F###ing band problems

johnnyurq · March 2014

I bet you do with a fine looking lady like your good lady.

But you are supposed to put the guitar down dude or risk it getting broken during vigorous sex. Multitasking is a myth.

roundthebend · March 2014

I gave up trying to be in a band a few years back. I had young kids and most people I tried to jam with had their own priorities which made it difficult to get productive rehearsal time together.
In recent years I found time to play solo gigs and my kids are now of an age where getting into a band is a possibility.
I did do a gig with a makeshift covers band a couple of years back and we only every had one rehearsal with the complete band. I think we did good renditions of the songs, so I'd agree that a covers band doesn't need to practise too much.

fretmeister · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

Oh, and I think good guitarists are as rare as good singers and good drummers.

Agree completely.

There are more mediocre guitarists than drummers / singers / bassists, but the good ones are just as hard to find as the other players.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

johnnyurq said:

I bet you do with a fine looking lady like your good lady.

But you are supposed to put the guitar down dude or risk it getting broken during vigorous sex. Multitasking is a myth.

I'm on my 56th acoustic!

guitarfishbay · March 2014

Where are you guys looking out of curiosity?

I used to think the same but when we started scouting for people at open mic nights (at the suggestion of someone on here) and going to more local gigs last year I discovered that there are plenty of good musicians - what it comes down to often is:

- they're a standout musician in a mediocre band (either the music isn't good enough or other members let them down)

or (at open mic nights)

- they're a solo performer with talent/a good voice but without the writing ability to back it up with the kind of songs that warrant multiple listens

In situation 1 the person is usually undervaluing themselves and in situation 2 they're over estimating their abilities - at least IMO. Or maybe they also have poor luck with meeting other people.

I really don't think being 'good' technically is that rare, assuming the bar isn't unreasonably high (i.e. virtuoso level). Actually creating something good musically is totally different though so it depends on what the definition is. I'm of course also not including the commitment factor here because you can't really judge that until you work with someone.

I should add though that almost my entire friendship group is involved in performing arts in some shape or form so I probably do meet a disproportionate number of musicians.

close2u · March 2014

Wow - I am not alone ...

Someone asked what happened ...

It ties in with this ... http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/3272/soul-r-b-motown-funk-get-their-feet-moving-and-bodies-grooving-set-list-suggestions-wanted

and this ... http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/9001/so-in-a-cover-band-situation-how-do-you-deal-with

and this ... http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/11640/here-s-a-set-list-what-do-you-reckon-how-best-to-order-the-songs

Failure to secure the services of a keyboard player meant a change of tack to become a guitar / drums / bass / vocals band to play pubs / clubs.

There were some changes to the set list etc but not brought about by the member who got the band started. Even though all said they liked the new stuff and wanted to follow this path to actually get out and gig, not every one committed to do their homework, to learn their parts etc. And, some resentment was obviously set-in and it brought about some snide comments and poor behaviour (which in turn led to some worse behaviour which led to much upset, a big talk and now the inevitable implosion.

Lixarto · March 2014

roundthebend said:

I gave up trying to be in a band a few years back. I had young kids and most people I tried to jam with had their own priorities which made it difficult to get productive rehearsal time together.

Very true; that's called Being An Adult.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Lixarto said:

roundthebend said:

I gave up trying to be in a band a few years back. I had young kids and most people I tried to jam with had their own priorities which made it difficult to get productive rehearsal time together.
Very true; that's called Being An Adult.

So by extension, anyone who finds - scrimping and saving - the time to do regular rehearsals isn't an adult?

drwiddly · March 2014

Drew_fx;190244" said:
Ahhhhh, I get mine.

I bet you don't get as much as @guitarfishbay - he's got a musical penis!!

bobblehat · March 2014

I think everybodys idea of what commitment means is different based on their personal circumstances.

For example if your single , have no kids , run your own business then you can dedicate all your freetime to the band.

If your band mate has two young kids and works shifts then just turning up to band practice once a week shows real commitment.

Inevitably one day his kids will be sick or he will have to work late and miss a rehearsal or gig. He will then be accused of not showing any commitment even though in reality he is making more effort than anyone else. This will ultimately.

lead to the demise of the band.

IMO its not question of finding people who are committed you just need to find band mates with similar personal circumstances and the same goals for the band.If you can only gig once a month then find band mates that also want to gig once a month,

Hope that makes sense

Cirrus · March 2014

Drew_fx;190487" said:
So by extension, anyone who finds - scrimping and saving - the time to do regular rehearsals isn't an adult?

Sounds like someone's got a chunky chip on their shoulder :P

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

No, I just can't stand passive aggressive wankers on the internet.

chillidoggy · March 2014

Our band has the same issues, therefore I guess I must be a passive aggressive wanker!

Generally, pressures of work, kids, holidays, injury (I currently have a wrist problem after I fell over), other band commitments and the like mean we don't get to rehearse regularly these days. Actually, we've rehearsed only twice since end of October, which was also when we gigged last.

