Guitar String Madness!

Bellycaster · August 2013

I've never had this happen before in 20 odd years.

Here goes.

I replaced a thin "E" string (0.009") the other week, I had my brother get me one from town as a favour cos I had to work later than usual.

Anyhow the one he brought back was a Dean Markley "Electric or Acoustic" guitar string? Never heard of those but I stuck it on anyway as it was only gonna be for 3 weeks til next proper change.

On Friday I got the guitar out and it needed tuning slightly, so I unlocked the locking nuts and found the thin E to be waaaaay flat, it was as good as in tune with the locking nuts locked but saggy as fooook when I undid them.

It had been ok for a good 2 weeks. I rarely have to undo the lockng nuts as the guitar stays very well in tune but I thought I'd just give it a proper tune "nuts off" that time.

Anyway the damn string would not tune back upto pitch, kept getting higher and then would loosen again and again.

I doubt it's a quality issue as it's a 6 month old Ruokangas and has Gotoh SD91 tuners(see link) the string goes into a hole and then kink round the notch etc.

http://www.ruokangas.com/?p=6810

String was tight into the saddle too, I tried restringing it but the end of the string that was in the machine head was all bent and coiled as you would expect and I just chucked the string.

I'm wondering if it was a dodgy string or something.

Anyone had similar experience and have you ever heard of those Dean Markley "Electric or/and Acoustic Guitar strings"?

Cheers.

:-(

PS Edited: May now include "Nuts"

Not Tuna

:-D

BenSirAmos · August 2013

How old are the other strings?

Bellycaster · August 2013

@BenSirAmos

The original set of strings were put on in June, I change them every 3 months, but the original E snapped a couple of weeks ago, so I just got a single replacement.

Funny thing is the original E snapped by me practicing 16th note triplets (funk etc) and that's a new one on me too, to have a string break when strumming a chord. I mighthave been going at it a bit heavy though.

When the original E broke it was near the saddle end, if that helps.

maltingsaudio · August 2013

A nickel 09 is a 9 guage nickel string so apart from stating the obvious......... as to your tuning problem personally wouldn't blame the string plain strings either hold or break

[Deleted User] · August 2013

Sounds like it is slipping at the (hmm!) ball end. If you have a soldering iron and can get the ball end clear of the guitar, without damaging the string, run some solder along the windings next to it. Allow it to fully cool and tune back up to pitch. If it not holds its tuning, the windings at the ball end were faulty.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@maltingsaudio

That's the thing though, it wasn't "Broke" it was still firmly attached at either end and simply would not tune to pitch. I can't say I know much about whether it just kept "Slipping" so to speak.

Fingers crossed when I buy a new un.

ICBM · August 2013

As maltingsaudio said a plain .009" string is a plain .009" string, it doesn't matter whether you put it on an acoustic or an electric.

Why would you ever take the locks off to tune a string? Once you've locked them, leave them locked. The point of locking tuners is so that you can put the absolute minimum wrap - none at all really - on the post, which avoids the problem of the string wrap moving on the post. If you undo the lock, the string will slip.

Sounds like you threw out a perfectly good string...

Bellycaster · August 2013

@richardhomer

I've chucked the string anyway, Rich. The tuning mechanism is such that you cut off the Ball end. One plain end into the saddle blocks and then you insert the string into a hole in the machine head, kink it round a notch in the machine head and wind. It may be easier having a good pic of the tuners as my link only has the back of them shown.

I think you might see them on Show us Yours thread where my guitar is.

Cheers Rich

Bellycaster · August 2013

@ICBM

I can honestly say that I've been doing that for 20 odd years and no string as ever slipped, albiet with different tuning mechanisms. I decided to unlock the locking nut because I had tweeked the truss rod and just though I would give it a tune like that, maybe in my naivity I though I would be relieving any stresses caused by the tweek.

With the style of these tuners it probably is best to keep the lock nuts locked though, it's probably more prone to slippage than my wolfgang. On the Wolfgang you can leave the ball end on at the machine head, so no chance of anything going anywhere there.

