 9 year old laptop is on it;s original battery - the very same 1856 cells used in a Tesla battery. The construction is very different from a phone battery which is basically a Lipo sandwich with no individual control or vote out of bad or poor performing cells.
Who knows what;s gonna happen but if I had any money to invest I would invest in Tesla but would expect a long and rocky ride not a quick profit.
If you try to second guess a bubble, you'll still be in it when it pops.
If you're happy with you're gain, take it and put it somewhere else. Never regret a gain that comes from hidesight.
There are a lot of bubbles at the moment.
Tesla will soon get the software to a point where it can transition from driver assistance to full safe driverless automation. You will call your car via your phone to come and pick you up and take you to your location without any human intervention reliably and safely.
Once the driverless genie is out of the bottle then it's growth will be exponential.
How exactly is an autotesla supposed to behave when an asshole hauling cooking oil barrels behind their c class Mercedes swerves in front of you as you careen at 90mph on the middle lane in the Autobhan. Does it swerve itself into the front of the incoming left lane Audi or does it slam on its brakes causing the polish lorry who decided to overtake behind you to L slide? Does It do some combination of both as the situation evolves? Can it detect the loose bus wheel cover dancing across the lanes in front of you? Are you going to trust your life, and your family’s to Silicon Valley tech vanity projects? Why are pilots still landing planes?
https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/11880/
Tell me something that Tesla has that other companies don't have
"As I see it, Tesla currently does at least four things better than all the auto makers:
1. It develops cars as it would a software product.
Tesla builds cars by developing software on unique hardware, much in the way Apple develops the iPhone or Microsoft leverages Intel chips and Dell PCs. This enables the company to improve its cars’ software functionality every few weeks. This is in sharp contrast to the traditional auto industry model where the product is the same for as long as you drive it.
With fewer parts, the total cost of Tesla ownership is significantly lower than an internal combustion vehicle. There’s no need for expensive oil changes, tune ups, replacing mufflers, and the like. The automakers, who derive significant profitability from their service businesses, know this.
2. It simplifies the buying process, putting the consumer in control.
Tesla doesn’t advertise in the Sunday newspaper or put ads on the radio. Instead is uses the classic software “inbound” sales model: They know consumers are smart and will find them. They understand the buyers’ journey very well.
Buying a Tesla is relatively simple: You go online, pick a model, add your features, place your deposit, and schedule pickup. Done. The last time I bought a car from a well-known Japanese automaker, the buying process was miserable from start to finish. I had to talk to a sales rep who would not give me a straight price and kept scurrying back to a manager, who wrote down successive new numbers before we came to a deal. When I picked up the car, the salesperson begged me to give him a 10 on the Net Promoter Score survey so he could get his bonus. I much prefer controlling the experience myself.
3. It leverages its prowess in battery technology to minimize the total cost of ownership over the vehicle’s lifetime.
Tesla’s battery-powered vehicles are significantly simpler than their internal combustion competitors. By some estimates they have significantly fewer parts per vehicle — around 20 — versus the 2,000 in internal combustion engines. This simplicity dramatically reduces the consumers total cost of ownership. Tesla has recently acquired battery manufacturing companies and will incorporate new kinds of battery-related technologies into its vehicles, which could further reduce cost of ownership. While other automakers are also rushing to acquire the right electric battery expertise, they will still be playing catch up as this market grows.
4. It attaches itself to the predominant market trend of the day — going green to reduce global warming.
From a marketing point of view, Tesla already has a big advantage in some categories. Who wouldn’t want to own a car that creates no pollution, eliminates visits to gas stations, and is truly green? Other automakers are going to be playing catch up on this issue for a long time.
Given this situation, what is the auto industry to do? Traditional car makers will be offering a growing range of electric vehicles in 2020 — but they aren’t necessarily software cars. They are often the cars you’re used to, fitted with electric motors.
To be sure, there are security risks with software cars, as with any kind of connectivity. But Tesla could expand its leadership role by modeling how to manage those risks effectively.
Traditional automakers must now imagine how to become software companies, which, given how far behind they are, means they will have to do what legacy software companies do when startups disrupt their core markets — they buy competitors to consolidate the market. We should watch for this activity, because it is likely about to start in earnest."
and VW CEO takes them seriously:
https://electrek.co/2019/10/28/tesla-serious-competitor-vw-ceo-as-defends-electric-automaker/
Personally, I'm excited but the innovation but I have no real care for whether the Tesla stock price is overcooked or correctly valued, they are an industry disruptor and that's a good thing. Whether they can be anything other than that is the speculation and only time will tell. Someone needs to disrupt the energy sector, maybe they can do that as well.
My next car purchase is likely to be an EV though, my retirement car, when my 4 year old diesel Citroen C4 Picasso reaches the end of the road or is forced off it by regulation, so I follow the EV evolution with great interest over the coming few years.
most of the other car makers are making EVs too now
Best selling EV is from Nissan, not Tesla
https://www.auto123.com/en/news/best-selling-electric-cars-world-nissan-leaf-tesla-model-s/65617/
This from Nov 2019, pre COVID:
"The automaker said its net income fell 54.8 percent in the last quarter, to 59 billion yen, or about $540 million, from the same time last year. Its revenue fell 6.6 percent in the same period.
