F###ing band problems

close2u · March 2014

Well there's another band gone down the shitter.

Seven months in, and just as we're about to start gigging.

Why can't people just behave decently.

Grrrr.

markslade07 · March 2014

Feel for you mate, surely it 'should' be a lot easier than other seem to make it sometimes.

I was in a band for 18 months or so, and we only managed 4 gigs! At the beginning of this year, I took the step of leaving as it was clear that some of the members weren't quite as committed as others, even though they said they were. Actions speak louder than words sometimes! Once I left, it became apparent that others felt the same and the band collapsed, just at the point where we were being asked to do 2 weddings. We couldn't guarantee that the band would still exist later in the year so we had to turn them down. I've just been sounded out about another wedding, but unfortunately, I don't have a band anymore.....which is a big bummer!

Good luck in finding something else though, fingers crossed the next bunch are a bit more decent!

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Guffage. What happened?

digitalscream · March 2014

close2u said:
Why can't people just behave decently.

Because musicians are assholes. That's the only conclusion I can come to, after so many bands have just fallen apart because of personal shit rather than musical or logistical issues (which, really, you'd think would be the main cause).

not_the_dj · March 2014

I obviously don't know what happened, but get gigging sooner.

Seven months is a long time for just rehearsing, and that's when people can start to get pissed off with each other or jaded.

ICBM · March 2014

not_the_dj said:

I obviously don't know what happened, but get gigging sooner.

Seven months is a long time for just rehearsing, and that's when people can start to get pissed off with each other or jaded.

Don't tell me… my band has gone beyond that point without a gig yet - getting on for a year. Just a lot of non-music-related stuff has got in the way - no-one's fault, but it's just what happens when a bunch of middle-aged guys with families, work, jobs and all that stuff try to do the same sort of thing as you do when you don't have any of that. Even getting a weekly practice without someone not being able to make it due to other commitments is proving hard. (It was me this week, which I don't like.)

We should have been gigging months ago. It was just supposed to be a fun covers band to get out and play live for beer money at best, too. I've been in originals bands where we've written an entire set of new material and been out playing quicker… but that was fifteen years ago.

RocknRollDave · March 2014

Seriously, in a covers band you don't need a lot of rehearsal.. Rehearsing every week for months on end is simply not necessary, unless you are making huge structural and arrangement changes to all of the songs.

Just my two cents

guitarfishbay · March 2014

It depends if it was an originals band or a covers band.

7 months of rehearsals for a covers band is a long time without a gig. 7 months to start an originals project from scratch while everyone has jobs isn't anything out of the ordinary if you really care about the end result and are aiming to take it seriously.

RocknRollDave · March 2014

guitarfishbay said:

It depends if it was an originals band or a covers band.

7 months of rehearsals for a covers band is a long time without a gig. 7 months to start an originals project from scratch while everyone has jobs isn't anything out of the ordinary if you really care about the end result and are aiming to take it seriously.

Totally agree - An originals band is a totally different kettle of fish, isn't it?

ICBM · March 2014

RocknRollDave said:

Seriously, in a covers band you don't need a lot of rehearsal.. Rehearsing every week for months on end is simply not necessary, unless you are making huge structural and arrangement changes to all of the songs.

Just my two cents

You don't need to tell me that either!

Especially as the point for me was that it was meant to be "loose covers" - ie playing recognisable songs but in our own haphazard style…

I think we were ready to gig after a couple of months, but somehow it was never quite possible.

RocknRollDave · March 2014

ICBM said:

RocknRollDave said:

Seriously, in a covers band you don't need a lot of rehearsal.. Rehearsing every week for months on end is simply not necessary, unless you are making huge structural and arrangement changes to all of the songs.

Just my two cents

You don't need to tell me that either! Especially as the point for me was that it was meant to be "loose covers" - ie playing recognisable songs but in our own haphazard style…

I think we were ready to gig after a couple of months, but somehow it was never quite possible.

Got you. Feeling your pain - been there too. Sucks big time.

PolarityMan · March 2014

ICBM said:

Especially as the point for me was that it was meant to be "loose covers" - ie playing recognisable songs but in our own haphazard style…

I wonder if that objective is more likely to attract people who aren't as willing to put the graft in?

