Water Rats 2nd Jun 2018 Running Order - DOORS OPEN 1130

TTony · April 2018

NB - Studio doors open at 1130, first set will start at 1230.

This has taken a little bit of modelling to produce!

It'll all get completely buggered when 3 people pull out the week before, 2 people pull out the day before, and an as-yet-unforecast number don't show on the day ... so, if you're not going to be able to make it ... LET ME KNOW ASAP !!!

We've got a lot of songs to play through on the day, so efficient organisation will be necessary - as @Bridgehouse may well recall from his organising of previous jams.

So, the boring organisation bits.

I've split the overall set list into 4 separate mini-set lists - that way everyone gets a break.

The objective is that everyone who's due to play on any song on each of the 4 mini sets should be in the main room when the mini set starts. That way we minimise the chasing around time, looking for the missing vocalist/bassist/lead guitarist, and it also gives the performers some sort of audience for their performance.

What I've then done is organise the songs on each mini list so that the minimum number of people have to be present for each mini set. That means that everyone - with 1 exception - gets to spend time in the other rooms too.

Make sense?

So, the running order is ...

Image: http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/uploads/editor/0p/rxcf48m2q5uv.jpg

https://open.spotify.com/user/eoapdaw791qpsgnl2ph5yb5j3/playlist/0OKtibR3hnDhejp6wmhsSK?si=BRZIKmTTTemNEjZSogcJNA

Bridgehouse · April 2018

Good job @TTony ;

Everyone should be aware - timing will slip. It will get chaotic. Things will go awry.

However - if everyone keeps on top of roughly where we are and when they are next on then it’ll be fine.

Biggest killer? Kit changeovers. If you can avoid this or make it slick then it will flow really well: if you spend 10 mins faffing about with your pedal board and amp then the timing will go out the window.

Be aware that the kit you bring and how long it takes to set up is crucial to the running of the day..!

TTony · April 2018

I'm proposing that the backline IS the backline in the performance room. That way levels can also set for the recording and we maximise playing time.

This is about playing as part of a band - not obsessing about "your" sound.

@poopot can remind us of whats there to use, and we can either jointly choose to use that, or jointly choose to use something else.

Bridgehouse · April 2018

TTony said:

I'm proposing that the backline IS the backline in the performance room. That way levels can also set for the recording and we maximise playing time.

This is about playing as part of a band - not obsessing about "your" sound.

@poopot can remind us of whats there to use, and we can either jointly choose to use that, or jointly choose to use something else.

That was the plan in Huddersfield.. but er... well...

TTony · April 2018

But I can be a mean bastard if I'm organising something.

Bridgehouse · April 2018

TTony said:

But I can be a mean bastard if I'm organising something.

Like I say... Er.. well....

poopot · April 2018

TTony said:

I'm proposing that the backline IS the backline in the performance room. That way levels can also set for the recording and we maximise playing time.

This is about playing as part of a band - not obsessing about "your" sound.

@poopot can remind us of whats there to use, and we can either jointly choose to use that, or jointly choose to use something else.

We have full backline and drums there if we need it... I agree that in the live room we use what’s there otherwise the time will be used up swapping amps and sorting levels etc...

If I’ m reading the list correctly we need at least 5 guitar amps... based on come together and tush...

Im happy for folk to use my two ghetto’s I will email Kim and double check what is available...

peteri · April 2018

I’ll be bringing my AX8 all programmed so single line into PA and I’m sorted

Bridgehouse · April 2018

peteri said:

I’ll be bringing my AX8 all programmed so single line into PA and I’m sorted

@TTony - even a single gear change can take 5/10 mins out of the running order so we have to be careful

TTony · April 2018

Bridgehouse said:

peteri said:

I’ll be bringing my AX8 all programmed so single line into PA and I’m sorted

@TTony - even a single gear change can take 5/10 mins out of the running order so we have to be careful

Yup.

In the performance room, the backline *is* the backline.

We then need to think about the approach to pedal boards / fx boxes, etc. Do any of the songs on the list *need* any fx?

peteri · April 2018

Absolutely the songs I do need them.

I get we dont change the amps but a fair few of us have gone the modelling route - all you need is a hanging mono line to the PA, and if you want to bring a modeller you just plug into that

should be ok, no?

mrkb · April 2018

I’ve used pedal boards at previous events. Just needs a 240v extension cable available by each amp. Takes 60 secs to setup.