Nissan also reduced its profit forecast for the fiscal year that will end in March by 35 percent, to ¥110 billion. Vehicle sales, too, are expected to trail previous expectations by more than 5 percent, it said. The full-year dividend, which had been projected at ¥40 per share, could be revised, Nissan said, “following internal discussion.”
With regards the Leaf, it's an ugly car and I wouldn't buy one.
I'm pointing out that Tesla does not have a unique product, and is not the market leader
So Nissan had reduced profits, whereas Tesla would have made a loss (again) if it were not for state subsidies (regulatory credits, which it sells)
To be fair, I test drove a £100k tesla, and the drive and interior were like a BMW 3 series, nothing special
My wealthy friend prefers a Jag v8 to drive, as do many other high-end drivers, so Tesla aren't doing well with the image and driving side of it. We already know their manufacturing capability is embarassingly awful, hence the low sales and lack of profits
https://stockdividendscreener.com/auto-manufacturers/gm-and-tesla-automotive-revenue-and-gross-margin-comparison/
"As seen from its historical results, Tesla has the capability of surpassing the results of GM. If history repeats itself, Tesla will eventually achieve a gross margin that will be higher than its competitor when the company reaches the needed sales volume.
Despite additional costs of running retail stores, Tesla can successfully achieve the level of gross margin which is the same as General Motors.
Therefore, the valuation of over $100 billion in market capitalization that investors have put on Tesla as of this article is written is more or less justified judging from its growth potential in the future."
Analysis can make the numbers look however it wants. I still think Tesla is an exciting innovator and the stock price will go up further in the short term but I wouldn't be betting on the long term.@danny1969 @crunchman - I've posted this company before, I think they are truly inspirational and imo the way transport thinking should be going, rather than the Tesla-type/traditional manufacturers direction which is too locked into historical methodology. The site and company, as well as the vehicles, are interesting generally but they have a short piece on Hydrogen vs Batteries in the Points of View section. Their approach is it's the wrong question to be asking and we should be organising solutions around different needs/priorities etc. To link it to OP's question this is a very different approach to trying to maximise share value and returns to shareholders which you could say is inherently flawed when it comes to sustainability and the environment. I don't want to start an argument it's just personally I find the thinking interesting (I hope you will too, I've got a feeling they adopt a different kind of company ownership etc) and in the main gives me hope for the future.
https://www.riversimple.com
The short sellers that haven't yet caved in with huge losses must be losing daily on the mounting charges and sweating profusely.
https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-stock-split-heres-what-that-means-51597182351 ;
Aswath Damodaran, professor of finance at NYU, suggests that traditional market cap measures don't necessarily apply to Tech stocks and suggests staying with the momentum:
Tesla stock is up 68.8% since @ToneControl asked if it was time to sell Tesla back on July 28th following advice from "top rated analyst for 18 years" Toni Sacconaghi. From the original article "He left his price target unchanged at $900 a share". Well Toni may want to revisit his price target as it now effectively trading at $2,491 per share (pre-split value)!
Legendary short seller Jim Chanos is still holding on to his view that Tesla stock should be shorted. I hope he's got deep pockets to cover his position!
The chap that puts these Tesla videos together is a huge Tesla Fanboi but the clips of Jim Chanos softening position on his Tesla short is notable.
"it really is astonishing how little the major OEMs have accomplished"
But some day they will catch up and this rally will ease...or will it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDLsg46t_xw
I've learned that investing your real savings feels very different to being an observer
"Momentum" is a euphemism for a bubble
You know it's a bubble for Tesla, everyone agrees, even Musk, so the only logical reason to invest is because you think you can ride it upwards and jump off before it bursts
Trouble is, markets go up the stairs and down the lift shaft
https://balentine.com/insights/blog/markets-take-the-stairs-up-and-the-elevator-down/
how would/will you get your life savings out when the share you bought is 60% down and still dropping?
All I've learned from investing in 2020 is to stick with my original long term retirement wealth building plan, stay invested and keep adding more money each month, The market fell in March/April, I was down over 30% but did nothing and now a few months later it's recovered and more. It's a completely boring strategy that works.
Also, I've learned that"market experts" are simply speculators that make a lot of noise and are full of wind and hot air whether they be calling for a stock to be shorted or the next big thing. The stock market has a lot of noise and guff surrounding it which is good entertainment for CNBC and fun to watch but that's all.
Feedback
Investment in the long-term future of industry creates wealth - short-term speculation on the future values of shares does not, and can sometimes have a catastrophic impact on the genuine investors.
"Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski
"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson
I invest through carefully chosen mutual funds and take a great interest in what in the portfolio. One of my investments, via part of my pension, is about £100K which is invested in a UK small companies fund which is invested in 30 or so companies like Greggs, Avon Rubber, Games Workshop, Future plc and many others. My wife works at Greggs and I genuinely want them to succeed as I do all those businesses, if they grow, my money grows with them and my hope is that down the road I can start to draw a modest income from my investments for retirement by selling off some shares a little at a time each year.
As Warren Buffet says, shares are small pieces of companies, companies run by people, who employ people and make products or provide services we all enjoy, you place you money and trust in them and it's like buying a farm, you want it to do well and to grow over time.
However, like all investments that have had strong growth, you make a call as to when to sell - along the lines of, have I made more than I expected, and is this the right time for me to sell, and what would I do with the gain?