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

An originals band isn't really a total different kettle of fish. Very often there is one or two people that guides the band, the rest just add their sprinkles over the top of it. It is still incumbent upon every individual to pull their weight.

It takes dedication. Much more than "Oh, Thursdays is band night for three hours..."

Bollocks to that. You should be getting together every weekend to do stuff, regardless of kids, family, and all that. If you can't do it, then you shouldn't be in a band. It really is that simple. I am really tired of seeing musicians approach live music in a haphazard and half-hearted fashion. Just fuck off. You're not adding to the live music scene at all. You're killing it with your apathy and eagerness to compromise.

The same can be said of the audience.

Not aimed at anyone in particular. I've just seen lazy musicians complain for too many years to be able to sit back and nod my head in tacit agreement. No.

ICBM · March 2014

PolarityMan said:
I wonder if that objective is more likely to attract people who aren't as willing to put the graft in?

The theory was that it meant that we could just basically go out and play songs we already knew, with the minimum of having to learn precise arrangements.

It's not lack of graft actually, it's personal circumstances beyond intentional control. Jobs, family stuff, important other commitments where the parties involved in organising those don't seem to understand that people have lives and need reasonable notice for changes, that sort of thing. I can't blame anyone, it's just frustrating and demoralising.

This week I had to cancel because I have two different school meetings in the same week (High School and Primary - it would have been three except that I had to move my kid's violin lesson to the third one, which means I can't do music that night either), and the only other possible day the drummer can't do. Repeat for other band members in different combinations more or less every other week…

This is why I don't want to commit to being in an original band any more, hence why the idea of a loose-covers band seemed like a good one. It just hasn't worked out like that.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Maybe I'm just an asshole. I get pissed off when people in our band organise themselves holidays.

)

RocknRollDave · March 2014

@Drew_fx I agree with that in regard to an originals band where your aim is to constantly build upon a fanbase and achieve some kind of artist and/ or commercial goal (e.g. being able to make your living from it)

The reason I think this is different for a covers band is that the material is already laid out for you and all you have to do is learn your part, subject to the odd key change or arrangement issue (e.g. agreeing on an ending for a song where the record fades out). When I say months of rehearsal are not required, I'm not saying "just throw something together, that'll do"..I'm saying that competent musicians should be disciplined enough with their own time to study and learn their parts (and communicate between themselves) so that they don't have to play the same songs repeatedly together in a room they are paying for in order to get the songs together.

Doesn't mean there's no work involved, but for me homework is more vital in this case than studio time, whereas for an originals band both are equally important, as you say.

guitarfishbay · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

An originals band isn't really a total different kettle of fish.

Yes it is.

Unless you're making large structural or arrangement changes to a song a covers band is just copying material that has already been written and refined. The learning material probably also exists too - tabs/sheet music/youtube lessons. Even then, rearranging music that already exists is much easier (IMO) than creating new music - which in theory you will rearrange several times until it sounds good enough.

So unless a new band can write and refine music at the same pace a covers band can learn it then there is no way the time investment requirements are the same.

That is before we get to the business side of things - recordings, music videos, PR, photos, logo, website etc. The audio/visual quality expected of originals bands these days is really high. The content needs to be great too but that has always been a given. Put simply you have to either invest or have already invested the time and money in learning how to get a professional result or you have to pay for it. Maybe I'm overplaying this but I honestly believe there is no point in releasing something that sticks out as amateur production-wise these days. The same probably goes for covers bands but I just can't imagine the creative side of production needing as much thought as an originals project.

Finding people who are willing to invest the time and money into a serious originals project is pretty hard IME, unless you already know them. Again I can't imagine it takes as long to recruit new members to a covers band.

not_the_dj · March 2014

guitarfishbay said:

Again I can't imagine it takes as long to recruit new members to a covers band.

Guitarists are ten a penny, decent singers are the tricky bit, especially a decent singer who is also a good frontman, and to me that's the difference between a good covers band and a great one.

Handsome_Chris · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

Maybe I'm just an asshole. I get pissed off when people in our band organise themselves holidays. )

And?! Do you expect them to organise your holidays too? Selfish, @Drew-FX, very selfish. >:D<

EricTheWeary · March 2014

not_the_dj;190115" said:

guitarfishbay said:

Again I can't imagine it takes as long to recruit new members to a covers band.