The issue has been when someone turns up with a kemper and wants to plug into a valve power amp return or cab- that involved cable swapping and risks cabs not being matched with amps (impedance) correctly.

Im happy to bring a FRFR for any modellers to plug straight into if needed.

slacker · April 2018

TTony said:

Bridgehouse said:

peteri said:

I’ll be bringing my AX8 all programmed so single line into PA and I’m sorted

@TTony - even a single gear change can take 5/10 mins out of the running order so we have to be careful

Yup.

In the performance room, the backline *is* the backline.

We then need to think about the approach to pedal boards / fx boxes, etc. Do any of the songs on the list *need* any fx?

I don't have a problem with using backline but it depends what the backline is. If its classic marshall, fender vox valve amp that's fine for a classic rock set. If its a boogie blackstar fender hotrod etc that's fiddley to set up time will be wasted in adjustments.

At quad we had limited backline and most people wanted to use my matchless.

I suggest we wait for the list and if its classic amps go for it and if not decide who brings what and stick to it.

I've just thought of a compromise perhaps we arrange to have someone on hand to set up the backline. If anyone can get me a decent sound on a mesa etc I'll use it.

Bridgehouse · April 2018

The thing is, and I speak from quite some experience.. no matter how fixed you make the back line, and no matter how quick plugging a board in *should* be..

it is inevitable that during the course of the session there will be delays as lit is swapped but doesn’t work first time, or someone wants to try an amp out or one of the backline amps stops doing what it’s supposed to..

I’m not saying don’t swap anything out, I’m just saying plan some time for it, and if you do want to bring a board, swap something out etc then make sure you know exactly what to do before you walk into the room.

mrkb · April 2018

Would be worth having a list of what’s available ready for people beforehand, I remember in Hudds there was a Boss katana stack that wasn’t used much as no one knew it was there. Surely four or so amps and a FRFR/PA input for modellers should suffice. Is there any kit at the practice room or are we using fretboard members kit? People brought loads to Northampton, don’t think we used any of the practice room equipment.

TTony · April 2018

Ahhhh - so this is why people organise one, and only one of these sessions ...

@poopot is checking what the studio has available for use. That will be published here.

If, for some very odd reason, the studio kit isn't generally suitable for the song list, and someone attending wants to donate their amp (which is generally more suitable) as a replacement for the whole day, then that's OK. They'll just need to be there nice and early so that it can be set up, levelled with the rest of the kit, etc.

But, once we have the backline defined - whether studio kit or attendee kit - that's it. No changes for the duration.

This is meant to be a fun session for all, not a logistical hassle that ends up with us having to cut the set list (and the playing opportunities) because we've spent the time swapping amps in and out instead.

slacker said:

I suggest we wait for the list and if its classic amps go for it and if not decide who brings what and stick to it.

Exactly this.

mrkb said:

Would be worth having a list of what’s available ready for people beforehand,

That's the intention.

List of studio kit, discuss, agree on any necessary changes, done.

MtB · April 2018

Glad I'm doing vox and rhythm!

Bridgehouse · April 2018

It’s worth remembering that the other room(s) are there for trying out kit, amps, boards and other stuff - the main room is about playing with others primarily..

peteri · April 2018

I wasn't suggesting trying out kit in the main room, but actually was expecting to be playing with others (which is unfamiliar to me) with familiar kit.

I asked this some time ago and was told I could plug into the PA in the main room, I do hope this is possible

Bridgehouse · April 2018

peteri said:

I wasn't suggesting trying out kit in the main room, but actually was expecting to be playing with others (which is unfamiliar to me) with familiar kit.

I asked this some time ago and was told I could plug into the PA in the main room, I do hope this is possible

Yes, of course it is - the issue is setting expectation over how long we need between songs for set up and how much time there is on the day for getting all the songs done on the running order.

In my experience, any common backline elements reduce the gaps. However, I would say that having the tracks recorded seems to add the most time.

Golder rule #1 tho - make sure the organiser/s on the day know what you want to do well in advance so we can plan accordingly.

Turning up 2 mins before a song starts with an amp, 2 pedal boards and a bag of cables will be met with some disdain and probably someone plugging you into the nearest amp and being advised to get on with it

mrkb · April 2018

Is this one being recorded properly, or just a mic at the back of the room jobbie??

