Am I being unreasonable?

geepers0677 · August 2013

After some opinions...

After much searching, I finally found a Yamaha Pacifica 612 (High end top spec pacificas, now discontinued - Seymour Duncan pups, grover tuners, made in Japan). I emailed the seller to double check the model and pup configuration.

It was on ebay and I bid winning it for £175, given the spec I thought this was very reasonable.

Anyway, it arrived today, and I was immediately suspicious as Yamaha's little model sticker had been removed. The pickups didn't say Seymour Duncan on them, so I got online with the serial number and found out it is an entry level Pacifica 212 made in Indonesia.

I've emailed the seller to say that I'm not happy - I wasn't after an entry level guitar, and wouldn't have been on it had I not been misled. If he hasn't replied tomorrow I plan to escalate it to ebay's resolution centre.

Now, here's the thing - a 212 sold on ebay recently for £150 BUT included a hard case. Mine has no case.

In the name of fairness, I've so far offered two solutions - send the guitar back for a full refund including postage - no harm no foul, OR send me a refund of £30 to bring the value in line with other 212s and it can stay as a spare/project...

Does that make sense? Am I being unreasonable? I kinda feel that I was looking (for months btw) for the 612 or 812 specifically and have been sold something I would never had bid for if the buyer was more accurate...

What do you think?

cheers

monquixote · August 2013

Pretty clear cut case of item not as described to me.

geepers0677 · August 2013

that's what I figured, but didn't want to come across as a dick. I think it's gonna have to go back and the search to be resumed...

JookyChap · August 2013

Yep, not as described and I'd send it back for a full refund as it isn't what you wanted and it serves the seller right...

dindude · August 2013

Not unreasonable at all, they are different guitars, at different proce points, although they look the similar.

geepers0677 · August 2013

Excellent - thanks guys. Will be sending it back to him tomorrow. Such a shame - I thought I was on to a winner!

viz · August 2013

Yes, it's as though he's sent you an office chair. It's a different item. Scammer.

tonyrath · August 2013

Sorry thats a ripoff - send it back

gilby · August 2013

Send it back and report him to eBay. Far too many dodgy people on it as it is.
I made an enquiry on a SG last week, but I thought they used a stock photo. I asked for the serial number and it' turned out to be 1930s acoustic made in a plant not in existence then !
Funnily enough it was withdrawn that day.

ICBM · August 2013

Make sure you get your return shipping costs back as well as the original shipping - you can do this through Paypal no matter what the seller might tell you - but *only* if you follow Paypal's instructions to the letter. You *must* ship it via a courier with signed-for delivery and online tracking, or they won't accept proof of return if he refuses the refund and you could lose your money and the guitar.

Play hardball too, don't try to negotiate. I wouldn't even accept £30 back to be honest - he's deliberately tried to scam you and deserves to lose out on the sale and shipping, whereas you should get every penny back. Report to Ebay and leave negative feedback when it's all done.

It's no different to if you bought a Gibson and he sent an Epiphone.

ChrisMusic · August 2013

Totally agree with the above remarks, sounds like a deliberate rip-off and a fraudulent misrepresentation to obtain your hard earned cash.

I would spare no quarter under the circumstances, it is blatant and outrageous behaviour.

Check your rights, and the correct procedures with eBay first though.

Yamaha do make exceptionally good guitars, and very under rated. Even the lowly 212s. Good necks and good build (I haven't tried the Indonesian ones yet), good value and play well.

Not what you paid for though, and you should love a 612 / 812 when you get one.

Good luck.

EdGrip · August 2013

Agree with everyone above - if this was advertised as a 612, then don't try to meet him halfway. He tried to shaft you and got found out. Report him, get your money back.

- Ed

EdGrip · August 2013

I remember when the 612 and the 812 were in the guitar mags. I was GAS'ing for one of them at the time.

Dave_Mc · August 2013

monquixote said:

Pretty clear cut case of item not as described to me.

+1

If anything you're being too reasonable by offering him the option of the £30 refund. I'd be sending it back for a full refund (including postage both ways).

geepers0677 · August 2013

Wicked. I've emailed him back and said I want to return it and get my money back. I've said he can either arrange a courier or I will. No response by tomorrow will result in escalation to eBay. I'm determined and spurred on by the thread. Thanks dudes!

Ps mrs geepers also just said that if I get my money back and hold on three months I can have a line 6 jtv 59. Even more incentive to get even with this seller!

ICBM · August 2013

No, don't let him arrange a courier! You *must* send it yourself using a trackable signed-for service. Anything else leaves you open to a claim that you didn't return it. Don't trust him not to do that since he's already proved he's dishonest.

Don't even accept a written receipt from a courier on pickup, it won't fly with Paypal. Read through everything on Ebay and Paypal about disputes before you agree to anything, and follow them strictly to the letter.

