Playing via In Ear Monitors

Teetonetal · November 2021

Looking for a bit of guidance on this one...

I have just joined a party band , it's a 10 piece funk rock band with a full horn section. The band is currently using in-ear monitoring as they have found this the easiest way for them to rehearse in a small space.

At my audition, I took along my Pleximan, and they miced up the cab, giving me a monitor box with me + band mix. Issue was, that given how small the practice room is, I had to have my amp running pretty low., which was not ideal. For the rhythm stuff it was fine, but solos lacked any kind of sustain.

So now I am thinking about the best way to handle this, my thought is that this is the ideal setup for a modeler, such as the L6 Helix, now I do have one, but it's really the heart of my home setup and I do not want to be unplugging and plugging it in again on a weekly basis. For my upcoming rehearsals I will do this , but I need another long term solution. I can't afford a 2nd helix!!

I need a clean, crunch and solo sounds, along with delay, compressor, tremolo and wah

For live, they mic everything up and push the whole band through the PA, so modelling seems to be the answer...

I'm considering:

Get a HX stomp and add it to my pedal board. I guess I could link it to my Es5 and control it via midi to switch between clean and dirty sounds? It's not got enough switches to use standalone.

Go all pedal and get an IR loader and Cab Sim pedal to stick at the end of my board, so they can take a line out - not exactly sure how this would sound clean. I have a Gurus dd1959 which I could use as amp sim, but the clean would not have a preamp...

How have you tackled setting up for In Ear?

FarleyUK · November 2021

Could you use Helix Native for your home setup...?

Teetonetal · November 2021

@FarleyUK , yes from a pure FX and sim POV, however, I have the helix setup as an audio box, I'm using all the FX loops, plus I have a synth connected - it's functioning as a mixer, audio interface and outboard DSP...

The other approach would be to replace the helix at home with something else.

Musicwolf · November 2021

How hard is it to unplug and re-plug your Helix?

In the studio mine sits on the floor in front of the rack and it has power (IEC), USB, MIDI, main out, 2x sends, 1xreturn and guitar in. That's 8 connections to break / make which takes me less than 60 seconds.

The key is all the connections are at the Helix end so, when I take the Helix away, all the cables are left. The other trick is to mark the connections on the back with little colour coded dots (the little self-adhesive paper dots that you get from the stationers). This also makes life easier when I'm hooking stuff up at rehearsals / gig.

Musicwolf · November 2021

Teetonetal said:

@FarleyUK , yes from a pure FX and sim POV, however, I have the helix setup as an audio box, I'm using all the FX loops, plus I have a synth connected - it's functioning as a mixer, audio interface and outboard DSP...

The other approach would be to replace the helix at home with something else.

Time how long it takes you to disconnect and reconnect than multiply this by the number of times pa you expect to do this and put a value on this using whatever your current salary works out at per hour. Then compare this with the cost of an alternative setup.

Teetonetal · November 2021

@Musicwolf It's no that it's difficult as such, mine also sits on the floor and connections are accessible. I am wary of constant unplugging and plugging in.

I was ideally looking for a setup I can leave in the practice room (the space is rented exclusively by the band) so walk in / walk out.

guitarmangler · November 2021

Could you just get a pod go and use it as an amp/it loader and just run your pedals straight into it ? Or buy a second hand helix lt and just use that ?

Roland · November 2021

There’s a benefit from performing, rehearsing, and practicing using the same equipment. It sounds similar and any effect settings, such as timed delays, are the same. I use my AxeFX that way. Unplug the morning of a gig, and re-plug the day after.

On stage, with IEMs and everything going through the PA, I still use my own backline. I don’t know what the Helix does, but the AxeFX front panel has separate volume knobs for backline and PA. With an on-stage speaker my guitar is more lively. Sustain comes from the AxeFX settings, but there’s always a cabinet there if I want to provoke feedback. The backline also means that anyone dancing directly in front of the stage, and out of the PA’s line of fire, can still hear the guitar clearly.