TTony · April 2018

peteri said:

I wasn't suggesting trying out kit in the main room, but actually was expecting to be playing with others (which is unfamiliar to me) with familiar kit.

To be honest, the experience of playing with others, live, in a studio environment (which is the experience that we arrange these things for) is all going to sound and feel so different and unfamiliar, that "your sound" won't sound like your sound anyway.

If we were suggesting that everyone is going to be playing the same guitar, then I could understand the concern.

Playing all the right notes, preferably in the right order and at the right time (Eric&Ernie) is all that's going to matter. Do that, and it'll sound right whatever you're playing through.

TTony · April 2018

poopot said:

I will email Kim and double check what is available...

From the website;

Guitar Amps & Cabs
Marshall JMC800 100w lead
Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100w
Marshall 100w JMP super lead
Marshall 9000 series 200w lead
3x Laney LV300H 100w lead
7x 4x12 guitar cabs.

Guitar Combos
Marshall 50w JMP super lead 2x12.
Peavey Renown 100w 2x12.
Peavey Duce 120w 2x12
Roland GA120 120w 2x12.
HH VS 100w 2x12.

Bass Amps & Cabs
5 x Peavey FireBass 700 heads
3x Peavey TVX 410 cabs.
2x Peavey TX 410 cabs
Peavey MK6 400w head
Laney 2x15 cab.

peteri · April 2018

So I’m guessing - those that use pedals plug into one of these amps, those of us which entirely model (not in that sense believe me!) into PA?

i can bring my own FRFR but that seems just as bad as my own amp

sorry if I’m being thick

Bridgehouse · April 2018

peteri said:

So I’m guessing - those that use pedals plug into one of these amps, those of us which entirely model (not in that sense believe me!) into PA?

i can bring my own FRFR but that seems just as bad as my own amp

sorry if I’m being thick

Yep - DI into PA or desk of full recording.

peteri · April 2018

Thanks- happy!

slacker · April 2018

peteri said:

Thanks- happy!

I'm glad that you are sorted but please be aware that things can go wrong. Be prepared to plug in a strange amp at short notice. It generally doesnt happen but a couple of times I've had to ditch a pedalboard mid song and once an amp failed on the count in on the first song.

Playing out or with others sometimes involves these kinds of disaster and part of the experience is coping with it.

TTony · April 2018

The proposed backline for the performance room is;

Marshall JCM 800 + 4x12
Marshall JMP 100 + 4x12
Laney LV300H + 4x12

with a couple of combos also set-up and ready to go, for just in case

Bass through a Peavey MK6 400 head + cab

^^ That's using kit available at WaterRats.

If there's a general consensus objection to any of that kit, we can swap it out for an alternative brought by one of you/us. However, that alternative has to be generally agreed by everyone, must be left there all day for all to use, and whoever's providing it will need to be at the studio ahead of time on Saturday so that it can be set-up with the rest of the kit.

Please keep in mind that the primary purpose of the day is to get more experience of playing in a band/studio environment, live with no re-takes. It's not about trying to re-create the carefully crafted sound that you developed in your own home as there will be too many other factors affecting that anyway.

What matters is playing the right part, at the right time, with everyone else doing likewise, and not whether you replicate "your" exact tonal characteristics.

[edit and PS]

Should also mention that @peteri is bringing his AX8 which will be plugged directly into the PA for the duration.

So, if you want to play through that and can persuade peteri to add your settings to his unit for the day, then that's a further option.

darthed1981 · April 2018

TTony said:

What matters is playing the right part, at the right time, with everyone else doing likewise

Oh, bugger...

TTony · April 2018

darthed1981 said:

TTony said:

What matters is playing the right part, at the right time, with everyone else doing likewise

Oh, bugger...

You'll be fine @darthed1981 ;

(as long as you've been practising the 12hrs/day like you said you were going to since the last time

)

TTony · April 2018

Reminder, the setlist is here;

TTony said:

https://open.spotify.com/user/eoapdaw791qpsgnl2ph5yb5j3/playlist/0OKtibR3hnDhejp6wmhsSK?si=BRZIKmTTTemNEjZSogcJNA

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Water Rats 2nd Jun 2018 Running Order - DOORS OPEN 1130

NB - Studio doors open at 1130, first set will start at 1230.

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