Help me up my soloing game

viz · May 2014

On the dominant (V) chord try this, it's awesome. Go up a semitone and play the melodic minor. In fact, if you're playing blues in E, B is the dominant, so go to the 7th fret, up an octave to the 4th string 9th fret, that's a B; then go up a semitone, put your first finger on the 10th fret, get ready to play, and try this scale:

10, 12, 13 (4th string)
10, 12, 13 (3rd string)
10, 12, 13 (2nd string)
10, 11, 13 (1st string) (NOTE THE 11!)

Then back down again. You can do it very fast. It's an approximation of the melodic minor. At the bottom of that scale again you have to finish off by sliding down one more semitone, back onto the B. The whole run should be done very fast, up and down once, within the time the B dominant chord is playing. It's a great effect.

digitalscream · May 2014

It's just occurred to me - one other thing I tend to do when writing (as opposed to improvising) a solo is to listen through the track I'm going to be playing over and split it into sections in my mind, thinking "slow-slow-fast-slow-fast-fast" etc. Basically, it's just working out a rough structure for it; I tend to go with whatever my first instinct is, rather than over-think it.

At that point, I'm thinking less about the notes and more about the overall feel of how it's going to be when playing it. When I start putting notes in there, the first section is always the hardest; subsequent sections tend to lead naturally on from it, especially when you already know whether it's going to be fast or slow (limitation is the mother of invention etc).

midiglitch · May 2014

I'm no Viz, but when I'm writing a solo which needs to be 'interesting' there's a couple of things which work for me:

-Use (part of) the vocal or other melodic hook as the jumping off point, or ending point for the solo.

-Introduce an effect pedal and play to it (delay is great as it rewards slow playing like mine!)

-Find a note that is 'outside' and work with it. We've just literally finished our first album and I was listening to it this morning. There are 11 tracks and on 7 of them I use phrases which you would have to classify as belonging to the harmonic minor or phrygian dominant scales (I don't think in terms of scales, but I know a few.) Turns out I have a fondness for the major seventh against the minor chord (or the flat second against the dominant, depending on where you're standing)! Sometimes the solo will demand that the chord underneath be replaced because its more interesting. we do this a lot - changing the 3 chord from minor to major.

-I saw an interview with Brian May where he said he always tries to sing the solo first, then play it - rather than let the fingers come up with it, as the fingers tend to be fairly predictable. That's probably why there are more of his solos mentioned in the 'best solos in pop songs' thread than any one else. I try to do the same, or sometimes let the fingers do their thing and record it, then on hearing it back I can hear what it needs to do instead.

Of course, all this is underpinned by playing for the song, playing the changes etc...

viz · May 2014

Great to see you yesterday M-H and your playing sounded great, even on my widdle machine! Enjoy the jazz constructs

monquixote · May 2014

viz said:

Great to see you yesterday M-H and your playing sounded great, even on my widdle machine! Enjoy the jazz constructs

Cheers Viz

As ever it was good to enjoy your widdling prowess and your sherry.

Jalapeno · May 2014

Static Dom7 - heaven ! You can play absolutely anything ! Even the Maj7 in passing.

Just resolve it back to the root, 3rd or b7 to finish.

Clarky tip - play min Pentatonic up 2 frets for Myxolydian - you already know the fingering and licks !

EricTheWeary · May 2014

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All to be done with the best possible taste of course...

|)

Does that get me fired from a guitar forum?
:-O

carlos · May 2014

We can wear out our typing fingers listing every combination of scales and arpeggios to use over each chord but I think it's more helpful to give you some general advice.

- develop your ears, so you can hear it in your head before you play it. This is definitely something you can practice and it will help a lot when soloing. If out of inspiration, use tunes we all know, for instance try playing Greensleeves from memory. Sing it out loud or in your head and then try to play it. If you can do that consistently that's a lot of soloing situations covered.

- don't play too much! When I started playing over changes I tried to do something over every chord and messed it up. Even when I got it right it was too busy. Silence is also a sound you can use.

- use a full range of articulation when playing notes. So instead of just doing note then bend, you can also do pre-bends, slides to and from scale notes, etc. Do 1/4 bends, do silly 2 step bends... and then vibrato on top.