Danny1969 · November 2021

I use the Pod Go and IEM's in a professional tribute band, we don't use any guitar or bass amps it's all direct into PA. The Pod Go has the same amp models as the Helix and many of the same effects. It doesn't have the same amount of IO but that's not something I or most people need in a live environment. I use around 5 different banks each containing clean, crunch, solo and harmonized thirds patch's.
The Pod Go then is fed to a stereo Radial transformer DI and fed into the desk in stereo.

For decent in-ear mixes you need a stereo source from the mixer such as 2 aux channels, one for left and one for right. Then you need some means of controlling that mix. Then you need some means of getting that mix amplified with a headphone amp and sent to your ears.

Generally most bands now use a digital desk of some kind which has enough aux sends for IEM's to have individual mixes. Then there's always an ap you can run on your phone that can control your iEM mix.

Then you either use an IEM transmitter and receiver or you can use a simple headphone amp on the floor and run the IEM signal up alongside your guitar cable or use a proper built combiner cable like this one

Image: https://www.thesuperheroesonline.co.uk/iemver4.jpeg

Playing pure with IEM's with no backline can take a bit of getting used to and if you want to enjoy a decent experience then my tips are

Either go full on expensive Sennheiser G3 / G4 transmitter and receiver or use a combiner cable. Cheap IEM radio systems are rubbish and prone to noise. If you guitar isn't wireless then just use a combiner cable anyway as radio IEM's are pointless if the guitar isn't wireless.

Use stereo feeds and pan the band in your ears. The human brain can better separate frequencies if they are spaced apart in the stereo field and it sounds a lot better. This is why nobody mixes a record in mono

A couple of boundry mics on the floor either side of the stage can add in some ambience and vibe to your ear mix. Doesn't need much, just a little but it makes all the difference.

When setting up and sline checking use an open backed pair of cans rather than iEM's. That way you can monitor your guitar but still hear what's going on around you. Change to full on IEM's for the actual soundcheck songs though.

uberscott · November 2021

FWIW, I used Danny1969's posts on this in the past to build a new wired IEM setup (thanks Danny!) for my Quad Cortex. I couldn't be happier with this - a stereo IEM mix comes back from our desk (RCF M18), runs through my Quad Cortex (so I make quick volume adjustments), out of the QC's headphone out into my dual guitar/headphone cable, and from there into my IEMs.

I used to run a wireless Shure PSM300 IEM kit - it's taken a bit of getting used to being on a cable again, but the difference in having a stereo IEM setup is well worth it. I did my first gig with this setup a couple of weeks ago and it was spot on.

CaseOfAce · November 2021

10 piece funk / rock band.
Crikey - I can't imagine trying to find a place with guitar in the mix with that. Yikes.

Genuine question - do you think anybody else is going to hear tremolo or compression or even a delay on the guitar signal whilst a horn section is blaring away with drums and bass thundering in the background?
If it were me I'd be keeping it as simple as I could as regards guitar. I don't envy you this situation.

Teetonetal · November 2021

Some interesting thoughts... and thanks @Roland and @Danny1969 - there is a lot to think about there.

The good news is, the band has all of the gear already and have been playing with IEMs for 5 years, so the setup is good and I know they already have a digital desk to provide each member with individual mixes.. just trying to figure out how I can get this working for me as this particular way is new to me.

CaseOfAce said: 10 piece funk / rock band.
Crikey - I can't imagine trying to find a place with guitar in the mix with that. Yikes.

Genuine question - do you think anybody else is going to hear tremolo or compression or even a delay on the guitar signal whilst a horn section is blaring away with drums and bass thundering in the background?
If it were me I'd be keeping it as simple as I could as regards guitar. I don't envy you this situation. The word is space. 10 people in a band does not equal 10 people playing all the time (or at least I hope not)

Clearly, there is no need for me to be doing much when everyone is engaged, at those points the horns will be doing their thing and I need to provide space to them. I have a lot of very rhythmic, quite minimalist work to do, lots of popping, diads and triads going on. however, they have some rockier songs in the set list where it is really just a 3 piece at points playing and the guitar has lots of space to work in.

