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Comments
Thanks for getting in the thread. I'm still looking for the "perfect" plectrum... so far I've found great results with Dunlop Jazz III max grips, but they're a little too small. Pure carbon fibre feels great in the hand but there's just a bit too much attack, although the way they come off the string is great. I've never used tortoiseshell (and won't, on principle) but the John Pearse casein picks are pretty close to what I'm looking for in terms of attack and release.
What do you recommend? I'm thinking that one each of the Precision : Strike Shuriken teardrop 1.4 and 1.75 for starters....
Hi Merlin,
Well, because of the opposing bevel, the Precision : Strike Shuriken picks play like they're thinner than they are. Given that you like the Dunlop Jazz III, I think that the 1.75mm is probably the one for you, and has been very popular. I have several customers who enjoy both the 1.75 and 1.4 (the 1.4 is a little brighter with a different character to the attack) and find they complement each other nicely.
I made some prototype casein picks while developing the Shuriken series; I preferred the tone of the Magma and Nuclear acrylic in this design. I've not experimented with carbon fibre for picks - the challenge would be getting a durable, smooth, polished finish (most carbon composites are very strong but scratch easily, making them not a great choice for a pick). I've also never used tortoiseshell, so can't really compare or comment.
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
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Just ordered a tear drop and a triangle....
Post back with your thoughts once you've had a chance to try them out - very keen to get your feedback.
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
Don't worry. Let me know how you get on with it - I'll be happy to swap it for the 1.75mm if you want to.
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
You did ask, so here goes...I do have some issues with these picks which I admit may be as much down to what suits me as it is down to the picks themselves. To explain the use case, it's bluegrass and flatpicking, dreadnoughts, generally medium strings and the name of the game is strong acoustic tone with maximum un-amplified projection
- compared to BC, Wegen or Charmed Life, your material must be a lot less dense because they have the weight of a much thinner pick - unfortunately sonically as well as physically when compared to the others. A thinner BC TP40 has a fatter tone than these 1.4mm picks (again...for the way I play...other experiences/uses may be different)
- a triangular pick with just one playing corner becomes a bit on an annoyance - would rather pay a bit more and have three playing corners on a triangular pick. They're also kind of small ... around 1mm smaller all round than a BC triangular pick
- If you look closely at a BC or Wegan, the edge of the pick opposite the beveled edge is also rounded. Not bevelled per se, but rounded off a bit. On your pick it's left pretty sharp and, for my style at least, that makes for some scratchiness. I've experienced the same with Red Bear picks which is why I don't use them
- The bevel on one of the picks is kind of rippled too, as opposed to perfectly smooth
On the positive side:
- super grippy material so they're not going to slip
- they look awesome and aren't the world's most losable brown colour like BCs
So they're not for me I'm afraid but I'm sure people with different uses to me will love them.
Thanks for trying the Shuriken picks and for your in-depth review. Firstly, it's true that not all picks work perfectly with every player's individual technique and style - and I have an idea why some bevelled picks including the Shuriken don't work well for you (see below). It's important to me that every Wolfram customer is happy, which is why I back all my products with a 14 day no-questions money back guarantee - please drop me a note via the Delivery & Returns section of my website and I'll arrange the return for you.
I also wanted to respond to some of your points:
This is interesting - I've not heard the Shuriken picks described as sounding light-weight before!
It's true that the acrylic I use is less dense than BC and CL's Vespel or Wegen's casein, but the density doesn't really affect how fat the tone is. During R&D I've made many, many picks from all sorts of materials (including casein), right up to the 11 gram solid tungsten carbide Shuriken (16 times heavier than the acrylic Shuriken); I've learned that the three things that really determine a pick's tone are the hardness/flexibility, shape and surface quality (polish).Yes, this is a point that some other players have brought up, while many are not bothered by, and one that I've spent a lot of time considering. It really comes down to design and economics.
