Dreadnought Action

BigLicks67 · April 2014

Anybody know what the (standard) action should be for a string at the 12th fret on a dreadnought type acoustic.

Mine is currently in excess of 3mm on the fat E, which seems a bit high.

I'm assuming the first port of call is the saddle if I want to reduce this?

Thanks in advance.

crunchman · April 2014

3mm isn't ridiculously high on an acoustic. A bit over 2mm may be more typical though. You don't want to go too low else you can get nasty buzzes etc.

You might want to check the neck relief. If you hold a string down at the first fret and at the last fret, there should be a very small gap between the top of the 12th fret and the bottom of the string - probably about 0.2 to 0.3mm - feeler gauges might help you here.

If there is a bigger gap then this then you could help the situation by tightening the truss rod. If there is no gap at all then the truss rod will need loosening off. Make sure you loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod.

victorludorum · April 2014

2.7mm I believe, so you're not far off. Higher action is good for volume.

BigLicks67 · April 2014

crunchman said:

3mm isn't ridiculously high on an acoustic. A bit over 2mm may be more typical though. You don't want to go too low else you can get nasty buzzes etc.

You might want to check the neck relief. If you hold a string down at the first fret and at the last fret, there should be a very small gap between the top of the 12th fret and the bottom of the string - probably about 0.2 to 0.3mm - feeler gauges might help you here.

If there is a bigger gap then this then you could help the situation by tightening the truss rod. If there is no gap at all then the truss rod will need loosening off. Make sure you loosen the strings before adjusting the truss rod.

The neck is slightly concave. If I fret the string at the first and last fret then there is a very small gap (no feeler gauges) so the truss rod must be okay based on what you are saying.

BigLicks67 · April 2014

victorludorum said:

2.7mm I believe, so you're not far off. Higher action is good for volume.

Don't get me wrong it's not unplayable and it is loud, it's just quite a bit higher than my other acoustic which is an OM type model.

thermionic · April 2014

Before you sand down your saddle, check the break angle will allow it. My Taylor's action (I believe) got gradually higher after a couple of years. I attribute this to the climate here being rather damper than the 47% standard they apply whilst building them in California, the top swells and bellies up. Anyway, I lowered the saddle by the amount I thought was required to get it back like when it was new but the tone suffered - I think the reduced break angle contributed. The tone was so much worse I immediately bought another saddle to get the height back. I'll check later to see where it's at.

ICBM · April 2014

3mm sounds about right to me, for the low E on a big resonant guitar. There's no 'right measurement' though, you have to go by feel, ear and experience.

You can have the thin strings quite a bit lower even for good tone on a Dreadnought, but you want a fair bit of room for the thick ones.

BigLicks67 · April 2014

ICBM said:

3mm sounds about right to me, for the low E on a big resonant guitar. There's no 'right measurement' though, you have to go by feel, ear and experience.

You can have the thin strings quite a bit lower even for good tone on a Dreadnought, but you want a fair bit of room for the thick ones.

I'll probably just leave it as is. my experiments with Guitar techery tend to end badly anyway.

thermionic · April 2014

Mine is a bit higher than I thought, 3.5mm. Like ICBM says, I wouldn't want it much lower on a dread strung with 13-56!

thomasross20 · June 2023

@ICBM you reckon higher action needed for bigger guitar? Sounds right to me.

What about nut height... That shouldn't matter, right? It should be the same for any guitar?

ICBM · June 2023

thomasross20 said:

@ICBM you reckon higher action needed for bigger guitar? Sounds right to me.

What about nut height... That shouldn't matter, right? It should be the same for any guitar?

You need a higher action for a guitar with a larger top and bigger top movement - the top literally moves up and down with the string vibration, and the strings must not hit the frets even when the top is at the lowest point of its travel, so the more movement in the top the higher the action has to be with the strings at rest... if that makes sense!

Nut height should be more or less the same as on any guitar, although I would probably not try to get it quite to the limit of lowest possible height that I would with an electric.

thomasross20 · June 2023

Yep that makes sense, thanks.