It's different to the Distance Selling Regulations for commercial sellers where you can insist they collect it.

Bucket · August 2013

YANBU.

geepers0677 · August 2013

ICBM;16170" said:
No, don't let him arrange a courier! You *must* send it yourself using a trackable signed-for service. Anything else leaves you open to a claim that you didn't return it. Don't trust him not to do that since he's already proved he's dishonest.

Don't even accept a written receipt from a courier on pickup, it won't fly with Paypal. Read through everything on Ebay and Paypal about disputes before you agree to anything.

It's different to the Distance Selling Regulations for commercial sellers where you can insist they collect it.

Thanks for the tip. Will book it tonight

geepers0677 · August 2013

Forgot to add - this seller claims to be a guitar shop with a real shop. But it turns out he sells some bits from a practice room.

OilCityPickups · August 2013

To my mind you are doing the right thing ... setting the dogs loose on arses like this might mean he'll not try and shaft someone else

geepers0677 · August 2013

Process has begun.

Emailed seller to announce intention.

Following ebay's return policy - seller now has to accept the return on the sale, but it is in the original listing that he would as long as I notified within 48 hours which I have done. He's terrible at responding to anything so now I have to wait up to three days for him to accept the return. Then I can post.

According to ebay, even though it is a shop, because it isn't a BIN price, I am liable for return postage - still, would rather lose £15 in courier fees than the £175 the guitar cost...

Lesson learned. Will update progress.

EdGrip · August 2013

He sold a cheap guitar as an expensive guitar - this is a scam. eBay should be notified THAT it is a scam, and HOW it is a scam, not just that the item didn't live up to your expectations. I would be surprised if you are liable for return postage under those circumstances.

dean2371 · August 2013

would you care to share the sellers name so others can avoiud the same problem?

ICBM · August 2013

You should still be able to recover the return shipping. If Ebay don't say so, open a Paypal dispute - Paypal are more effective than Ebay. Basically as a buyer you should be totally protected in this sort of case of a misdescription.

I've successfully recovered return shipping even when the seller refused to refund it. You have to jump through a few hoops and it takes a while, but it's worth it - to make the point to the seller as well.

geepers0677 · August 2013

that's great to know - I will definitely pursue it. I understand he has a few days to respond to the return request first, but the process seems clear. I'll give him until the weekend to accept the return or I will open a dispute.

hywelg · August 2013

ICBM said:

Make sure you get your return shipping costs back as well as the original shipping - you can do this through Paypal no matter what the seller might tell you - but *only* if you follow Paypal's instructions to the letter. You *must* ship it via a courier with signed-for delivery and online tracking, or they won't accept proof of return if he refuses the refund and you could lose your money and the guitar.

Play hardball too, don't try to negotiate. I wouldn't even accept £30 back to be honest - he's deliberately tried to scam you and deserves to lose out on the sale and shipping, whereas you should get every penny back. Report to Ebay and leave negative feedback when it's all done.

It's no different to if you bought a Gibson and he sent an Epiphone.

The system now is that if eBay agree with you they will provide you with a shipping label and you will just have to take it to one of the shipper depots (its one of those, can't remember the name, that have collection points all over). Paypal will then reimburse you fully, so stick to your guns, don't agree to send it at your cost, argue your case with photos and backup evidence and all will be well.

Antique_Guitars · August 2013

I used to own two 812w's, they were awesome guitars!

geepers0677 · August 2013

hywelg said:

ICBM said:

Make sure you get your return shipping costs back as well as the original shipping - you can do this through Paypal no matter what the seller might tell you - but *only* if you follow Paypal's instructions to the letter. You *must* ship it via a courier with signed-for delivery and online tracking, or they won't accept proof of return if he refuses the refund and you could lose your money and the guitar.

Play hardball too, don't try to negotiate. I wouldn't even accept £30 back to be honest - he's deliberately tried to scam you and deserves to lose out on the sale and shipping, whereas you should get every penny back. Report to Ebay and leave negative feedback when it's all done.

It's no different to if you bought a Gibson and he sent an Epiphone.

The system now is that if eBay agree with you they will provide you with a shipping label and you will just have to take it to one of the shipper depots (its one of those, can't remember the name, that have collection points all over). Paypal will then reimburse you fully, so stick to your guns, don't agree to send it at your cost, argue your case with photos and backup evidence and all will be well.

I'm ready to fight!

thanks for the info dude!

geepers0677 · August 2013

Antique_Guitars said:

I used to own two 812w's, they were awesome guitars!

yeah, I had one once, but traded it in a moment of silliness for something I no longer have...mine was the 812v though - brilliant player

geepers0677 · August 2013

Seller has accepted the return this morning... he also didn't even comment on the claim... he knows he was wrong!

viz · August 2013

Good work. Of course he knows - he's a guitar shop! Naughty arse. Well done.

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