Help me up my soloing game

monquixote · May 2014

For the last few years I've been playing in a six piece soul/funk band and a typical gig would give me two or tops three solos to do with the others being split between keys and sax.

I'm now going to be starting a 4 piece rock/soul band and this is going to mean I'm going to be taking loads of solos (many of which will be improvised rather than learned from a part). A guitarist's dream you might think, but I'm not really someone who studies solos and lead guitar extensively so though I can do the business where required I don't have a massive repertoire of interesting riffs and tricks.

I really hate watching bands where every solo is the same pentatonic cliches chained together so I want to move a bit beyond it and make sure I keep it interesting.

A lot of the You Tube videos of more advanced lead guitar seem to be focussed on how you can sweep a diminished arpeggio or play in locrian and that's all very well, but will never fit into any of the music that I play which is going to be mainly over Dominant or Minor 7th chords, sometimes quite static.

What I need are some interesting ideas and approaches I can pull out of the bag and make a solo more interesting.

To give you an idea of where I'm at, I'm reasonably comfortable with the pentatonic, aeolian, ionian, and dorian all over the neck and I'd like to get better at mixolydian. The other modes don't actually seem useful over anything I play ( I could be wrong).

I can do some very basic chromaticism and getting outside though I'd like to improve this considerably.

I can sweep and tap in a basic way, but I find it hard to put it in a musical context in an improvised solo.

So what have you got?

viz · May 2014

Come round for those books and let's discuss it / try a couple of things!

Gassage · May 2014

I think you need to buy a set of Cornish dirt pedals. As it happens, I can supply the same for £4000.

monquixote · May 2014

viz said:

Come round for those books and let's discuss it / try a couple of things!

Oh yeah, lets do that.

What day is good for you?

I can do Thursday if that's any good?

Grunfeld · May 2014

monquixote said:

What I need are some interesting ideas and approaches I can pull out of the bag and make a solo more interesting.

Interesting for whom?

If it's, "interesting for the audience" then I reckon one needs to have mostly melodic ideas with a bit of flash. Because most people latch onto a tune (it is "music" after all) and occasionally like to see a little bit of virtuosity... but not too much.

If it's "interesting for the other guitarist(s)" in the audience then you'll either have guitarists who can not play as well as you, in which case even wearing your Captain Pentatonic cape will impress them; or they'll be better than you in which case they won't find you interesting. And if they did they probably wouldn't admit it. Basically you'd have to be Guthrie Govan which is probably more work than most of us want to put into it.

And if you're trying to make it interesting for yourself then you've got an uphill struggle because you'll always know what's coming next... so it's hard to surprise yourself. But...

My own take on this issue is a song-by-song basis. Being very much of the Cptn. Pentatonic school in the past I've wondered how to do something different, to "make it interesting". So all the improvisation is done at home where I practice a song, keep the licks that I've borrowed/ come up with, and then live I'll use those. Any live improvisation mostly comes down to choosing on the fly which licks to use. The stuff which I personally find interesting I've borrowed and adapted, and I think its interesting-ness comes from the fact that it originally came from somewhere else.

monquixote · May 2014

Grunfeld said:

monquixote said:

What I need are some interesting ideas and approaches I can pull out of the bag and make a solo more interesting.

Interesting for whom?

If it's, "interesting for the audience" then I reckon you want to have mostly melodic ideas with a bit of flash. Because most people latch onto a tune (it is "music" after all) and occasionally like to see a little bit of virtuosity... but not too much.

If it's "interesting for the other guitarist(s)" in the audience then you'll either have guitarists who can not play as well as you, in which case even wearing your Captain Pentatonic cape will impress them; or they'll be better than you in which case they won't find you interesting. And if they did they probably wouldn't admit it. Basically you'd have to be Guthrie Govan which is probably more work than most of us want to put into it.

And if you're trying to make it interesting for yourself then you've got an uphill struggle because you'll always know what's coming next... so it's hard to surprise yourself. But...

My own take on this issue is a song-by-song basis. Being very much of the Cptn. Pentatonic school in the past I've wondered how to do something different, to "make it interesting". So all the improvisation is done at home where I practice a song, keep the licks that I've borrowed/ come up with, and then live I'll use those. Any live improvisation mostly comes down to choosing on the fly which licks to use. The stuff which I personally find interesting I've borrowed and adapted, and I think its interesting-ness comes from the fact that it originally came from somewhere else.