The vast majority of the time and cost that goes into making a Shuriken pick is concentrated on getting the picking point absolutely right - it's not just a bevel cut into a flat pick, the point is sculpted (see photo) and all this shaping and polishing is done by hand. Doing this three times over would make the triangle picks significantly more expensive than the teardrops. Having said that, a few others have asked for it so I may well introduce a three-point bevelled version to test it out - I wonder how many customers would pay the extra given the choice.
Keeping the edge of the pick opposite the bevel sharp was also a design choice (and one that can only be made if the pick is hand-polished - machine mass polishing rounds off all the edges). Basically I wanted to give the player the maximum area of bevel to play with for the thickness of the pick, because it's this that enables the player to adjust the tone of the pick; flat onto the strings for a brighter tone, angling towards the bevel for more richness and playing with the bevel flat-on for the softest tone.
I suspect that this is the root of why the Shurikens (and Red Bears) are not working for your playing style: I think you may angle the pick slightly away from the bevel as you play, so it's that sharp edge which is engaging with the string, not the polished bevel. This is the only thing I can think of that would account for the scratchiness you mention - the Wolfram Shuriken's point and bevel are polished to a very smooth finish and the Red Bears are also very well made. If I'm right, you might actually find a left-handed bevelled pick will give you greater benefit of the bevel for your style and technique.
As for the size of the pick, I guess that's down to personal preference. I didn't copy BC or anyone else when developing the triangle and teardrop Shurikens - they're Wolfram original designs - so I'm not surprised that they differ from other picks.
I'll be interested to take a look at this when it comes back.Great! Yes, one of the reasons I chose this particular material was that it can be polished to a very low-friction finish while remaining grippy in your fingers.Thank-you for giving them a try! We took pre-orders from virtually everyone who tried one at the London Acoustic Show in September, and many customers have since been back for more - but no pick can be perfect for everyone and I'm sorry that they didn't work out for you.
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
Way to take some constructive criticism!
You should introduce yourself properly here: http://thefretboard.co.uk/categories/made-in-the-uk
I really like the edge, and find the attack really good, actually far superior to a Dunlop Jazz III, and the release from the string is excellent. For my playing style, there seems to be a softer release than with a Jazz III, but not as soft as with a John Pierse, but overall a middle ground is really what I was looking for.
May I trade my 1.75mm triangle for a 1.4mm teardrop? I've actually not played it for more than a minute as I like the feel of the teardrop and as they've both only got one usable point, I stuck with it.
Thanks for taking the time to have this dialogue. I hope you take my feedback in the constructive spirit it was intended.
Having read your response I went back and revisited what's going on with the edge/bevel - because I am comparing your picks to other bevelled picks that I use regularly so it seemed odd that it would just be the presence of a bevel itself that was the cause of the scratchiness I'm experiencing. Two things I found:
- I do occasionally "flick" up for an upstroke, meaning the sharp edge strikes the string and that's where the sharpness of that edge compared to "opposite edge" of other bevelled Wegens and BCs comes in
- but its also present on downstrokes where I am definitely playing with the bevelled edge and here I think the cause is the edge where the bevel transitions into the face of the pick. That edge, just like Red Bears, is sharper (not actually sharp per se, but sharper) than the softer transitional edge on the Wegens and BCs. I obviously favour an angle that is flatter than the bevel and hence that edge is more prominent that I'd like.
I imagine that these picks would be a godsend to some who uses elixirs and finds that their pick lacks bite because of the coating.
Thanks again,
LC
Yes, of course. Please drop me an email to the address on the Contact Us section of my website - that will reach me and I'll arrange your exchange.
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
Yes - I am always keen to get feedback on my products. Constructive feedback is the best way for me to continuously improve them, or define their particular strengths.
Yes, the Shuriken is designed to have a sharper bevel transition than something like the BC. My intention is to give the player the broadest possible control over the attack by varying the picking angle - you can get the Shuriken to really bite, or angle towards the bevel for a much smoother and softer attack.
That said, you're right, different picks and designs suit different players and techniques - diversity is the beauty of it!