- if you're not very fast and don't want to spend hours developing speed, remember that phrases that throw off the listener sound faster because they're unpredictable. So on the turnaround chord play a moderate tempo diminished or whole-tone run and it will sound fast.

- if you can't hear a scale, don't play it. Some of us know too many scales as diagrams and not as sounds.

- I think rhythm is as important as note choice, but that's a very personal opinion. It's easier to play outside by stepping outside the established rhythm of the song than it is by note choice.

- it's nice to learn arpeggios in several different combinations, so 121, 22, 1111, 211, etc but if you can't be arsed combining chords and scales is an easy way to arpeggiate. For instance, combining a 9 chord shape with the minor penta and playing one or two notes per string sounds pretty cool and more interesting than a straight scale run.

mike_l · May 2014

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All to be done with the best possible taste of course...
|)

Does that get me fired from a guitar forum?
:-O

Not fired. But you do have to record and let us all hear exactly what you mean........

not_the_dj · May 2014

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All true.

I'm dreading the day another guitarist come up to me at a gig and says "you really shoud learn a second scale, all your solos are the same.."

(hangs head in shame)

JAYJO · May 2014

not_the_dj said:

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All true.

I'm dreading the day another guitarist come up to me at a gig and says "you really shoud learn a second scale, all your solos are the same.."

(hangs head in shame)

Then you say Fck OFF. Go stick your head up your arse and see if they sound the same then!!

EricTheWeary · May 2014

mike_l said:

EricTheWeary said:

For the least technical answer ever: novelty.

TBH use all the scales you like but it still sounds like poodlepoodlepoodlepoodlepoodle to 90% of punters. They will, however, remember the solo where you used a wah ( not if you use a wah on everything, of course), the solo where you did tapping, the solo where you did crazy tremolo picking, the one with the rockabilly licks, the one where you used a slide,etc,etc.

All to be done with the best possible taste of course...
|)

Does that get me fired from a guitar forum?
:-O

Not fired. But you do have to record and let us all hear exactly what you mean........

Ha! No... :o3

mike_l · May 2014

not_the_dj said:

I'm dreading the day another guitarist come up to me at a gig and says "you really shoud learn a second scale, all your solos are the same.."

(hangs head in shame)

I'm waiting for someone to say "you really should learn a scale shape, your solo's are all shite.

Maybe it's the sawnoff shotgun I keep near me at all times that puts people off

mike_l · May 2014

Jalapeno said:

Clarky tip - play min Pentatonic up 2 frets for Myxolydian - you already know the fingering and licks !

F'kin genius

JAYJO · May 2014

For more pentatonic info Try Steve Khans Pentatonic Khancepts. (Book)

guitarfishbay · May 2014

Write it in your head, figure out how to play it later. I find if I write a solo with a guitar in my hands it often ends up being less interesting. Sometimes I write my solos out on a keyboard because it makes me think differently to a guitar.

viz · June 2014

Wizdom

viz · June 2014

And not only for solos - for music generally.

Barney · June 2014

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....

Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..

Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...

monquixote · June 2014

Barney said:

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....

Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..

Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...

Yeah I've been working on some of that stuff since you posted about it before. Trying to move patterns up or down a fret to go out and then come back in again.

I'm also interested in using the "wrong" pentatonics. Shifting down two for a Mixolydian, or using the pentatonics up a fourth or a fifth to give interesting sounds with the same riffs.