Guitarists are ten a penny, decent singers are the tricky bit, especially a decent singer who is also a good frontman, and to me that's the difference between a good covers band and a great one.

+1. And if a decent singer is doing it for the money they are often better off without an actual band behind them. £200 for you and your MIDI files or £200 for you and the four drunks with instruments?

I have sometimes wondered if a tribute band is in some ways the simplest. You have a finite pool of songs you can make your set list from and once you know who you are ( I'll be George, you be John, etc)you know what you have to learn as well. How musically simple of course depends on who you are tributing. Or maybe it's just a different set of headaches.

guitarfishbay · March 2014

not_the_dj said:

guitarfishbay said:

Again I can't imagine it takes as long to recruit new members to a covers band.

Guitarists are ten a penny, decent singers are the tricky bit, especially a decent singer who is also a good frontman, and to me that's the difference between a good covers band and a great one.

In my experience it really comes down to personalities and work ethic as far as choosing band members goes. People can improve their skills within reason but personalities are generally more rigid.

I actually think there are a large number of people who are competent or beyond on their instrument of choice (including singers) but the number who are competent + professional/able to work well in a band setting + willing to commit the time (& money) + exciting live + creative is a lot smaller.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Handsome_Chris said:

Drew_fx said:

Maybe I'm just an asshole. I get pissed off when people in our band organise themselves holidays. )

And?! Do you expect them to organise your holidays too? Selfish, @Drew-FX, very selfish. >:D<

Well to be fair... I go to the office... I QA music software. I write audio demos, presets. I test e-kits when we get them. I use our in-house studio at times. I play with synths. I eat lunch. I go home. I pick up my acoustic. Or my electric. I record some riffs. Sometimes an entire song. I'll do that up until about 11 o'clock. Then I'll sit in bed with a laptop and watch some crap on Netflix.

Now of course it isn't every single night. I do go out on the lash quite a bit, have drinks or food with friends. Take the wife out for a meal, go to museums, go on holidays or business trips. But I'd say at least three nights a week (not including band practices) I will dedicate the entire evening to writing and recording music.

I also don't sleep too well, so I often will wake up around 4am-ish and end up doodling away with headphones on, cocking about with Korg Gadget on my iPad or whatever.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why anyone who professes to be a musician doesn't spend every waking hour of their life involved in it somehow. But hey... this is my crutch of irrationality. I know it doesn't make sense, and that it's slightly ignorant, ill-willed, and not very empathic... but it is what it is.

Regarding the covers band versus originals... what I was trying to get at is that even in an originals band, one or two people will dominate the songwriting aspects of things. The rest of the guys will often just be learning parts, like they do in a cover band situation. I know there ARE differences, but I don't think they're so foreign to each other as you'd assume.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Oh, and I think good guitarists are as rare as good singers and good drummers.

failed_astronaut · March 2014

I feel Close2u's pain, I walked away from my last covers band after our hogmanay gig after almost a year. In that space we played 1 gig, 1 showcase and just about scraped together 2x45 minute sets. Three months later they've a new drummer, a piano player in my place, no website, no twitter presence, their image is a shambles and they're still claiming to be one of the best on the circuit!

I agree with Drew regarding originals, it's the songs/songwriters that keep them going. Having joined/jammed/quit several bands with guys that had two songs and that one riff, unless the songs/ideas keep coming, it gets boring very quickly.

I'm in a Police tribute now and that's feeling a lot more like my speed - a nice balance between musically complex and crowd pleasing, great guitar parts, uncomplicated line-up, the other two guys are a bit older so aren't going to fanny about and no-one is going to ask me to play Brown Eyed Girl!

Phil_aka_Pip · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

Well to be fair... I go to the office... I QA music software. I write audio demos, presets. I test e-kits when we get them. I use our in-house studio at times. I play with synths. I eat lunch. I go home. I pick up my acoustic. Or my electric. I record some riffs. Sometimes an entire song. I'll do that up until about 11 o'clock. Then I'll sit in bed with a laptop and watch some crap on Netflix.

he goes to the office, he QAs music software, he writes audio demos ... he eats his lunch, he goes to the lavatory

On wednesdays he goes shopping, has buttered scones for tea

guitarfishbay · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

Handsome_Chris said:

Drew_fx said:

Maybe I'm just an asshole. I get pissed off when people in our band organise themselves holidays. )

And?! Do you expect them to organise your holidays too? Selfish, @Drew-FX, very selfish. >:D<

Well to be fair... I go to the office... I QA music software. I write audio demos, presets. I test e-kits when we get them. I use our in-house studio at times. I play with synths. I eat lunch. I go home. I pick up my acoustic. Or my electric. I record some riffs. Sometimes an entire song. I'll do that up until about 11 o'clock. Then I'll sit in bed with a laptop and watch some crap on Netflix.

