FS/FT: Redplate CDS2 (Reduced!)

hywelg · May 2014

I have to say I am impressed with the WGS Veteran 30 that came with my Blackverb now that it is in a bigger 2x12 with an Eminence Tonespotter (supposed to be like a G12-65?)

Blueingreen · May 2014

Barney said:

Just done a short clip today of my Redplate...its just the amp with the v30 and some delay and reverb...iff anybody wants to know what they sound like

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p1zFWKT-6yk

That sounds really great although obv it's only one sound so not saying much about versatility. After the first couple of notes I thought you were going to play a gainier version of Mingus/Beck's Goodbye Pork PIe Hat and was slightly disappointed you didn't!

I'm seriously interested in one of these as a replacement for my Chubster as it seems to meet the twin requirements of being lighter and having a more refined gain channel. But they are very pricey and I have slight worry about them being loud enough in a band with keys, possibly horns and an anti-social drummer. (And they tend to be the kinds of drummers I know). Then there's the hassle of unloading the Rivera.

llew · May 2014

How versatile are these? And how good is the clean sound?

Barney · May 2014

The clean sound is lovely ...iv been using mine on the tweed setting...probably not as versatile as say my mk4 cos it has 3 independent channels ..rev and switchable fx loop....but the sound is a lot different.....I havnt got round to using mine live yet because iv always been into boogies and know them better ...but I plan on changing that soon .....not to replace the boogie but as a alternative ....
The redplate has a lot of options and I would think would do anything apart from say very heavy metal..but thats not what kind of amp it is....40 watts loud enuff for a loud drummer? ..iv used it a rehearsals and it definitely is....with a lot more to spare...and thats just the combo without a extension cab ... one thing that is needed though is a good reverb pedal cos theres none on ....

Wazmeister · May 2014

These things are easily loud enough for MOST gigs. Very loud.

The cleans are what Redplates do superbly imho, and ive owned 4 of em. The 'tweed' channels are lovely too, the amp is super light, and some of my fave live sounds ever came out of one of the CDS2s...

BUT, contrary to what the TGP luvvies would have you believe, reliability can be an issue with the Redplates. I know lots of users who have had to return them or move them on...

Im not implying that this is the case here. I was looking at this myself at one stage, and id image that the OP has moved this on now....

Blueingreen · May 2014

Yeah I assume this is long gone. Interesting discussion though.

You may have killed my interest in these. They seem the idea solution for me in many ways - I want good quality Fender cleans in a back-friendly package and loud enough to gig in a biggish band with loud drummer. A really good gain channel would be a massive bonus. These seem to have a really good power-weight ratio and I quite like the aesthetics, neither brutally modern nor twee-retro.

But I live nowhere near a dealer and ending up with one with reliability issues would be a nightmare. Besides I'd resent paying that kind of money for an amp that wasn't reliable.

Back to the drawing board.

hywelg · May 2014

I think you are worrying unduly. These are handwired amps with a schematic supplied inside the cab. Any decent amp tech will not have a problem diagnosing a fault and they are much easier to work on than modern pcb amps. Truth be told, you'd face the same problem with a Matchless, Carr, Two Rock, Friedman or a vintage Fender.

Cacofonix · May 2014

hywelg said:

I think you are worrying unduly. These are handwired amps with a schematic supplied inside the cab. Any decent amp tech will not have a problem diagnosing a fault and they are much easier to work on than modern pcb amps. Truth be told, you'd face the same problem with a Matchless, Carr, Two Rock, Friedman or a vintage Fender.

Depends if it's a component fault or a design fault, surely? I don't know if it's either, but as the amp is prolly long gone, not really a question that need worry anyone overmuch.

I was GASing for this, but no reverb, so even if the OP had been up for a trade, not for me,

Lodious · May 2014

Whilst I'm no fan of Redplates, I think this is very true....

hywelg said:

I think you are worrying unduly. These are handwired amps with a schematic supplied inside the cab. Any decent amp tech will not have a problem diagnosing a fault and they are much easier to work on than modern pcb amps. Truth be told, you'd face the same problem with a Matchless, Carr, Two Rock, Friedman or a vintage Fender.

Wazmeister · May 2014

hywelg said:

I think you are worrying unduly. These are handwired amps with a schematic supplied inside the cab. Any decent amp tech will not have a problem diagnosing a fault and they are much easier to work on than modern pcb amps. Truth be told, you'd face the same problem with a Matchless, Carr, Two Rock, Friedman or a vintage Fender.

Really ? I mean really ?

