Which do Bassists Prefer?

Bellycaster · August 2013

Tube Amps or Solid State?

I thought this section needed a new discussion.

I know it may be a bit generalising BUT.

As a Guitarist, it has become apparent that most (not all) other Guitarists crave the tonal harmonics and nuances of a well made "Tube" amp.

But what is the "Goal" tone for Bassists. I know very little about Bass Amplification. Do many companies produce Bass "Tube" Amps. Is the Bass, as an Instrument more suited to Solid State?

I do love lots of Bass tones I hear live or on records but I never stopped to think in depth about what players use.

I do know that if I ever went to see a live band and the Bassist was using a Trace Elliot, I knew I was gonna love the sound.

Discuss

:-)

monquixote · August 2013

Tube bass amps that pack serious power are both insanely heavy and insanely expensive.

Solid state tends to be the norm with a move to class D in recent times spearheaded by Markbass and TC.

The main difference is that there is a lot of high end SS bass gear.

Modellers don't really seem to be a big thing in bass land.

IanSavage · August 2013

Yep, the big thing in bass amps at the minute is the modern, lightweight Class D stuff (with the Holy Grail being a powerful, well-specced lightweight head with proven reliability, the last of which obviously won't be there for a while yet); rock bands with roadies will still often go full-valve (Ampeg SVT, Marshall VBA, Laney Nexus) but as quixote says, they're stupidly heavy and usually really expensive.

There's still a fair few doing the 'valve/SS hybrid preamp' thing, but they seem to gradually be falling by the wayside; lightweight's where it's at. Modelling is NOT, and never has been (Line 6's 'pro' bass gear REALLY didn't sell well, partly because bassists just aren't interested - I actually don't mind them, but I'd never use all the sounds in one).

Bellycaster · August 2013

Cheers Lads, good info.

ICBM · August 2013

I still prefer old-school solid-state Class AB, possibly with a valve in the preamp. I haven't heard any Class Ds that have sounded quite as good yet - they seem to lack a certain 'thump' or something. That said I do like a thick, dirty bass tone about as far removed from the modern 'transparent' thing as possible. I like valve bass amps too but the cost and weight relative to the power output is offputting - although you can get away with a surprisingly low-powered amp if you don't want it clean.

My current amp is a 500W Class AB 1x15" combo with a valve in the preamp, and it does weigh a ton (or 114lb to be accurate) but it still really shifts air at the bottom end in a way I've never heard a modern lightweight amp do.

Paul_C · August 2013

my last "proper" gigging rig was a Markbass 3x10 combo with an ART TubePAC preamp/comp in front - mightily loud and thumpy

( I was in a reggae band, the first band I've ever been in where I was regularly told to turn up

)

Bellycaster · August 2013

@ICBM

500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

monquixote · August 2013

Bass amps need considerably higher wattages.

300-500w is pretty typical.

ICBM · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

That's quite low-powered by modern bass amp standards

.

As with my 100W guitar amps, I don't crank it right up either - actually not a good idea with this amp, since it's capable of blowing its own speaker if you do, as I discovered when I tried to sell it to someone a while back

. After that I decided it was safer to keep it... although one day I might get an extension cab just to find out what it can really do

.

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it. The Class Ds I've heard all sound tighter, more like they're being restricted - they can be very punchy, but it sounds like a hard short punch without a follow-through, if you see what I mean! More accuracy but less energy.

I can understand why someone who wants a clean transparent sound might prefer the Class D though.

Sporky · August 2013

A lot of Class D designs I've seen have underrated power supplies, and rely on discharging the smoothing caps to deliver peak power - that could be it.

monquixote · August 2013

There seems to be a lot of BS in the power ratings as well.

Most of the products on the market use the B&O Ice Power, but the quoted ratings of the amps vary all over the place.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@ICBM

I was picturing the amp scene from "Back to the Future" when I read your post. Man sent flying across the room from giant speaker explosion.

I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

I am learning about power requirements though, higher than I assumed.

ICBM · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

Peavey T-Max.

Having thought about it, the correct technical description for what I like about the sound of it is "welly"

. It just has a lot of it...

It is bloody heavy though. And quite an awkward shape, like a lot of bass combos/cabs - luckily it's on wheels and I can back the car right up to the workshop door. I can totally understand why people without that luxury might like smaller and lighter amps - in fact that's why I was selling it.

Sporky · August 2013

Low frequencies need more power.

monquixote · August 2013

Even if you don't like class D bass has got a lot more portable because of Neo drivers.

Bellycaster · August 2013

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

That's quite low-powered by modern bass amp standards .

As with my 100W guitar amps, I don't crank it right up either - actually not a good idea with this amp, since it's capable of blowing its own speaker if you do, as I discovered when I tried to sell it to someone a while back . After that I decided it was safer to keep it... although one day I might get an extension cab just to find out what it can really do .

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it. The Class Ds I've heard all sound tighter, more like they're being restricted - they can be very punchy, but it sounds like a hard short punch without a follow-through, if you see what I mean! More accuracy but less energy.

I can understand why someone who wants a clean transparent sound might prefer the Class D though.

@ICBM

The Brown Note?

Seriously though I bet it does pack a punch.

I was just listening to Pink Floyd "One of These Days" and was imagining that Bass tone as having "Welly".

IanSavage · September 2013

ICBM said:

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it.

That's my kinda amp of choice as well; I had to get a wheeled suitcase to transport my Marshall DBS7400 'cos it's beastly-heavy, but well worth it for the power.