Cheers,
David
Wolfram
Perfecting the interface between you and your guitar.wolframslides.com
For a bit of background, I'm fairly obsessed with buying and trying loads of new picks. To be honest, given that it's the point of contact between player and guitar and ALL subsequent changes in tone are dependent on it, I'm regularly amazed by how few of the guitarists I work with on a daily basis do the same! I have a huge tin of picks of all shapes, sizes and materials, and I have maybe 8 or 9 different types that I dig out regularly before we've even thought about using a different pedal, or compressor, or changing eq on the amp or whatever.
So when people balk at paying more than a quid for a pick, again I'm pretty surprised. Folk will spend a fortune on a cable that will make FAR less difference to the tone your guitar produces than the pick. There's a reason people will spend upwards of a hundred quid on genuine tortoiseshell picks - which, glorious as they may sound (they do) are a pain in the arse in terms of having to polish and maintain them.
When I first tried a Blue Chip pick I was totally sceptical about the claims, but to my amazement they really DID live up to the hype. I'm not convinced the lighter ones are a good idea - they no longer sound like tortoiseshell and actually don't sound very different from any number of other picks - but anything from about a 40 up really does found very like a good tortoiseshell pick (I have one here still for comparison, although I never use it now).
They really do respond to the string differently and are very fast on and off it - again, there's a good reason all the bluegrass guys are using them. There's also the fact they don't wear out.
I now have around ten, I think - mainly Jazz LG 40s (which are identical in size and thickness to my preferred Jazz III XLs) which I use mainly for electric guitar, but also a couple of thicker and/or larger ones for lead acoustic or mandolin.
They're not for everything, though - they are very pure-sounding, and often for electric guitar I'll want a bit of skrag to the attack, so I'll use my Jazz III XLs live a lot (I especially like the sound of them worn in a bit when they sound a little edgy).
It's safe to say Blue Chips have been my benchmark since I got them, and since then I've tried all the newcomers and next big things, and nothing has come close in all honesty...perhaps until now.
I've had varied experiences with the others, but it's usually the sound of the attack I can't stand, especially that maddening "chirp" that a lot of modern hard, heavy picks produce, which I find unusable, especially in a recording. The worst offenders were V Picks - I ordered a whole load of different types and spent an afternoon with them, I just couldn't stand them, chirping away every time it touched a string no matter the angle of attack.
Chicken Picks I quite liked the feel of, hated the sound of the attack. The big, thick ones that are like pressed polyurethane or something (can't remember the name) - similar experience. Red Bear lacked definition compared to the Blue Chip. Dunlop Puretone sounded good, but not as fat and clear as the BC, and I hated the grip.
Wegen were very interesting - the massive Gypsy Jazz one was a lot of fun, but a very specific sound and use. The one with the holes in it for grip and the bevelled edge, I actually like a lot - it's what I recommend for folk who won't shell out for a Blue Chip - but it just doesn't sound as good as the Blue Chip, and I'm not as keen on the size and shape.
Which brings us to the Wolfram (eventually! sorry...), a 1.4mm teardrop. Initially my findings were similar to Lewy's (I too, play a lot of bluegrass and country) although mine actually sounds fatter and warmer than even a large BC like a TPR-1 50, which is primarily what I put it up against.
The speed from the Wolfram is very good indeed, similar to the BC, which was a pleasant surprise. At first I was put off by the much softer attack from it compared to the BC - the BC just seemed much more precise and clear, with the Wolfram blurring the attack too much. There was none of that annoying thud that so many heavy plectrums have (which again renders them unusable for me) but the attack was notably softer than the BC, no matter how I angled it, and the scratchiness that Lewy mentioned was definitely there.
In all honesty at this point I was resigned to popping it in the huge tin like so many others, maybe to dig it out as a leftfield suggestion on a session one day, but I actually really loved the size and feel of it so it stayed in the case next to my BC.
