plastic, bone,brass or wood bridge pins

wrinkleygit · December 2013

this seems to be a contentious issue, before I swap out my plastic ones for bone, anyone have any thoughts on whether there is a difference between different materials or is it all just snake oil, happy new year, mike .

koneguitarist · December 2013

don`t think I have ever heard a difference between any. the bridge and nut however, bone or Tusq for me.

ICBM · December 2013

I think there is a difference with metal ones, whether due to the "metallic-ness"

of them or more likely the extra mass, but the other types I don't think so. I did swap out my plastic ones for bone, but that's because the bone ones are pretty and have a great big abalone dot in the top

.

I tested it fairly properly, by swapping three of them first (keeping the same strings) and couldn't hear any difference.

I can't think of any reason there should be a difference aside from the mass, since they're tightly jammed in the bridge, don't vibrate, and aren't in contact with the vibrating part of the string.

Lukeage · December 2013

I've also experimented a little. To be honest the only real difference I think I could pick out was the quality of the parts themselves - tone wise really no major effect was noticed by switching from plastic to bone.

Plastic parts on acoustics (pins, bridge saddles, and nuts) - I've seen some crackers in my time (literally) where the offending guitarist has put the bridge saddle back in the wrong way round and it's cracked or shattered under the heavier tension of the strings on the thinner/weaker part of the saddle!

So to answer your original question, I say: no.

But if you want solid parts... change them for bone, brass, wood/other material that isn't plastic :P

Wolfetone · December 2013

Brass bridge pins change the mass of the bridge and have made an outstanding difference to the tone and sustain of my solid mahogany Tanglewood TW47.

I asked one of the luthiers over at Avalon if he could strip the finish of my guitar to allow it to breath and he said that changing the pins would be a better bet.

It's the best £20 I have spent in a long while.

Buy a set of brass pins. If you can't hear a difference you're either deaf or dead.

ICBM · December 2013

What's interesting is that it's often held that a *lighter* bridge will allow the top to resonate more and so improve the tone.

I don't think it's as simple as that… not only do brass bridge pins often seem to improve the sound, my Gibson Dove - which is the best-sounding acoustic guitar I've ever owned or played - has one of the largest, thickest rosewood bridges known to man, and which must be heavier than a standard one.

I actually think it's more a case of 'tuning' the resonance - so it's possible that brass pins can improve the sound, but also make it worse. I've definitely heard one guitar that I didn't like at all with brass pins, and which sounded much better with plastic ones (in my opinion).

The same is true of headstock mass and machineheads - most people say lighter is better, some say heavier is better… I would say the right answer is that *right* is better

. But that you might need to experiment to find out what 'right' is. Years ago I had an old J45 which came to me with Schaller M6s on it - I didn't like the look of them so I changed them for lighter modern Schallers, which improved it. Then I sold it and the buyer had the even lighter original-style Klusons fitted back… which killed the tone.

Wolfetone · December 2013

ICBM said:

What's interesting is that it's often held that a *lighter* bridge will allow the top to resonate more and so improve the tone.

I don't think it's as simple as that… not only do brass bridge pins often seem to improve the sound, my Gibson Dove - which is the best-sounding acoustic guitar I've ever owned or played - has one of the largest, thickest rosewood bridges known to man, and which must be heavier than a standard one.

I actually think it's more a case of 'tuning' the resonance - so it's possible that brass pins can improve the sound, but also make it worse. I've definitely heard one guitar that I didn't like at all with brass pins, and which sounded much better with plastic ones (in my opinion).

The same is true of headstock mass and machineheads - most people say lighter is better, some say heavier is better… I would say the right answer is that *right* is better . But that you might need to experiment to find out what 'right' is. Years ago I had an old J45 which came to me with Schaller M6s on it - I didn't like the look of them so I changed them for lighter modern Schallers, which improved it. Then I sold it and the buyer had the even lighter original-style Klusons fitted back… which killed the tone.

I would wholeheartedly agree with this. In my case, the pins brought it closer to my ideal tone. I have often wondered if the difference in head stock shape and size is a larger governing factor in the tone of any guitar acoustic or electric guitars then we think?.

ICBM · December 2013

Wolfetone said:
I have often wondered if the difference in head stock shape and size is a larger governing factor in the tone of any guitar acoustic or electric guitars then we think?.

This is one of my pet obsessions too

.

I first realised it with late-60s CBS-head Strats and Les Paul Customs - both of which have bigger headstocks than their more fashionable counterparts. It was a bit of a 'light bulb moment' when I realised what the common factor in the sound of both of them - which I prefer to a small-head Strat or a Les Paul Standard - was. (Or at least with the LP Custom, as well as the ebony fingerboard.)