The guitar plays fine anyway.

Cheers ICBM

maltingsaudio · August 2013

Just a comment and not wishing to raise alarm bells however once a string is stretched in it doesn't stretch any more therefor any change in tension is due either to slippage or neck movement

Bellycaster · August 2013

@maltingsaudio

You could be right, I did tweek the truss rod only slightly and adjusted the bridge height a mere tad, so that could be the culprit and the thinnest string is more likely to suffer for it.

Thanks.

[Deleted User] · August 2013

If the wrap at the ball-end is out of the equation, then it must have been inadequately locked at one end (or possibly both). The hallmark of a well set-up guitar in my experience, is that once the strings are properly stretched, it stays in tune. If it doesn't, other than for the reason I outlined, the fault is almost always with some aspect of the set-up (nut slots improperly cut/lubricated, wobbly saddles where height screw is correctly adjusted on one side but on the other is not touching the bridge plate, trem block binding in some way, etc)

String faults are extremely rare incidentally....

ICBM · August 2013

Bellycaster said:
I can honestly say that I've been doing that for 20 odd years and no string as ever slipped, albiet with different tuning mechanisms. I decided to unlock the locking nut because I had tweeked the truss rod and just though I would give it a tune like that, maybe in my naivity I though I would be relieving any stresses caused by the tweek.
With the style of these tuners it probably is best to keep the lock nuts locked though

Not trying to insult your intelligence, but -

You should *always* keep the locks locked once you've put the strings on. If they've never slipped in the past, are you actually wrapping the string on the post normally as well? If so, that somewhat defeats the point of the locks! If locking machineheads are strung correctly and then unlocked, it's pretty much guaranteed the strings will slip since there's no wrap to hold them.

You should pull the string tight through the post, then lock, then tune up. There should really be no wrap on the post at all.

maltingsaudio said:
Just a comment and not wishing to raise alarm bells however once a string is stretched in it doesn't stretch any more therefor any change in tension is due either to slippage or neck movement

Exactly - 'stretching' is usually due to the coil of string on the post tightening, hence why locking tuners avoid the problem.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@richardhomer

Could be then. I hope I didn't mess things up making my tweeks, I did everything by the manual and it was only slight anyway.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@ICBM

thanks for the tips but we might be getting mixed up here.

The tuners are not "Locking Tuners" it is a locking trem system. I meant the 3 nuts you open with a hex key at 0 fret.

The Gotoh sd91's are non locking tuners and the manual states you should cut about 2 inches of string past the tuner so you would have some wrap around.

The guitar in question is on Page 3 of show us your thread, it might show the tuners clearer.

Thanks.

Lew · August 2013

you only change your strings once every 3months? 0_0 I'd suggest changing 'em once a month atleast for a start!

mike_l · August 2013

I've used Dean Markley's for years without problems, even with trems.

I've had problems with snapping the high e when stretching them, but I suspect, that down to ham-fastenedness rather than bad strings.

ICBM · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
thanks for the tips but we might be getting mixed up here.
The tuners are not "Locking Tuners" it is a locking trem system. I meant the 3 nuts you open with a hex key at 0 fret.
The Gotoh sd91's are non locking tuners and the manual states you should cut about 2 inches of string past the tuner so you would have some wrap around.
The guitar in question is on Page 3 of show us your thread, it might show the tuners clearer.
Thanks.

Ha.... you did say locking *tuners* though!

Yes, if it's a locking nut then you should be able to unclamp it without the strings slipping if they're fitted normally on the posts.

If that one was slipping, sometimes they do with no rhyme or reason - occasionally on a post which has never done so before if its just got a bit worn so there isn't a sharp edge to grab the string. (I think stickyfiddle had the same problem recently, maybe when we were on the temporary forum.)