It was much simpler when I was a teenager messing about with bands. You got home, went to your room, picked up a guitar, then mum called you down for din-dins, then back up to your room for more guitar. It does occur to me that might be how I did so poorly at school, but that's another matter.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

chillidoggy said:

Our band has the same issues, therefore I guess I must be a passive aggressive wanker!

Wrong end o' the stick chap. I'm not saying that going through that stuff makes people PAW's.

digitalscream · March 2014

Interestingly (and this might be for another discussion), in all the bands I've been in over the last 5 or 6 years the only ones I've known to turn up having not got their stuff done or learned, be regularly late or miss rehearsals without warning have been the members without family or a job.

It's not necessarily a case of commitment, but rather a case of being committed enough to get your shit organised. Yes, it might mean having less sitting-around-gawping-at-the-TV time, but that should be an acceptable loss. In my experience, the ones with busy lives (and often the least spare time) are usually the most reliable, because they're used to organising their day down to the minute.

Hell, I'm not the most organised guy on the planet and I work 12+ hour days, I have a family and I've had an ever-increasing number of crises and stress developing over the last year or so, but I've not once missed a rehearsal or failed to make good on my commitment to the band. That's not to say that I'm a paragon of virtue, because this should be expected - it's the minimum I'd expect of anybody in a band (particularly an originals band). If you can't do that, then all you're going to achieve is pissing off the very people who're helping you do something you enjoy. That doesn't seem to be a recipe for success to me.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

^ Wisdum dawg.

Paul_C · March 2014

I recall an originals band where there drummer was the most vocal about us all doing our bit to make the band successful, but also the one we considered telling that the rehearsal time was an hour earlier, so that he might have a chance of turning up on time.

Phil_aka_Pip · March 2014

Paul_C said:

I recall an originals band where there drummer was the most vocal about us all doing our bit to make the band successful, but also the one we considered telling that the rehearsal time was an hour earlier, so that he might have a chance of turning up on time.

We actually did that. It wasn't because he was vocal about commitment, it was because whenever you told him to be there, he would wait until that time, then skin up one last spliff before going outside to load the van. We used to tell him 1830 so that if we were lucky we could start at 2000. He was, however, a superbly good drummer and one of the best I ever had the privelige of playing with.

guitarfishbay · March 2014

digitalscream said:

It's not necessarily a case of commitment, but rather a case of being committed enough to get your shit organised. Yes, it might mean having less sitting-around-gawping-at-the-TV time, but that should be an acceptable loss. In my experience, the ones with busy lives (and often the least spare time) are usually the most reliable, because they're used to organising their day down to the minute.

Yep agreed.

I tend to find that busy people are good at maintaining being busy because that is what they do.

The problem I have is that busy and driven musicians tend to be busy playing music! The number one scheduling issue my band has is that someone needs to play a gig with a different band. We each play in at least one other project and on top of that we're all busy people generally. It means as far as rehearsals go they are planned on a week by week basis - we don't have a set night though we do meet at least weekly.

Personally I do something music related 5-6 nights per week and am regularly up late because of it - a lot of the time because I get in late and start work on music late because I can't sleep if I've got ideas buzzing in my head. Last night I was working on a track until 2am and that isn't unusual for me.

chrisj1602 · March 2014

I have always been there on time and I always learn my parts. I work full time, I got married last year, and have a little boy who is 2 next week. If I can't commit, I just won't do it (even though I might want to) and waste people's time.

randomhandclaps · March 2014

digitalscream said:

Interestingly (and this might be for another discussion), in all the bands I've been in over the last 5 or 6 years the only ones I've known to turn up having not got their stuff done or learned, be regularly late or miss rehearsals without warning have been the members without family or a job.

It's not necessarily a case of commitment, but rather a case of being committed enough to get your shit organised.

This is completely true. I have always been the 'driver' in any bands or project I've been involved in - still am, and it usually falls to me and one or two other to arrange everything. I am pretty obsessive and relentless. You organise around when people work etc and I've had plenty of band mates with tough, long working hours and/or kids who turn up after a full day with the shit together and rehearse for six hours straight. On the other side you get some selfish stoner who turns up with a bag full of excuses despite the fact you know the they have just sat on their arses since the last rehearsal. Ironically these are also the same guys who when trying to arrange a time that suits all are usually 'Hmm, I'm not sure.", whereas others try their best to shift around work etc.

I can't abide having my time wasted even to the point that when we used to get young bands turn up pissed, stoned or coked up it would piss me off. Others would tell me not to let it bug me as I was basically getting paid to sit around listening to them talk bollocks but I would always rather be working on actual music rather than watch a slow motion car crash. Since becoming a father, unless I really need the money at that point I very quickly walk away from crap like that. I am fortunate that a lot of the time I am working for others these days it's in the noisescape scene and they are usually mature and focused..... if maybe a little bit nuts.

Axe_meister · March 2014

I'm surprised there are not more weekend-warrior setups?

In fact the ICMP has now stopped doing them, I don't think Andertons run them.

