Starter synths?

Neil · December 2015

It's just a whim I have about having a go at a synth.

I can't play keyboards at all but guess I could pick out a few chords so what sort of things should I be looking at bearing in mind I am no good at computers and would just want a stand alone model.

This may sound ridiculous but I really have no idea, do they have to be amped up?

dogload · December 2015

It all depends what you're looking for.

There are little ones like the Microkorg going cheap, but they have the small (but very playable keyboards) which can be had quite cheaply.

These are also very easy to integrate with a computer/ software, but are a nightmare to program without using a software editor.

There are ones such as the re-booted MS20 and ARP - they are monophonic, but are proper synths.

Then there are older Rolands/ Yamahas/ Korgs that have polyphony but varying levels of accessibility/ programability. Do you want a workstation?

The 'real' synths will require an amp, although you may want something like a Yamaha Portasound that has built in speakers and hundreds of non-programmable preset sounds

Teetonetal · December 2015

one thing to consider, is that lots of synths are monophonic and no real great keyboard virtuosity is required... the fun is in twiddling the knobs as you play... other synths are genuine keyboards with huge sound shaping ability.. it depends what you are after.

As a standalone instrument, I have always found synths to be a little underwhelming, used with loopers, computers and other instruments though, they can be sonic magic...

Neil · December 2015

dogload said:

It all depends what you're looking for.

There are little ones like the Microkorg going cheap, but they have the small (but very playable keyboards) which can be had quite cheaply.
These are also very easy to integrate with a computer/ software, but are a nightmare to program without using a software editor.

There are ones such as the re-booted MS20 and ARP - they are monophonic, but are proper synths.

Then there are older Rolands/ Yamahas/ Korgs that have polyphony but varying levels of accessibility/ programability. Do you want a workstation?

The 'real' synths will require an amp, although you may want something like a Yamaha Portasound that has built in speakers and hundreds of non-programmable preset sounds

Thanks.

My son actually has a Yam Portasound in the dark reaches of his bedroom , may try and retrieve it.

Neil · December 2015

Teetonetal said:

one thing to consider, is that lots of synths are monophonic and no real great keyboard virtuosity is required... the fun is in twiddling the knobs as you play... other synths are genuine keyboards with huge sound shaping ability.. it depends what you are after.

As a standalone instrument, I have always found synths to be a little underwhelming, used with loopers, computers and other instruments though, they can be sonic magic...

I guess I thought I'd be Gary Newman or something but it looks like it could just be another GAS avenue TBH.

hugbot · December 2015

For a starter synth I'd probably say get a midi keyboard and start messing around with Reason or similar. The trick with synths is being able to visualise what's going on. The expensive ones have lots of nice knobs on the front panel for easy tweaking while the cheaper ones often skimp on the control surfaces and instead hide their functions behind menus. A computer solution lets you see right away what you're doing.

hugbot · December 2015

Also the other thing I'd recommend when getting into synths is to do a little reading up on the history of the genres. The reason being the sound of electronic music is inextricably tied with what was available at the time. So something like say, a 303 will always sound very "90s" because that was when it dominated. Early Hip hop has the 808s and the amen break sample, 80s synth pop is tied to the Dx7. 70s music is all moog and so on. It helps if you're not flying blind in that regard, just like it helps in guitar music to know what a marshall sounds like ect.

Fuzzdog · December 2015

If you think GAS is bad, just wait until you start getting into synths!

blobb · December 2015

My first real synth was a novation KS rack plus a cheap midi keyboard. You could probably find a KS4/5 with keys but the way the rack is laid out really works for learning the basics of subtractive synthesis. 16 note poly (notes at same time i.e. chords) and 4 part mutlitimbral (4 synth engines at the same time) everything done using twiddly knobs and has a distinctive sound.

3 OSCS into a mixer > filter > 2 Lfo's > mod envelope > amp envelope > effects engine.

Plus and arpeggiator, vocoder and audio in (to the filters).

Once you have your head around how subtractive synthesis works it's grown up enough not to be junked.

Headphone out or audio out (stereo or mono) into an interface / amp of your choice.

Onboard power (kettle lead) so no wall wart.

An absolute neglected gem of a synth (i.e. cheap to buy now), based on the Kstation and before that the bass station which was Chris Hugget design (WASP / OSCar), so bags of credibility. The only thing missing is a sequencer but you can sort that later.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/novation/ks45r.php

Honestly, it's just so well laid out. Accessibility can make or break a synth. I have a Korg Prophecy which is immense but the menu diving means it sits doing nothing. The KS, just switch it on, plug in some earphones and in seconds you are swirling textures about like a pro.

EdGrip · December 2015

What hugbot said ^

Neil · December 2015

Thanks for the detailed responses Gents.

Obviously far more to this than I realised.

Definitely some reading to be done.