You pay £2500 for an amp, only to have to have a local technician sort it out ? No chance...

This is the only forum where you can even mention anything negative about Redplates. Don't get me wrong, they can sound glorious BUT... and this is a massive 'but', you have to get a good one.

And with complete respect, there is no comparison in customer service between Redplate and Carr. Steve Carr's service is legendary, and I have used it.

As ever, just my limited owners experience with 4 Redplates and 4 Carrs... and YMMV...

Blueingreen · May 2014

hywelg said:

I think you are worrying unduly. These are handwired amps with a schematic supplied inside the cab. Any decent amp tech will not have a problem diagnosing a fault and they are much easier to work on than modern pcb amps. Truth be told, you'd face the same problem with a Matchless, Carr, Two Rock, Friedman or a vintage Fender.

Sorry but I don't get this. I'd be reluctant to buy those brands too if I'd been persuaded that they had reliability issues.

You misunderstand my reasons for thinking that the dealer being local matters. It has nothing to do with needing specialist technical knowledge.

If I buy an amp from a reputable local dealer and it has problems I can stick the amp in the car, take it back, and say there's a problem, please fix it. If the dealer is hundreds of miles away it becomes an entirely different level of hassle.

But as Wazmeister says, who wants to pay £2.5K for an amp on the basis that although it may have reliability issues it may be relatively easy to repair? I don't seem to live near any reputable techs, and in any case I imagine using a local tech would have implications for the validity of guarantees.

Cacofonix · May 2014

I think the poster was assuming that if one hand wired amp is known to be unreliable the others mentioned must also be. I've never heard of reliability issues with any of them, to be honest. Or indeed vintage fender. Age related issues might creep in, but that shouldn't be an issue with a brand new amp.

Edited due to lack of personal knowledge.

Blueingreen · May 2014

Wazmeister obviously has experience of these and seems a sensible chap. If his conclusion is that there are reliability issues then I'm going to give that some credence, bearing in mind all the caveats about one person's experience possibly being unrepresentative etc. Buying an expensive amp long distance is a risky enough business. Buying an expensive amp long distance when you've had your card marked about reliability issues seems foolhardy,

Lodious · May 2014

What was your experience w/Redplate reliability Warren? Not trolling, I'm interested as to what was unreliable with the amp.

hywelg · May 2014

Wazmeister said:

and YMMV...

Yes it does.

Warren had problems with one or more of his Redplates at a time when Redplate were experiencing unprecedented increase in demand. I dont hear much talk of general unreliability, I only heard of Warrens problems. There are a few other owners on here that have not had the same experience, or if they have they haven't voiced it. TGP is noticeably quiet about reliability problems. I would expect to hear something even if it was a whisper for fear of a flame war.

Warren can't conclude a generalised problem exists from his own personal experience. Doug at Coda is a pretty canny businessman I'm sure, and if he was getting a lot of returns he would not be continueing to stock Redplate amps in the quantity that he does, and has done for a number of years now.

So please dont anyone run away with the idea that one persons problems equate to a problem with the brand. My experience differs, and when I have a question for Henry, I get pretty prompt replies.

Blueingreen said:

But as Wazmeister says, who wants to pay £2.5K for an amp on the basis that although it may have reliability issues it may be relatively easy to repair?

I'm not talking about a new amp. I don't believe, at least from reading his posts about them, that Warren had a problem getting problems sorted under warranty. I'm talking about long term, out of warranty, repairs. Issues like Warren had crop up pretty quickly after delivery AFAIK, probably as a result of the rough handling during shipping. All valve amps will have problems at one time or another relating to valves, reverb tanks, eventually caps and Redplate amps are very well built, you only have to look at the photos of their internals, way better than some of Two Rocks handwired offerings.

Cacofonix · May 2014

All good.

Blueingreen · May 2014

"I'm not talking about a new amp."

Well, either you were or your post was a bizarre non-sequitur given that the thrust of your argument was that I was "worrying unduly" in being put off buying a new amp. My obvious concern was that if I bought one it might have problems from the get-go, like Warren's.

"I don't believe, at least from reading his posts about them, that Warren had a problem getting problems sorted under warranty."

Even if true that doesn't mean that he didn't have the kind of experience that any sensible person will take reasonable care to avoid. Getting teething problems with amps fixed under warrantee (especially from a distance seller) is always liable to be a stressful, time-eating pain in the arse, even if the retailer behaves impeccably. And of course they don't always (no reflection on Coda who I've never dealt with).

"Warren can't conclude a generalised problem exists from his own personal experience."