Best way to get a temporary band experience without the politics

guitarfishbay · March 2014

randomhandclaps said:
Ironically these are also the same guys who when trying to arrange a time that suits all are usually 'Hmm, I'm not sure.", whereas others try their best to shift around work etc.

The 'waiting on a better offer' crowd... Totally useless as bandmates and eternally frustrating as friends!

Cirrus · March 2014

All I have to offer to this discussion really is that you have to learn how to read people and be honest and open about what you expect. I've seen so many people form originals bands with the intention of "making it", whatever their personal definition of making it might be. But they chose to be in bands with total morons who can't play, are talentless, and/or have no ability to organise their lives and get shit done. They have unrealistic expectations of these people, or perhaps that somehow life will just sort things out and the dream will come true. My experience has been that playing with people who are less committed and talented than you is a drag and stops you from developing.

In reality, you need to have high standards in both yourself and in choosing the people you're going to invest time and effort in. If it starts to become apparent that you're not going to be able to work with someone, it's much better that the band falls apart. The alternative is that you waste your time, you're unhappy and your band fills the world with terrible music.

If it's just for fun then that's totally fine, but my experience is that play time is pretty far down most people's priority lists. If it's serious business that's fine too, but business only works while it's in everyone's interests. If it's for love, well love is blindness and madness so you're going to be frustrated sometimes. You've just got to work out where on the continuum you want to be, and where your bandmates sit.

For me, it's for Love and Business. So I choose to be in a band that organises itself, has regular practices that are a high priority for everyone, regularly gigs and works towards goals/ makes plans etc. And in that framework I do what I love, which is writing songs and performing them. Luckily that's fun for me as well, but more importantly it gives me fulfillment.

I've been in bands for fun too - a cover and tribute band - and when my situation changed I was happy to walk away from them because it wasn't a high priority. I was quite open about that too, and am still mates with people from both bands.

And yes, I agree with @digitalscream. Everyone in my band has day jobs, a house, a partner and a life. One member over the last 5 years has gone through a few 6 month periods with no work, and it's always been those times that he's started having trouble with lateness or not being that dedicated to being really good.

Phil_aka_Pip · March 2014

I left a band that started out saying they wanted to do functions & weddings etc, but after they'd recruited singers, they started saying "just for fun". It wasn't "fun". Learning that crap wasn't easy and the only reason I bothered was the thought of getting paid for playing it. So after failing to interest them in gigs for which the offers were on the table, I quit.

EricTheWeary · March 2014

digitalscream said:

Interestingly (and this might be for another discussion), in all the bands I've been in over the last 5 or 6 years the only ones I've known to turn up having not got their stuff done or learned, be regularly late or miss rehearsals without warning have been the members without family or a job.

It's not necessarily a case of commitment, but rather a case of being committed enough to get your shit organised. Yes, it might mean having less sitting-around-gawping-at-the-TV time, but that should be an acceptable loss. In my experience, the ones with busy lives (and often the least spare time) are usually the most reliable, because they're used to organising their day down to the minute.

Hell, I'm not the most organised guy on the planet and I work 12+ hour days, I have a family and I've had an ever-increasing number of crises and stress developing over the last year or so, but I've not once missed a rehearsal or failed to make good on my commitment to the band. That's not to say that I'm a paragon of virtue, because this should be expected - it's the minimum I'd expect of anybody in a band (particularly an originals band). If you can't do that, then all you're going to achieve is pissing off the very people who're helping you do something you enjoy. That doesn't seem to be a recipe for success to me.

In my last band our keyboard player was certainly the most unreliable and least likely to have actually learned stuff although she was single, no kids,etc ( and was a music teacher, so not without access to a keyboard at times). We had a dep on a couple of occasions and in the end asked her to take over ( I don't know why we attracted female keyboardists).The dep being a single mom who had to arrange babysitters,etc,for gigs or rehearsals but none of the flakiness of the person she replaced.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

I left 3 bands when it became clear they just wanted to go into a room and make noise. No songs were coming out of it. Tacoma is only my 4th band, and the first band I played guitar for - previously I was only playing bass in bands.

I played some live shows for a female vocalist when I was at university; essentially her backing band. She was trying to get signed. In the end she went back to hairdressing.

chillidoggy · March 2014

Paul_C said:

I recall an originals band where there drummer was the most vocal about us all doing our bit to make the band successful, but also the one we considered telling that the rehearsal time was an hour earlier, so that he might have a chance of turning up on time.

And, being a drummer, you probably caught him every time.

close2u · March 2014

We were a covers band and I agree. 7 months and not gigging is ridiculous ... although there were mitigating circumstances ... personnel departing, change of direction etc.

But even with that, getting the songs tight and right took far too long with one person in particular asking, "How does this one go" about songs we had agreed we would learn.

Once gigging regularly, covers band don't really need to rehearse too much unless youre planning on bringing in new material and / or things are not working well.

markslade07 · March 2014

@close2u were you in the same band as me?! Sounds very similar to my experiences over the last 18 months or so

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