Now of course it isn't every single night. I do go out on the lash quite a bit, have drinks or food with friends. Take the wife out for a meal, go to museums, go on holidays or business trips. But I'd say at least three nights a week (not including band practices) I will dedicate the entire evening to writing and recording music.

I also don't sleep too well, so I often will wake up around 4am-ish and end up doodling away with headphones on, cocking about with Korg Gadget on my iPad or whatever.

I guess I have a hard time understanding why anyone who professes to be a musician doesn't spend every waking hour of their life involved in it somehow. But hey... this is my crutch of irrationality. I know it doesn't make sense, and that it's slightly ignorant, ill-willed, and not very empathic... but it is what it is.

Regarding the covers band versus originals... what I was trying to get at is that even in an originals band, one or two people will dominate the songwriting aspects of things. The rest of the guys will often just be learning parts, like they do in a cover band situation. I know there ARE differences, but I don't think they're so foreign to each other as you'd assume.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with here but on the off chance it is me -

I think you're possibly assuming things taking time = people being lazy. I just don't think that is always the case. Unless you get lucky there just ends up being bumps in the road, or perhaps I'm just quite unlucky with it. I just don't consider 7 months out of the ordinary but only due to my personal experience of external factors.

I'm not going to whip out my 'I put more hours in than you' musical penis but I think we're on the same wavelength as far as commitment goes.

)

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Awwwww.. perfect op for a "staff" double entendre.

Just making the point really that I think the diffrentiating factor between bands is committment, rather than writing originals versus doing covers.

I've met a looooooooooot of musicians who just lack the commitment and are a complete waste of time.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Drew_fx said:

Well to be fair... I go to the office... I QA music software. I write audio demos, presets. I test e-kits when we get them. I use our in-house studio at times. I play with synths. I eat lunch. I go home. I pick up my acoustic. Or my electric. I record some riffs. Sometimes an entire song. I'll do that up until about 11 o'clock. Then I'll sit in bed with a laptop and watch some crap on Netflix.

he goes to the office, he QAs music software, he writes audio demos ... he eats his lunch, he goes to the lavatory

On wednesdays he goes shopping, has buttered scones for tea

I DON'T FUCKING LIKE SCONES!!

(Actually I do)

guitarfishbay · March 2014

Drew_fx said:

Awwwww.. perfect op for a "staff" double entendre.

Just making the point really that I think the diffrentiating factor between bands is committment, rather than writing originals versus doing covers.

I've met a looooooooooot of musicians who just lack the commitment and are a complete waste of time.

Yep commitment is what it comes down to, no argument there.

johnnyurq · March 2014

Drew_fx;190204" said:
Phil_aka_Pip said:

Drew_fx said:

Well to be fair... I go to the office... I QA music software. I write audio demos, presets. I test e-kits when we get them. I use our in-house studio at times. I play with synths. I eat lunch. I go home. I pick up my acoustic. Or my electric. I record some riffs. Sometimes an entire song. I'll do that up until about 11 o'clock. Then I'll sit in bed with a laptop and watch some crap on Netflix.

he goes to the office, he QAs music software, he writes audio demos ... he eats his lunch, he goes to the lavatory

On wednesdays he goes shopping, has buttered scones for tea

I DON'T FUCKING LIKE SCONES!!

(Actually I do)

Ah but is it jam first or cream first?

The two types of bands are similar but over the years for me originals bands have been way more time and preparedness heavy than covers bands. Slightly differing nature of the two beasts in my experience.

You are right about commitment but again my experience of that was similar in both types of band and I don't think being in an originals band necessarily makes people work harder and put more in.

BTW your music regimen leaves little room for sexy times and wanking (maybe the same thing in some cases), all work and no wank makes Drew a grumpy bugger.

Drew_TNBD · March 2014

Ahhhhh, I get mine.

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