The simple solution to that is to lock-wrap the string, as a lot of people do anyway since it also minimises the amount of string you need to put on the post. On a post with a hole through it, take the uncut end of the string round the far side of the post the 'wrong' way and pull it up under the main part of the string. On a post with the slot and a centre hole down the middle, take the string the wrong way round the post for half a turn then back across the slot, and then wind on normally.

Paul_C · August 2013

It used to amuse me to put the "ball" end through the tuner on a Floyd Rose (or similar) bridge, especially with D'Addarios.

Fez · August 2013

I've used Dean Markley strings for years but lately I think they don't seem to be as good as they used to be.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@ICBM

Ah, sorry I did write that, I'll edit it later so save confusion.

Just to clear up your advice on avoiding slipping

On a post with a slot and a hole down the middle, you mean you insert the string in the hole first and then take the string the wrong way round the post for half a turn then back across the slot, and then wind on normally.

Just wanted to make sure that's what you meant, you know what I'm like!

Thanks again

fretfinder · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM
Ah, sorry I did write that, I'll edit it later so save confusion.
Just to clear up your advice on avoiding slipping
On a post with a slot and a hole down the middle, you mean you insert the string in the hole first and then take the string the wrong way round the post for half a turn then back across the slot, and then wind on normally.
Just wanted to make sure that's what you meant, you know what I'm like!
Thanks again

You mean I've been doing it 'wrong' all these years?! I've never heard of that method before. I just put the string in the slot and wind it on the normal way and I've never had any problem with my Fenders going out of tune or suffering string slippage. For Gibbo tuners and the like, that have a hole in the post, I go through the hole, back the wrong way half a turn, and then trap the end under the string as you tighten. Works a treat for me.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@Lew

I would have said it depends on the hours of playing time. I'm not a gigging musician.

I only play ay home and have 2 guitars, so my playing time for each gutar over 3 months is approx 80 hours. I use Elixirs and they don't sound bad at all even when I'm getting round to changing them. I wipe the strings everytime I play and don't have grubby hands when I touch the guitar.

Bellycaster · August 2013

@fretfinder

It's the first guitar I've had with these tuner types too. My Wolfgang has the hole through the post.

ICBM · August 2013

Bellycaster said:

Just to clear up your advice on avoiding slipping
On a post with a slot and a hole down the middle, you mean you insert the string in the hole first and then take the string the wrong way round the post for half a turn then back across the slot, and then wind on normally.

Yes, that's correct.

fretfinder said:
You mean I've been doing it 'wrong' all these years?! I've never heard of that method before. I just put the string in the slot and wind it on the normal way and I've never had any problem with my Fenders going out of tune or suffering string slippage.

Most of the time it works fine, yes. Just occasionally you get either a post or a string that just won't grip like that though - only ever on the top two strings, I've never even had it on a plain G. The half-back-turn-and-across-the-slot method always fixes it, and most importantly doesn't tie up the string in some nasty complicated way that makes it hard to get off again... like some of the "patent stringing methods"

you see do.

Lew · August 2013

Didn't realize you used Elixirs, sorry. Still seems a bit long :-p my strings last about two weeks :-( guess I'm a sweaty pig

Bellycaster · August 2013

Cheers @ICBM

Bellycaster · August 2013

@Lew

I guess it's just horses for courses. Someone who gigs twice a week would need to change them regular I guess.

Do you put in a lot of hours?

Going back years when I was in a band, our Bass player was always skint (out of a job etc) and he used to Boil or "Heat close to Boiling" his Bass strings and they did actually sound like new strings. I don't know if the nickel coating prevented rust but they never rusted from being in water. I guess as long as he only put them in a short while and dried them thouroughly, it must have made things OK. I don't know how many "Boils" per set he got though.

I suppose being a Bass player and being out of a job is not good on your purse when it comes to strings.

Lew · August 2013

Hour or two a day. Waiting on a string order at the minute, the ones on there are wanked.

Van_Hayden · August 2013

I've had this on a Floyd. Turned out to be the saddle slipping - what's your bridge?

Bellycaster · August 2013

@Van_Hayden

IIRC it's a Gotoh 1996T

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