Moss · December 2015

Go to a large music shop (Andertons, Dawsons, the Gear4Music showroom or the bigger PMTs are particularly good for this) and try out loads - that's the easiest way to know what you actually want

Sassafras · December 2015

Most important thing on a synth for me is the ADSR section. If you can't shape the note in real time then I'm not interested.

jonnygreentrees · December 2015

Microkorgs are fun but a nightmare to edit so you won't really learn anything about synthesis but is a good option if you just want some presets

minimoog · December 2015

hugbot said:

For a starter synth I'd probably say get a midi keyboard and start messing around with Reason or similar. The trick with synths is being able to visualise what's going on. The expensive ones have lots of nice knobs on the front panel for easy tweaking while the cheaper ones often skimp on the control surfaces and instead hide their functions behind menus. A computer solution lets you see right away what you're doing.

Hmm. Yer man said he's no good with computers. I always found getting softsynths to work properly a complete ballache and it put me off recording electronic music for years. Latency issues in particular are a pain unless you spring for a good audio interface and have a decent computer spec.

To the OP it very much depends on your budget. I've got a bunch of vintage analogue synths. My user name is a giveaway (I wanted to be Numan too haha). Nowadays though they're pretty expensive, stupidly so for the old classics, therefore I recommend a virtual analogue. It'll give you a wide variety of sounds, be pretty reliable, and have some modern touches like midi so you can use it as a softsynth controller if you want.

Last year I bought one of these used for £200, and while it'll never beat an old Moog, Prophet or Oberheim for pure analogue tone, it's way more versatile and sounds great once you layer up the patches and load the inbuilt effects on. You can program a killer Polymoog patch for those Numan Cars moments too

http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/feb04/images/qacontentsnovation.l.jpg

Other suggestions on the used market might be Yamaha AN1x, A Nord Lead of some sort, Roland JP8000, Korg MS2000, other Novations, etc. All are VA polysynths so you can pick those chords out, but they will do monophonic stuff too, and many have on-board effects (Nord excepted f'rinstance) so sound good straight out of the box. All you need is headphones or an amp/hifi to get going.

If you're content with one-finger prodding and knob twiddling you have further options including new real analogue stuff from Korg (some mentioned above), the Arturia monosynths (very good I'm told) and a few others. You'll pretty much definitely need an external reverb, delay or multifx though else they'll sound pretty flat.

If money's no object get a new Prophet 6

Otherwise the classifieds at Sound On Sound are a good place to hunt along with the usual ebay and Gumtree suspects.

blobb · December 2015

^^^ that's the one. Novation KS ^^

There's a KS rack going on Synthesizer Freaks fb page,

dogload · December 2015

jonnygreentrees said:

Microkorgs are fun but a nightmare to edit so you won't really learn anything about synthesis but is a good option if you just want some presets

The editing software makes things much easier and is very comprehensive, however it does require an existing knowledge of synth programming that is easier to get around on a hardware device.

rossyamaha · December 2015

We have a range called reface. They sound great and aren't super expensive but give you a bunch of options a tweakage while still being a piece of piss to use. I know pretty much nothing about synths but I know these punch well above their weight.

minimoog · December 2015

Yeah but mini keys man :x

EdGrip · December 2015

I used to have an Alesis Ion, which is another great virtual analogue synth with a good display and all the knobs you need to teach yourself, hands-on, how synths work. The user manual is excellent, the presets are fun, and the sound quality is good and big. It also looks flat out cool as fuck.

The downsides are that there are no effects, and it wasn't a good earner for Alesis so it was dropped ages ago in favour of the Micron (which has fewer keys and far fewer knobs, and is consequently much harder to fathom, though it uses the same great sound engine.) This means that if you want one, it's second-hand only.

Again, it's a good plan (and good fun if you're as nerdy as me) to research what synths are behind your favourite tracks / genre / era to give a better idea of what you're looking for and why.

SquireJapan · December 2015

But seriously, I think the new Novation Bass Station is really nice. Simple, but lots of good sounds in there.

Luminous · December 2015

blobb said:

My first real synth was a novation KS rack plus a cheap midi keyboard. You could probably find a KS4/5 with keys but the way the rack is laid out really works for learning the basics of subtractive synthesis. 16 note poly (notes at same time i.e. chords) and 4 part mutlitimbral (4 synth engines at the same time) everything done using twiddly knobs and has a distinctive sound.

3 OSCS into a mixer > filter > 2 Lfo's > mod envelope > amp envelope > effects engine.

Plus and arpeggiator, vocoder and audio in (to the filters).

Once you have your head around how subtractive synthesis works it's grown up enough not to be junked.

Headphone out or audio out (stereo or mono) into an interface / amp of your choice.

Onboard power (kettle lead) so no wall wart.

An absolute neglected gem of a synth (i.e. cheap to buy now), based on the Kstation and before that the bass station which was Chris Hugget design (WASP / OSCar), so bags of credibility. The only thing missing is a sequencer but you can sort that later.

http://www.vintagesynth.com/novation/ks45r.php

Honestly, it's just so well laid out. Accessibility can make or break a synth. I have a Korg Prophecy which is immense but the menu diving means it sits doing nothing. The KS, just switch it on, plug in some earphones and in seconds you are swirling textures about like a pro.