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

Peavey T-Max.

Having thought about it, the correct technical description for what I like about the sound of it is "welly" . It just has a lot of it...

Yeah, the old US-made Peavey bass stuff is usually great. Plenty of iron, over-engineered to shite, goes and goes and goes. My ex-drummer's had the same TNT130 combo in his rehearsal studio for about 15 years, and only ever had to change one blown speaker; and there's NO way you should be able to get away with 130W alongside a loud drummer, but you can

chrispy108 · September 2013

I really liked my Yamaha BBT combo, which is a 500w Class D amp with a modelling pre-amp, and a 1x15 speaker.

I pretty much only used one sound, but it's so flexible, my main preset had a bit of grind, some compression, and alot of EQing (a low shelf, low-mid, mid, hi-mid and high-shelf), and a noise gate. Would be a pain to do separately!

ICBM · September 2013

IanSavage said:
Yeah, the old US-made Peavey bass stuff is usually great. Plenty of iron, over-engineered to shite, goes and goes and goes. My ex-drummer's had the same TNT130 combo in his rehearsal studio for about 15 years, and only ever had to change one blown speaker; and there's NO way you should be able to get away with 130W alongside a loud drummer, but you can

I always liked these too - and its bigger and unimaginatively-named brother the Combo 300. I mean come on... if the little one is a TNT the big one should be at least a MOAB or something!

The only real snag with them is the ridiculous single top handle. At least the T-Max has side handles.

mikenewell · September 2013

monquixote said:

Tube bass amps that pack serious power are both insanely heavy and insanely expensive.

Solid state tends to be the norm with a move to class D in recent times spearheaded by Markbass and TC.

The main difference is that there is a lot of high end SS bass gear.

Modellers don't really seem to be a big thing in bass land.

Need we say more, got it in 1...

Aswell as playing guitar I play bass, for my gigs I use a Gallien Krueger BK600 head (300w) and A 2x10 GK cab with 700w of Eminence Delta, and for me It kicks a$$ its always been loud enough + its running 8ohms not the 4ohm minimum so technically amp only puching 180w!! the cab weighs a ton though (

Blueingreen · September 2013

10 years or so ago I was playing bass using an SWR Grand Prix preamp into a QSC PLX 1602 and a couple of SWR 2 x 10s. Nice sound but a lot of stuff to lug around. Loud but it needed to be in a 9 piece funk band. I haven't even picked up a bass guitar in years so I'm well out of touch with recent changes in gear technology. Would I be right in thinking that it would be possible to do a similar job with a much lighter rig these days?

Bellycaster · September 2013

@Blueingreen

I'm not an expert on Bass Gear, hence the Thread, but Ian Savage's Post further up explains about Class D rigs, Lightweight etc.

monquixote · September 2013

Blueingreen said:

10 years or so ago I was playing bass using an SWR Grand Prix preamp into a QSC PLX 1602 and a couple of SWR 2 x 10s. Nice sound but a lot of stuff to lug around. Loud but it needed to be in a 9 piece funk band. I haven't even picked up a bass guitar in years so I'm well out of touch with recent changes in gear technology. Would I be right in thinking that it would be possible to do a similar job with a much lighter rig these days?

Yes indeed.

Mark Bass, TC Electronic, etc produce some great light weight gear.

mudslide73 · September 2013

Our bassist has gone from a MiniMark to a SVT Heritage. Much cleaner and sustained... heavier than a Twin too .. takes 2 of us to get it up onto the cab.

ICBM · September 2013

There is a reason why the SVT is still possibly the most common single model of bass amp to be seen on professional stages, forty years after it was introduced.

But they're much better if someone else takes care of moving it, storing it, paying for revalving it...

equalsql · September 2013

Tube pre-amps with a SS power stage. I owned an early SWR head sporting that combination and the tone and power was awesome. The amp was pretty light too. Sounded like a dumpling hitting the wall

ICBM · September 2013

I had a very early SWR Studio 220 which sounded absolutely wonderful clean, but - extremely frustratingly given the valve preamp, and that it was small and light - terrible to unusable overdriven... just awful. Sadly I like an overdriven bass tone so it had to go.

koneguitarist · September 2013

I have allways preferred SS amps for bass, or even DI into PA then back to bass amp as a monitor. But once I tried an old JV precision through a Marshall super bass 100 stack and I could see what the fuss was all about. That growl was awesome. Still use SS when I gig though.

fretmeister · September 2013

SS or Tubepreamp with SS power for me. Currently Class D on both my amps. Both Genz Benz. TC's RH450 supposed 450w is only about 260w and relies on their power management doohickey.

UnclePsychosis · September 2013

I've got to be honest...I'm really not fussy about bass amps. I'll plug into whatever's there, or just use my little preamp and DI straight into the PA. However, I "just" play fairly straight ahead rock music so its not like tonal subtleties are all that important.

If I ever do buy a "proper" bass amp it'll almost certainly be solid state, unless I have roadies to carry it around for me...

Pyroman · September 2013

I'm in the SS group for bass amps as well. My class D Markbass amp is hard to beat, tonewise- and it's silly how light it is. No need to lug around hernia inducing, back breaking tube amps...

I like the Fender Rumble series as well- they sound great, and don't break the bank. If I ever get out of my bedroom with my bass, a Rumble 350 is quite tempting.

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Which do Bassists Prefer?

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