Without a doubt the first of those options.

I have no interest in impressing other guitarists, or appearing as a virtuoso shredder, I just don't want to bore the audience.

viz · May 2014

monquixote said:

viz said:

Come round for those books and let's discuss it / try a couple of things!

Oh yeah, lets do that.

What day is good for you?

I can do Thursday if that's any good?

pm

viz · May 2014

I mean I'm PMing you, not Thursday pm!

stickyfiddle · May 2014

Stop worrying about scales and start thinking about melody, then play that. The ultimate goal is to link a tune in your head with what your fingers need to do, all in real time. Once you get there you're only limited by what your music brain can think of

Grunfeld · May 2014

monquixote said:

Without a doubt the first of those options.

I have no interest in impressing other guitarists, or appearing as a virtuoso shredder, I just don't want to bore the audience.

Then unless it's a sophisticated audience I'd suggest getting a sparkly jacket and running around a bit.

EDIT: That came out a bit brusque! What I mean is that visuals count for as much, if not more, than "modal-musicality" for non-musical audiences. I think.

monquixote · May 2014

stickyfiddle said:

Stop worrying about scales and start thinking about melody, then play that. The ultimate goal is to link a tune in your head with what your fingers need to do, all in real time. Once you get there you're only limited by what your music brain can think of

I try to follow the vocal melody and improvise that if I can, but the problem there is that a lot of the music I play has you soloing over a static 7 chord which doesn't give you a lot of opportunity to play the changes.

monquixote · May 2014

Grunfeld said:
Then unless it's a sophisticated audience I'd suggest getting a sparkly jacket and running around a bit.

EDIT: That came out a bit brusque! What I mean is that visuals count for as much, if not more, than "modal-musicality" for non-musical audiences. I think.

I know what you mean.

In my last band I was playing in a gold bow tie and braces

viz · May 2014

100% agree with Mr. Sticky. The ultimate is not to compose or improvise "guitaristically" but tunefully, then to learn how to play what's in your head. I have composition lessons and that's what we're focusing on. The playing of it is easy in comparison

richardhomer · May 2014

Probably a cliche but borrowing melodic 'quotes' from the vocal works as a good way of catching the audience's ear and helps to ensure a solo doesn't be come too indulgent.

digitalscream · May 2014

richardhomer said:

Probably a cliche but borrowing melodic 'quotes' from the vocal works as a good way of catching the audience's ear and helps to ensure a solo doesn't be come too indulgent.

I often either do this or pick a small theme from earlier in the song (pushed up an octave or two) to either break up the solo in the middle and get people's attention back, or to finish the solo and lead into the second half of the song.

In terms of actual technique...I find that lots of sweeping is a bit counter-productive in that if you don't quite pull it off in a live context then you have more pick noise than notes and it simply looks/sounds like you're trying too hard.

For my part, I find that one of the most effective techniques in a live situation is legato (or hammers/pulls if you're being picky). It looks good, sounds good and is relatively easy to control. Tapping can be handy for this too, if your fingers are a bit short for some of the silly stretches people do (like mine).

Also...get the hang of switching pickups in the middle of a solo without breaking the momentum. It's a really good way of splitting a solo into beginning/middle/end.

zenzeypher · May 2014

I was absolutely guff at solos - I just couldn't wrap my head around it. I used to be easily intimidated by better players until recently.

Someone literally sat me down and taught me all the pent positions and how to use them properly, then told me to start off on lead lines use the natural rhythm or strumming pattern of the song, then double stops etc and how to link them all in.

sorry If I'm talking like a simplton aha.. After that I was away - after recently 80 hours of jamming kinda getting it down a little... in my head I try and make my solo sound like someone singing a chorus on speed.

kinda got it now.

viz · May 2014

Here is an improvisation I did in mustang sally that I've posted before. The sorts of things I had in mind were:

firstly I was striving for strong rhythmical feel that really accentuated and complemented the beat, yet had not too much repetition such as long repetitive tapping sections.

Vocally I was trying to keep it tuneful (probably failing), so it could in theory be hummed as a tune, and also I was trying to use the entire range of the fretboard just to express myself around a large range.

Also I was aiming for a contrast between spiky rhythmical bits and fast legato passages that culminated in musical peaks.

Finally I also attempted to bring the whole solo to a natural conclusion.