The audition sent chills down my spine when all the horns kicked in, it just sounds immense. I've always wanted to play in a band with full on horns

Will slowly see if I can get some mighty, mighty boss tones in the set

CaseOfAce · November 2021

Teetonetal said:

Some interesting thoughts... and thanks @Roland and @Danny1969 - there is a lot to think about there.

The good news is, the band has all of the gear already and have been playing with IEMs for 5 years, so the setup is good and I know they already have a digital desk to provide each member with individual mixes.. just trying to figure out how I can get this working for me as this particular way is new to me.

CaseOfAce said:

10 piece funk / rock band.
Crikey - I can't imagine trying to find a place with guitar in the mix with that. Yikes.

Genuine question - do you think anybody else is going to hear tremolo or compression or even a delay on the guitar signal whilst a horn section is blaring away with drums and bass thundering in the background?
If it were me I'd be keeping it as simple as I could as regards guitar. I don't envy you this situation.

The word is space. 10 people in a band does not equal 10 people playing all the time (or at least I hope not)

Clearly, there is no need for me to be doing much when everyone is engaged, at those points the horns will be doing their thing and I need to provide space to them. I have a lot of very rhythmic, quite minimalist work to do, lots of popping, diads and triads going on. however, they have some rockier songs in the set list where it is really just a 3 piece at points playing and the guitar has lots of space to work in.

The audition sent chills down my spine when all the horns kicked in, it just sounds immense. I've always wanted to play in a band with full on horns

Will slowly see if I can get some mighty, mighty boss tones in the set

Have you considered a Fender Tonemaster (deluxe reverb etc). Yes - they are pricey - but just take a line out from the back of one to the mixing desk / PA and you've still got an amp on stage for monitoring. It would be a lot simpler then going down the modelling unit too.?

firepaulmusic · November 2021

How about using your current amp with a Two Notes Captor X?

shufflebeat · November 2021

Unless your band setup is very conservative and your bandmates predictable then ANY system of IEMs should include a limiter. Otherwise you could very easily cause irreparable damage to your hearing.

Teetonetal · November 2021

@shufflebeat Good shout, I will ask them.

John_A · November 2021

CaseOfAce said:

10 piece funk / rock band.
Crikey - I can't imagine trying to find a place with guitar in the mix with that. Yikes.

Genuine question - do you think anybody else is going to hear tremolo or compression or even a delay on the guitar signal whilst a horn section is blaring away with drums and bass thundering in the background?
If it were me I'd be keeping it as simple as I could as regards guitar. I don't envy you this situation.

horns are ace to play with. Also, most horn players are very professional so if the guitarist has an important part to play they wouldn’t be blaring over the top of it, likewise a good drummer and bassist shouldn’t be thundering unless required.

Guitarists however!

mike257 · November 2021

shufflebeat said:

Unless your band setup is very conservative and your bandmates predictable then ANY system of IEMs should include a limiter. Otherwise you could very easily cause irreparable damage to your hearing.

Teetonetal said:

@shufflebeat Good shout, I will ask them.

If they're running a mixer capable of providing 10 independent mixes, it'll definitely be sophisticated enough to have dynamic processing on those outputs, so slapping a limiter across it should be a trivial task.

Jota · November 2021

In 2019 I joined a band and had a similar problem.
Got myself an HX Stomp and I'm pretty happy with it.
It's my all around FX thing when I use my real amps and it's my whole rig when I'm not using real amps.
An aux dual switch and a small MIDI switcher can add a lot of options to the unit without going full on big MIDI switcher.

Stratavarious · November 2021

My Marshall can run silent using the emulated out to the desk or I use it at modest volume as a monitor and I have a Boss GT as my other DI option.