As he very explicitly admits himself:

"As ever, just my limited owners experience with 4 Redplates and 4 Carrs... and YMMV..."

I'm not concluding that a "generalised" problem exists. I am concluding that someone bought 4 amps in a price bracket where I'd feel reliability ought not to be an issue and didn't have a happy experience. And that taking that into account naturally changes my perception of the risk of making a purchase.

Wazmeister · May 2014

Ok, I've tried to be gentle here.. but time to lift the lid on this situation.

Hywelg, I've no wish to war with you my friend but your strange wording on here is typical of Redplate owners who will not allow anything bad to be said about them.

I dont hear much talk of general unreliability, I only heard of Warrens problems.

Let's have a look at this statement a little bit deeper. Here are some of my Redplates;

- Custom order (brand new)

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/Redplate CDS2/file-7.jpg

- CDS2 from Coda (this was a great amp) and my SECOND blonde/wheat model.

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/P1010240.jpg

I also owned a Blackverb.

There have been numerous problems with SOME Redplates, and indeed at one stage, many of the Redplates available were RETURNS.

So please dont anyone run away with the idea that one persons problems equate to a problem with the brand. My experience differs, and when I have a question for Henry, I get pretty prompt replies.

Now, I have to tread carefully here as some of the people who can verify all this are friends or 'acquaintances'...

BUT,

I know to 6/7 Uk and European based people (some on this very forum) who have had RP problems, and have subsequently returned them, or moved them on... FACT.

It's a real shame because some of the tones I had from my CDS2 (the black one) were THE best I've encountered. But I had 2 models in at the same time, on different occasions, and they were chalk and cheese. Sounded nothing like each other.

Wazmeister · May 2014

Warren can't conclude a generalised problem exists from his own personal experience. Doug at Coda is a pretty canny businessman I'm sure, and if he was getting a lot of returns he would not be continueing to stock Redplate amps in the quantity that he does, and has done for a number of years now.

Now, THAT is a true generalisation.

Ultimately, I moved my CDS2 on when the 'new' models started to appear. Indeed, it is my understanding that Henry has 'streamlined' his range, to counter some of the problems in the amps built 'in unprecedented times of demand"

I dont hear much talk of general unreliability, I only heard of Warrens problems.

The reason is... every time someone raises genuine concerns, they are threatened and talked down like in this thread.

You pays your money boys...

Wazmeister · May 2014

Blueingreen said:

I'm not concluding that a "generalised" problem exists. I am concluding that someone bought 4 amps in a price bracket where I'd feel reliability ought not to be an issue and didn't have a happy experience. And that taking that into account naturally changes my perception of the risk of making a purchase.

Bang on...

But Hywelg may have a point. It is just my narrow minded reactionary view.

It is true that Henry did make me TWO, count em (TWO) custom CDS2s and both were v poor.

And just to re-emphasise an earlier point, to compare Henry's legendary Customer Service (which is v good when ordering), with that of Steve Carr's is frankly laughable.

Carry on Hywelg. They will believe you, not me I'm sure...

Lodious · May 2014

Warren, I'm not a fan of Redplates. I've posted my less than positive findings on here previously, so I'm def. not a fanboi. However, it does seem rough that you are slagging their reliability, where as far as I can tell, you have not said specifically what problems you have had with the amps you have owned, and what Redplate did (or did not do) to sort them out.

You said that the CDS2's were poor...in what way? What was bad about the customer service?

I'm not trying to start an argument in any way, but if you are going to question a companies reliability in a public forum, you should be specific about the issues you have had. There are people in internet land who have never been near a Redplate, who will be repeating 'oh yeah, Redplate...I hear they are unreliable' on the back of what you posted. Aside from showing how many you bought, you haven't detailed anything specific as to what the problems actually were (had this been covered on another thread?)

hywelg · May 2014

Some people are taking what I said completely the wrong way. My mention of TR, Matchless, Dr Z, Friedman et al was in relation to the location and distance to dealers and this will always be the case for any niche brand. I did not intend to not did I imply that they are all unreliable. Someone with an out of warranty fault with the likes of those 'boutique' amps will indeed face the same problems as someone with a Redplate with an out of warranty fault, ie they will have to know of or find a competent tech, who should then have little or no problem fixing it.

Warren, I have been very very careful not to question the veracity of your statements. I do not doubt for one minute that you had problems, but all your amps were bought within a very short period of time before you moved on to Carr's, and I made the point that I thought Henry might have overreached himself and you might have been a recipient of some less than perfect production, a possible reason for problems you had. I also think he might have been just a little too accommodating of purchasers requests for this and that mod. He is very helpful by nature, but when there is pressure to get stuff out the door something has to give and maybe some things got rushed.