No idea how it came across really but it's basically how I try to do a solo though I certainly wouldn't say I had the whole thing in mind before I started. I'm probably a few seconds ahead of myself at any point.

stickyfiddle · May 2014

That's a good example @Viz. The widdly bits keep some melody and there's some nice slower phrases between them. Good tone too, as far as I can tell from phone camera + youtube!

Not sure how much widdle you're planning @Monquixote, but the major thing most shredders get wrong is playing patterns rather than playing tunes.

For non-widdle (aka "real music"

) try just a theme for a solo that's just a handful of notes - only needs to be 6 or so, and fit something around that. Limiting yourself to something, playing it once, then playing it again slightly differently can be a good start for an improve solo and go from there.

monquixote · May 2014

I don't do much widdling because I don't know how to

I should add that when I say sweeping it's usually with a clean tone in a Les Paul style rather than in a Malmsteen type of a thing.

This is my soundcloud with a few examples of my playing on it.

https://soundcloud.com/nick-long

viz · May 2014

Thanks Stickster. Yep "volume is tone". I was using one of Mike_L's OD pedals set to 100.

viz · May 2014

Monkey's Onqule has widdle in it!

monquixote · May 2014

viz said:

Monkey's Onqule has widdle in it!

It's quite an old track back from when I was younger and played a lot more

viz · May 2014

monquixote said:

viz said:

Monkey's Onqule has widdle in it!

It's quite an old track back from when I was younger and played a lot more notes.

finished for you.

Danny1969 · May 2014

@viz nice playing and good example

I don't ever think in terms of modes or scales, even though I know em. I tend to want to make a statement that's expressive, so it's more the execution of the notes than the scale for me. Lots of bends, pre bends, harmonics, use fingers as well as pick etc. Even the humble pentonic can sound convincing and soulful if you can get enough expression into it.

Always know what chords are under the solo cos that's your road map and every note you land on has to be in symphony with them

monquixote · May 2014

I like to think it's because I have more taste now, but I think the reality is that I used to practice a lot more

Roland · May 2014

Nick. You've got the important techniques nailed: bends, vibrato etc. It sounds as if what you're asking about is note choice outside of the minor pentatonic.

What I'd recommend is three steps:

1. adding just three notes initially: 2nd to the minor pentatonic, minor third and flattened seventh to the major scale (which makes it the mixolydian). If you practice playing these then your fingers will soon remember where they sit on the fret board. (You may already know these, so ignore me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs)

2. Adding the 6th. There are two of them. In the Am scale they correspond to F and F#. Both do different things to the sound. Theory has names for the modal scales they produce, but what's important is how they sound.

3. Thinking about how these "new" notes sit against the chord. Viz gave the example of a "linear" solo to Mustang Sally, based on scales. Try playing using just the chord notes, plus the minor third and flattened seventh.

viz · May 2014

Thanks '69

and yep the pentatonic is fine - plenty of feel to be gained within its 5 notes. My solo is mixa or dorian depending on whether you think I'm playing major or minor (i squeeze the 3rds), but quite a lot of the time I'm playing pure penta, just trying to include lots of different techniques like Mr. 69 says.

JayGee · May 2014

Speaking as someone who's barely competent with Ye Olde Pentatonicce my personal "secret weapon" for not boring the pants off both myself and the audience is phrasing.

You can (in my oh-so-very humple opinion, and trust me I'm very, very humble indeed in these parts...) get a surprising amount of mileage out of a few licks by just kind of echoing what the singer has been doing and kind of tweaking the timing a bit to create some kind of conversational feel.

mike_l · May 2014

monquixote said:

In my last band I was playing in a gold bow tie and braces

And had a guitar to cover my modesty.....

close2u · May 2014

@monquiote and your OP

places I know where you can get some fantastic tips :

Andrew Wasson on youtube:

mellowsun · May 2014

For soloing over a static dominant 7 chord, I find using min7 (or minor with maj7) arpeggios starting on the 5th can work well as a proxy for the mixolydian mode from the root, and avoids the sound of the root being targetted too often. E.g. for E7, use licks based around Bm7 or Bm/maj7. Using the maj7 of Bm arp gives you a bluesy flat5 against the E7, which can sound good. Fm pentatonic can also work.

Cop licks from well known tunes. E.g. for E7, the intro lick from 'So what' starting on B sounds good, but then use it to go into something else.

Playing something in octaves, Wes Montgomery style, can work well over a static dom7 chord.

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Help me up my soloing game

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