+1 on some ambient mic to your Aux mix. It can sound really isolating without.

uberscott · November 2021

I've ordered a set of ACS's 'Ambient' vented IEMs - theory being that they let in a little ambient sound and reduce the occluded/isolated experience. Will report back on how they turn out, should be getting them next week.

uberscott · December 2021

Finally gigged with the ACS IEMs last weekend and was extremely happy with them - the ports let in enough of the drums (unmiced) for me to hear them clearly against the vocals/guitars/bass that were mixed in the IEM signal. Also could hear the audience at a clear (but diminished) level, so no real sense of isolation.

They were very comfortable and had no issues wearing them for a 2-hour gig. Ears were absolutely fine immediately afterwards and also the next morning, overall very impressed!

PolarityMan · December 2021

What's the benefit over putting drums in the IEM mix?

Roland · December 2021

IEMs tend to lose upper and lower frequencies. So having ports allows you to hear more of the thud of the kick, the snap of the snare and the sizzle of the cymbals. I find it easier to stay it time with the drums if I can hear that snap and thud. Last month we did a rehearsal where the drummer used an electronic kit, and I found it surprisingly difficult to pick up timing cues. Thankfully he was back using a mic’d snare last weekend, and I could hear enough of the snap even with isolating plugs.

Danny1969 · December 2021

I find having hi hat in my ears is essential for me on the bigger stages. Although I can hear some bleed from FOH and I have a bit of the vibe mics we use at the front of the stage piped in as well, that direct hi hat mic keeps everybody locked in perfectly.

KevKahuna · October 2022

uberscott said:

I've ordered a set of ACS's 'Ambient' vented IEMs - theory being that they let in a little ambient sound and reduce the occluded/isolated experience. Will report back on how they turn out, should be getting them next week.

I'm thinking of getting a set of these myself, how are you finding them after a few months of use?. I've been using Shure 535's with Snug moulds and Sennheiser G4 set up for while now but really like the idea of the 'Ambient' option. I play in a 9 piece with 4 piece horn section. Which ones did you go for? I'm thinking the Evolve Ambient 3 drivers should be good enough.

uberscott · October 2022

Yeah they're working great - probably did 15 gigs with them this year and have no complaints. I get a nice sense of the ambient sound and it's great to hear the crowd. They made a big difference in smaller venues where I'm right beside a bunch of cymbals, the IEMs do a great job of taking the edge of all that while still letting a nice balanced level of ambient sound in. So far so good!

I went for the Evoke2 Ambient models - I'm sure the extra driver would be an improvement but my hearing is terrible so additional range would be lost on me anyway!

KevKahuna · October 2022

uberscott said:

Yeah they're working great - probably did 15 gigs with them this year and have no complaints. I get a nice sense of the ambient sound and it's great to hear the crowd. They made a big difference in smaller venues where I'm right beside a bunch of cymbals, the IEMs do a great job of taking the edge of all that while still letting a nice balanced level of ambient sound in. So far so good!

I went for the Evoke2 Ambient models - I'm sure the extra driver would be an improvement but my hearing is terrible so additional range would be lost on me anyway!

Thanks for that, I think I've made up my mind and will be placing an order.

KevKahuna · November 2022

KevKahuna said:

uberscott said:

Yeah they're working great - probably did 15 gigs with them this year and have no complaints. I get a nice sense of the ambient sound and it's great to hear the crowd. They made a big difference in smaller venues where I'm right beside a bunch of cymbals, the IEMs do a great job of taking the edge of all that while still letting a nice balanced level of ambient sound in. So far so good!

I went for the Evoke2 Ambient models - I'm sure the extra driver would be an improvement but my hearing is terrible so additional range would be lost on me anyway!

Thanks for that, I think I've made up my mind and will be placing an order.

Just received my Ambient Evolve's through the post. Just in time to try out tonight

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