Would you be surprised that the Dove also has a Custom-size headstock?

elkay · December 2013

I have experimented quite extensively with bridge pins, including bone (from various sources, fossilised and otherwise), tusq, brass, ebony, etc., and would say that whether or not they make a difference is generally down to the guitar itself. With some guitars, the difference can be quite significant, whereas with others there is no noticeable difference at all. On the whole, brass tends to make the biggest difference. However, which is 'best' can be quite subjective, and differs from one guitar to another (as well as one player to the next). For instance, I like the sound of tusq best on my Gibson rosewood J45, whereas tusq thins the tone on my Stonebridge G23, and for this I prefer the warmer, rounder tone that ebony gives. My Martin J40 is the biggest surprise, as the tone I like best surprisingly comes from its original plastic pins! I guess Martin must have known what they were doing when they built that guitar 30 years ago. On my cheap Fender acoustic, none of the different materials made the slightest bit of difference accept for brass, which livened up the tone quite substantially. A note of caution with brass though. Although it can bring out the tone of otherwise subdued guitars, on already responsive guitars they can make the tone overly metallic and clangy. Also, bone, which seems to be most favoured, tends to deaden the tone on both my J45 and J40. So, in response to the OP's question, there's no easy answer. Changing from plastic to bone may or may not make a difference to the tone, and, if there is a difference, it might in fact turn out to be worse. I'm afraid the only way to improve tone with bridge pins is by experimenting with all the different types, which is not exactly a cheap proposition. Therefore, my advise for most people would be that, unless you're really dissatisfied with the tone of your guitar, don't bother changing the pins.

bertie · December 2013

Im going with the 'it affect some, not others' camp. Personally I think a LOT has to do with the build of the guitar in the first place.......how "light" a construction it is, as ICBM said -the thickness/density of the bridge and plate, and how well its attached to the top, how thin or thick the top is, how it resonates, what effect the bracing has....................and its not even as simple or definite as one of the other, its a mix of all or any of these things, there aint no simple formula

ThePrettyDamned · January 2014

I always refer back to those clip on weights that went on the headstock. I'm sure Joe satriani used to use one...

Anyway, I experimented with sellotape and fishing weights. Not ideal, but I basically found a weight (of 1.25oz) made my Ltd sustain better in standard tuning for most stuff (generally in e minor). When I repeated the experiment a few weeks later, having restrung to drop c, the weight seemed to have no effect on sustain this time, but it did sound better without the weight.

I know it's a very poor test compared to a properly clipped on weight, an results are inconclusive and anecdotal, but it did convince me that the mass at that end can have an effect. Whether that will convince anyone else is another matter, but it's worth trying. 1.25 oz is actually quite a bit - a bit more than adding another tuner.

wrinkleygit · January 2014

I seem to remember a thread on bass chat about adding mass to to the headstock to eliminate dead spots on the neck, there was a device that you could buy to clamp to your headstock possibly made by dunlop but I'm not sure, I did have a musicman maple neck bass with a horrendous dead note on Eflat on the G string, experimented with a small metal g cramp on the headstock, did work but wasn't very pretty so I sold the bass in frustration, it looks like adding mass will have some sort of effect but whether it becomes an improvement is debatable, happy new year, mike b.

octatonic · January 2014

ICBM said:

What's interesting is that it's often held that a *lighter* bridge will allow the top to resonate more and so improve the tone.

I don't think it's as simple as that… not only do brass bridge pins often seem to improve the sound, my Gibson Dove - which is the best-sounding acoustic guitar I've ever owned or played - has one of the largest, thickest rosewood bridges known to man, and which must be heavier than a standard one.

I actually think it's more a case of 'tuning' the resonance - so it's possible that brass pins can improve the sound, but also make it worse. I've definitely heard one guitar that I didn't like at all with brass pins, and which sounded much better with plastic ones (in my opinion).

You're right- it isn't as simple as that.What we are taught/told by our lecturers (and indeed every book I've read on the topic) is there is a sweet spot.

You don't want anything so light that the strings aren't held securely but also you don't want it too heavy that it stops the top from moving freely.

When you think about it, a bridge is another form of bracing- one of the jobs of bracing is to control the soundboard resonances (as well as providing structural strength, and to distribute energy from the strings to the edge of the soundboard)- it isn't a case of *more resonance* equals better.

Often it means that the guitar is unbalanced in terms of tone because one of the resonant frequencies is over accentuated.

It is perfectly possible to have a heavier, thicker bridge if you accommodate it by thinning the underside bracing a bit.

How well that particular soundboard responds is down to many factors.

You can use a handheld exciter and glitter to observer some chladni patterns and measure the resonance of a particular soundboard and try to tune the soundboard's resonance by adding bracing.

Most people don't do this though- as it is time consuming and it doesn't necessarily make for a more toneful guitar, because tone is entirely subjective.

When it comes to bridge pins- there is no hard/fast rule as to what is going to be better or worse in a given situation.

It is mostly a cosmetic issue, rather than a tone issue- the nut and saddle make more of a difference, but actually a well cut nut of any material will be better than a badly cut nut made of any material.

Wooden pins tend to wear quicker, because the string wears into the pin.

Plastic are fine- they last a long time but they don't look as nice as bone imho.

Antique_Guitars · January 2014

They need to be made out of solid Gold and encrusted with diamonds to get what they call JESUS TONE!

octatonic · January 2014

Antique_Guitars said:

They need to be made out of solid Gold and encrusted with diamonds to get what they call JESUS TONE!

Surely that would be Liberace tone.

Antique_Guitars · January 2014

octatonic said:

Antique_Guitars said:

They need to be made out of solid Gold and encrusted with diamonds to get what they call JESUS TONE!

Surely that would be Liberace tone.

I though Liberace was after Jesus on the bill? have I got there sound check times wrong?

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