This ^^^^^^^^^

ROOG · December 2015

Go for used, (just make sure all the buttons work) visit local music shop, 'last years' synths don't hold their value unless they are iconic Moogs etc.

I bought my 'Arranger' (does synth too) this way and saved well over 50% on new.

Stick with known names, Yamaha, Roland, Korg etc.

If you want to understand what is going on as apposed to being happy with factory presets I would steer clear of the DX7 and related instruments. I could never get my head around anticipating what a parameter would do! Perhaps I'm just an 'analogue' thinker.

racefaceec90 · December 2015

i am in a similar position to you op,as i also want to get myself a synth to play about on.

i have 2 in ind that i am thinking about

both are great from what i have seen on youtube vids/reviews). am leaning towards the novation atm (as i love the sounds it was making on yt demos).

blobb · December 2015

The Novation KS comes with a different pedigree to the newer mini nova types. Honestly, what you want with a 'starter' synth is accessibility i.e knobs on the front panel, and a clearly laid out signal path so you can visualise what is going on. You will hate mini keys, get a ks4 or a midi keyboard for a rack synth. Novation keybeds are great for what they are. A roland JP8000 (jp8080 for the rack version) is also worth looking into. The Korg MS2000 should also be on your radar. I'd take a Novation Nova over a mini nova anyday.

Neil · December 2015

blobb said:

The Novation KS comes with a different pedigree to the newer mini nova types. Honestly, what you want with a 'starter' synth is accessibility i.e knobs on the front panel, and a clearly laid out signal path so you can visualise what is going on. You will hate mini keys, get a ks4 or a midi keyboard for a rack synth. Novation keybeds are great for what they are. A roland JP8000 (jp8080 for the rack version) is also worth looking into. The Korg MS2000 should also be on your radar. I'd take a Novation Nova over a mini nova anyday.

I agree with your premise that I would definitely need a clearly laid out signal path to visualise what's going on.

Also I don't think mini keys would suit my sausage fingers.

dogload · December 2015

The MS2000 would be one of my top recommendations were it not for the fact that it is mostly monophonic. It has limited polyphony (four notes?) although it can be used as a polyphonic controller keyboard.

The layout does provide quite easy access for programming and editing though.

minimoog · December 2015

This would be ideal. Collection only though

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/novation-ks4-/172019908973?hash=item280d2f816d:g:xmMAAOSw34FVIU3K

Around £300 would get you one of these. Not as deep as the Novation but easier to get your head round.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roland-JP8000-Analog-Modelling-Synthesiser-William-Orbit-/221966979423?hash=item33ae43515f:g:GiMAAOSwcOFWbF3X

There was a KS4 here for £175 a few days ago - http://www.soundonsound.com/readersads/AdBrowse.php?Cat=23

Neil - how much are you looking to spend? Hard to give concrete suggestions without a budget.

DulcetJones · December 2015

I was where you are now a couple of years ago. I picked up a MIDI based Oxygen25 by M Audio, downloaded the free "Ignite" program, connected the USB cable to my computer and away I go. These are so easy to use it's crazy but are limited by the things outlined in a lot of the previous posts in this thread. I get what they are saying and did spend some time dabbling in the nuts and bolts but it's not my thing, I just want to make creepy weird music and this thing works for me. I do have a strong background in music theory and that helps but isn't a requirement.

Neil · December 2015

minimoog said:

This would be ideal. Collection only though

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/novation-ks4-/172019908973?hash=item280d2f816d:g:xmMAAOSw34FVIU3K

Around £300 would get you one of these. Not as deep as the Novation but easier to get your head round.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Roland-JP8000-Analog-Modelling-Synthesiser-William-Orbit-/221966979423?hash=item33ae43515f:g:GiMAAOSwcOFWbF3X

There was a KS4 here for £175 a few days ago - http://www.soundonsound.com/readersads/AdBrowse.php?Cat=23

Neil - how much are you looking to spend? Hard to give concrete suggestions without a budget.

It really is just a whim TBH and I won't have a lot to spend until after Christmas but really just wanted to know what sort of stuff (+ease of use) was available to a complete beginner.

Moss · December 2015

Neil said:

blobb said:

The Novation KS comes with a different pedigree to the newer mini nova types. Honestly, what you want with a 'starter' synth is accessibility i.e knobs on the front panel, and a clearly laid out signal path so you can visualise what is going on. You will hate mini keys, get a ks4 or a midi keyboard for a rack synth. Novation keybeds are great for what they are. A roland JP8000 (jp8080 for the rack version) is also worth looking into. The Korg MS2000 should also be on your radar. I'd take a Novation Nova over a mini nova anyday.

I agree with your premise that I would definitely need a clearly laid out signal path to visualise what's going on.

Also I don't think mini keys would suit my sausage fingers.

You need the new MDPhillips Keyboard Range

http://cdn.instructables.com/FTM/3F0Y/HEBNAA2Y/FTM3F0YHEBNAA2Y.LARGE.jpg

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