digitalscream · June 2014

Wasn't sure whether to put this up here 'cos it might seem like too much self-promotion, but here's part of a PM conversation between myself and monquixote that he thought should be in here...

~~~~~~~~~

...generally, when I'm writing solos I find the hardest parts to get right are the beginning, end and "second act".

To my mind, there are three ways to start a solo (for the type of music I play, anyway) - tuneful, wailing and fast. For the exit, I'll finish on a dead stop, a held note (preferably into feedback, 'cos that's rock man) or I'll repeat a theme from earlier in the song to take it back into the vocals.

I don't have a good example right now of the wailing start, but I'm pretty sure you can imagine what it entails. For the tuneful approach, I'll usually go for a simple theme which involves the key modal notes. Exhibit A:

http://www.digitalscream.org.uk/music/cc/sunset_of_red.mp3 (solo @ 2:05)

From there, I can choose where I want the bulk of the solo to be on the fretboard and just work my way up to it; at that point, it just becomes whatever licks fit the song (I really have only two approaches there - subtle and melodic, or utter-lack-of-taste). In this one, I also finished on a more sustain-y version of the theme that I used for the verses and carry that on under the choruses.

Exhibit B is the fast start approach coupled with the hold-it-into-feedback exit (minus the feedback on the recording):

http://www.digitalscream.org.uk/music/cc/god_help_me.mp3 (solo @ 2:03 ish)

You'll note that this one very much follows the utter-lack-of-taste track. It's also one of those annoying solos with a second act - just as you've run out of steam (and licks) and you're ready for the end, the rest of the band carries on and you realise you're only half way through. For that, I find that the only solution is more silliness. No, I have no maturity when it comes to playing lead.

~~~~~~~~

guitarfishbay · June 2014

I definitely think the first two bars are the hardest. It usually takes me a while to think of something and then once I've got that I can write the rest of the solo much more easily.

I often think 'what would Marty Friedman/George Lynch/Brian May do?' and start from there, but I play heavier rock music so pick whatever influences work for you. Sometimes in my head I've got some wicked massive hair dos while thinking up guitar solos though.

Barney · June 2014

monquixote;257560" said:
Barney said:

I think timing and phrasing the most important thing that makes a good solo...some of the best solos iv heard are just pentatonic and blues scales..its the way they are played though...the feel ..note choice ect...I would put more thought into that than actual notes....

Another thing I notice about solos is sometimes they just try and build up from whats already there.....its sometimes a good idea to do the opposite ...and that is let bass and drums fire away and back off the guitar and build up from there..

Maybe try moving the pentatonics about a bit as well ..like mixing A minor and E minor pentatonics or even moving then in and out of tonality by one step...

Yeah I've been working on some of that stuff since you posted about it before. Trying to move patterns up or down a fret to go out and then come back in again.

I think the best way to make this work is by playing everything like you mean it with good timing and using patterns......a good thing to try is a standard Aminor pentatonic in 5th position...start normaly on TopC...going down...but on the B string move up a fret ...then back down on the next string ect and finish on A note for resolution.....then start using the same idea with various patterns

monquixote · June 2014

Oooh cheers dude I'll try that.

I think playing with conviction when you are flying by the seat of your pants is half the battle

viz · June 2014

Exactly. At my last greg howe lesson he told me that most of the time it's like he's just on the point of falling over and just managing to recover his balance in time. And it certainly doesn't sound like it. Whenever he's playing jazz notes he calls it "playing outside"

digitalscream · June 2014

viz said:

Exactly. At my last greg howe lesson he told me that most of the time it's like he's just on the point of falling over and just managing to recover his balance in time. And it certainly doesn't sound like it. Whenever he's playing jazz notes he calls it "playing outside"

Really? That's heartening. I thought I was the only one who's constantly on the edge of totally losing it every time I play.

Trouble is, people really do notice when I screw the pooch, and it's never really within the realms of being able to call it jazz

ThePrettyDamned · June 2014

viz said:

On the dominant (V) chord try this, it's awesome. Go up a semitone and play the melodic minor. In fact, if you're playing blues in E, B is the dominant, so go to the 7th fret, up an octave to the 4th string 9th fret, that's a B; then go up a semitone, put your first finger on the 10th fret, get ready to play, and try this scale:

10, 12, 13 (4th string)
10, 12, 13 (3rd string)
10, 12, 13 (2nd string)
10, 11, 13 (1st string) (NOTE THE 11!)

Then back down again. You can do it very fast. It's an approximation of the melodic minor. At the bottom of that scale again you have to finish off by sliding down one more semitone, back onto the B. The whole run should be done very fast, up and down once, within the time the B dominant chord is playing. It's a great effect.

I have used this idea over a straight ahead heavy rock riff in D minor and it worked fine. Never thought of why, I just thought of it as a pentatonic lick with extra notes played quick enough they hardly matter to the overall feel...

I'll take it down two frets next time and see how that sounds.

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Help me up my soloing game

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