And then...something happened. I was playing my new Gibson Advanced Jumbo upstairs in the bedroom while my girlfriend - who is also a guitarist - was in the bath next door, working out an arpeggiated part for a new song, when I played it on the Wolfram, and it sounded wonderful. The high strings, played up around the 9th - 12th frets, were rich and warm sounding in a way the BC couldn't manage.
I shouted through to my girlfriend and asked which sounded better to her without knowing which was which, and she far preferred the Wolfram.
This was interesting to me, so over the next few days I kept trying it in various situations, and kept coming back to it. There's no doubt it does have a softer attack than a BC, even when angled straight on, but it's a really nice attack, like a particularly lovely, natural compressor. Electric guitar parts sound rounder and fatter when they get to the top strings on arpeggios too. The claim they make that you hear the tone of the guitar rather than the impact of the pick on the string (which is sort of the holy grail in the bluegrass fraternity) is actually TRUE.
Very interesting indeed. I doubt they'll depose the Blue Chips for me entirely, but I HAVE used one live now and it lasted the whole set, which is extremely unusual! It's the first pick I've tried in years that I'll buy more of - actually I've done something rather rash in that regard, but that's a story for another day.
So, I thoroughly recommend the Wolfram, but make sure you give it a good try.
What I did do - and it makes it a lot more usable for how I play - is knock back that transitional edge so instead of looking like this:
It now looks like this:
Still a bit of fine polishing to do but that scratchy sound is gone now. I recognise David's @Wolfram comments that the edge was there as a design feature to allow the player to access that harsher attach creatively but that's too much to think about for me - I want to completely forget about the pick's existence when I play as opposed to have to make creative choices and technique adjustments along the way to avoid sounds I don't want...but getting rid of that edge (and also dulling sharpness of the edge opposing the bevel) has made this pick a viable option among the Wegens and BCs (and others) in the tin.
@StuartMac290 - would I have seen you play at any BG festivals...are you on that scene?
Interesting what you've done to the edge there - I might buy another to try that! What did you use?
Might be worth David @Wolfram considering offering that as an option, actually - I'd certainly be interested, and given that's two of us have said it was an issue for them to a greater or lesser extent, it's probably worth taking that feedback on board and should be pretty straightforward to implement.
Like you, I don't want to have to think about the angle my picking hand is at when facing a large audience. I appreciate the option and the sentiment behind it, but losing the scratchiness altogether might make this the perfect pick.
2-Pcs-lot-Sanding-Nail-Buffer-Buffing-Sandpaper-Files-Block-Acrylic-Nail-Art-Tips-Manicure-Nail.jpg
Cheap as chips from amazon. I use them a lot for getting flat picks and plastic fingerpicks how I like them.
Given that the Wolfram bevels are done by hand I would imagine this could be an option relatively easily offered? It would certainly broaden the appeal of these out to the bluegrass/flatpicking community who are used to the smoother BlueChip sound. Assuming, of course, that's a market of interest to David. You might look at BC, Red Bear and Wegen and decide that there's no room in that market ... although these Wolfram's do occupy their own price point (when buying in the UK at least), right between Wegen and BC.
http://i.imgur.com/5uha63Kl.jpg
I've spent quite a few hours on an electric with the green one now and we're getting used to each another. I got the 1.75 teardrops...so they fall right between my BC LG60 and LG80.
You can see brand new BCs in the image and also one of each with a couple of years play-wear on it. The BCs are definitely smoother and I prefer them on an acoustic. The Wolframs are brighter and it definitely feels like there's a little more contact going on. You can see the profile is quite similar to an older BC (but my BCs are only bevelled by use!).
When I broke out my new BCs (had them for ages), I realised just what I'd worn off the old ones...especially the LG80. The old LG80 is nice and dark but also a bit sluggish now. I was reminded just how direct a new BC feels.
I also got one of Wolfram's crystal files so things are super smooth when playing without a pick
I don't know how many notes per year I play but it will be too many
I switched back to a random pick (an Ernie Ball promo freebie medium-ish) and everything felt harder to do and sounded more plinky.