So bigger guitars have inherently higher action. So if you want a bassier guitar either get a bigger bodied one (higher action) or one that has scallopped braces or top (not sure if this has same effect re action?).

Re nut height... So it is acceptable to lower that so an F is easy enough to barre. Basically I'm shooting for same nut slot depths on a dreadnought as on an OM..?

Mellish · June 2023

When I've had dreads I've gone around 2.5mm on low E at 12th.

Go lower than 2mm on a Martin dread and you can take away all the fire.

thomasross20 · June 2023

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I got an L-05 (lol). I now have five Larrivee's. I actually feel a bit sick at how much £££ I've spent and I tend to prefer less than more. But this thing is sublime. The nut feels a tad high and the low E is 3mm at 12th fret. Might get luthier to file the nut slots, at least.. as I think lowering that so can play an F a bit easier is fine. Wish could do that myself

Mellish · June 2023

Hmm...so.much for the "I'm not buying any more guitars for a while. I
mean it!"

thomasross20 · June 2023

I know. Part of me wants to take a reflex action, sell all them and just buy/keep one. This has really escalated!

Mellish · June 2023

I'm just joking mate. Your money, your right to spend it

mgaw · June 2023

thomasross20 said:

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I got an L-05 (lol). I now have five Larrivee's. I actually feel a bit sick at how much £££ I've spent and I tend to prefer less than more. But this thing is sublime. The nut feels a tad high and the low E is 3mm at 12th fret. Might get luthier to file the nut slots, at least.. as I think lowering that so can play an F a bit easier is fine. Wish could do that myself

With all that money you could of bought a really good acoustic

thomasross20 · June 2023

Haha yeah.
Tbh (and I think was joking?) I've got five really good and different Larrivee's for less than the price of one of these high end ones, and I think the gains are marginal past a certain point (I know, I've tried a bazillion of them). Still.. it's got a bit crazy of late.

Mellish · June 2023

A nice MARTIN OM28 Re-imagined with 'em.........

Suit you.

thomasross20 · June 2023

Hahahaha suit you, sir!
I think I've got problems.
Going to log into TrueFire 24/7 and forget about GAS

Tannin · June 2023

Buy a set of feeler gauges at a car parts shop. That will set you back about the price of a set of strings and they are handy things to have in your repair kit. Capo on the 1st fret, sit the guitar in playing position (not flat on a table) and depress the string at the 12th or 14th fret. Now measure the relief at the 7th fret. (Use the same frets every time for repeatability.)

The neck relief gap should be very small, just barely detectable by eye, so chances are that you could tweak the truss rod a little to adjust it and that alone will be all you need to do to get that slightly-too-high action down to more like 2.6 or 2.7mm, which should still sound fine and make it noticeably nicer to play.

When you adjust the rod, just do a little bit at a time. An eighth to a quarter of a turn is plenty. Then give it time to settle. Do a bit more then next day if needed. Keep track of how much you turn it so that, if you want to, you can return it to the original position.

thomasross20 · June 2023

Good advice, and I'm giving it time to settle.. but the nut defo feels a hair too high. I think that needs addressed at the least. It's not terrible but I'm pernickety about getting it just right.

mgaw · June 2023

thomasross20 said:

Haha yeah.
Tbh (and I think was joking?) I've got five really good and different Larrivee's for less than the price of one of these high end ones, and I think the gains are marginal past a certain point (I know, I've tried a bazillion of them). Still.. it's got a bit crazy of late.

Time for a picture @thomasross20 ;

thomasross20 · June 2023

Going to need a fish eye lens : D

Mellish · June 2023

It depends. As has been said, there is no one-action-suits-all.

Take the bluegrass player. He has to compete with banjos, so his action is likely to be set a bit higher.

thomasross20 · June 2023

Very true, and I look forward to seeing your banjo oo-er lol

Mellish · June 2023

^ you know me and posting images. I couldn't get it right if I *got* it right!

But never say never. Meantime, it's an Ome North Star. Ome is a small manufacturer in Boulder, Colorado.

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