Even though I did not buy my Redplate from Doug at Coda, I worry that some of the comments made here in this thread might be harmful to his reputation as the sole Redplate dealer, which I for one would be unhappy about, he is one of the most accommodating dealers I have ever come across.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that this is a case of black and white. You are right in that your experience was your experience, and cannot be denied. Nor will I attempt to deny it. There was one other statement on this thread which I though was a conclusion too far, not made by you, Warren. It has been ammended by the poster at his suggestion, and my quoting of it has been removed as that poster accepted that it was too easy to take it out of context.

Wazmeister said:

The reason is... every time someone raises genuine concerns, they are threatened and talked down like in this thread.

That I haven't done, I followed your posts on TGP, indeed I have followed all the Redplate threads on there up to the point at which I got my own. I still GAS for other Redplates but I'm not able to afford to indulge to the extent you can. I specifcally have not called you out on your statements as I do know that you were back an forth to Coda swapping amps for a period of time. However others have asked you specifically what the problems were and I am not in a position to clarify as I cannot recall what the reasons were for the returns, though I do know you were clear about them at the time. Other people have taken your comments and created a stereotype of Redplate Amps. I wished to make it clear that MMDV.

Wazmeister · May 2014

Hywelg,

To be fair, that is a decent post and reply.

My response; my Redplate experience was over quite a longer period of time than the posts indicated.

And, it's ok now to imply that it was just a short period of time when Henry was overworked and errors occurred...

For me personally, it is unacceptable when you have TWO chances to send a new model from the USA (apparently...),

and the same problems (and more) emerged...

I'm going to draw a line under this all now, and summarise it with both sides of the story, so to speak;

1.) My problems were with the smaller CDS2 style models. I'm certain that the source was the right hand side of the amp (MV side), but I'm no technician and don't pretend to understand that side.

2.) The Redplates that were good, were excellent ! My Blackverb was outstanding, and uses the bigger transformers , I believe.

The size of the CDS2 was very small and light, and brilliant for that...

I've kept quiet, and still choose not to reveal the whole story, in deference to Doug and Coda Music. I have used Coda many times, and will continue to do so, but any Redplate stories kinda implicate Doug and this is unfair...

The problem wasn't with the seller (Coda) but the manufacturer. Maybe Henry has sorted it all out now... I'd love to get another CDS2 amp, for the great size and sound balance.

Hear me now, the service from Doug and Coda has always been exceptional. I'll be beck there soon, especially looking at some of the CS Strats he has in right now

So, feel free to PM me, and go out and try these great amps for yourself. We have never had it so good for quality boutique amps imho...

And I still think that this custom order is one of the finest looking amps I've seen...

http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q493/Warren3333/Redplate CDS2/file-3.jpg

Lodious · May 2014

Warren. .still no information whatsoever on what the reliability problems you had? I'm beginning to think you are a stroker.

Wazmeister · May 2014

Lodious, what an annoying little fly your are... Can't you read ?

But you are right, I'm just making this up and spending time writing threads for the sake of it.

Man, it gets more like TGP everyday on here...

Lodious · June 2014

Dunno, seams valid to pull you up if your are trashing a manufacturers reliability / aftersales without any details why? Is that not reasonable?

preston61 · June 2014

Before I bought my redplate, which is now owned by Barney, I spoke to warren at length about redplate amps. He was kind enough to let me know via a personal message all the issues he had with the amps he got, and sent me an email from someone else who had experienced the same reliability issues.

His desire was not to publicly slander coda or redplate, but after my asking, gave me a run down of his experience.
If you're serious about buying one of their amps then ask him about it privately, but as he has stated, it's only his experience.

hywelg · June 2014

Alan, I tried to add some balance, based on my experience with my BlackVerb, maybe you could give us your experiences?

BluesyDave · June 2014

I can add my comments about the Redplate CDS2 as I have one of the earlier amps from Coda. Great sounds, very versatile and compact. Oh and mine has been (up to now.......not wishing to jinx it!) 100% reliable. Huge sound from a small package. As Al D'Aloia said at the time, 'The perfect grab and go amp'.

No amp is completely immune to reliability issues as they are only made up of various components, any one of which 'could' fail. A few years ago I had a Bad Cat Classic Cat Combo. Only a volume and tone control with an on/off switch. Sounded great when it worked but had a dickie volume pot and it was quite valve sensitive (as in the make).

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FS/FT: Redplate CDS2 (Reduced!)

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