Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Is This Solo Atonal? - Theory Discussions on The Fretboard
›
UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Is This Solo Atonal?

What's Hot
BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5750
in Theory

Great song and solo, but I always muse at how he worked a solo like this to fit. It's on the edge of everything. Is it Atonal or is it cleverly worked into the Key of the song? It's not a typical "Chord Tone" solo?

Solo at 2:10

I know that EVH is a bit of a Wiz at Atonality(I know, it's not him), but this seems different. Guys on here who are a bit more theory savvy than me might have insight.

What's your take on it?

 

 

And they said that in our time, all that's good will fall from grace, even Saints would turn their face, in our time.
0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter

Comments

  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    It uses mainly E half-whole diminished to get its effect, with an occasional A note replacing the G# in scalar runs which makes E dorian b2 the best fit- 2nd mode of the melodic minor scale. However it's really functioning as a locrian with a natural 6th - same notes, different harmonic role. 
    Current favourite chord - Gm9add13 x[5]5360, see http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/56152/chord-of-the-week-21-11-15-a-gmadd9add13-based-on-dido-s-white-flag
    My facebook music site is "Jon Kingsman Music" at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jon-Kingsman-Music/231035300359856
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 5reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • bigjonbigjon Frets: 680
    edited August 2013
    E half-whole diminished up the open E string - 
    0 1 3 4 6 7 9 10 12
    E dorian b2 / E locrian nat6 up the open E string - 
    0 1 3 5 7 9 10 12

    Also useful for this kind of atonal scronky effect:
    E superlocrian up the open E string -
    0 1 3 4 6 8 10 12
    Current favourite chord - Gm9add13 x[5]5360, see http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/56152/chord-of-the-week-21-11-15-a-gmadd9add13-based-on-dido-s-white-flag
    My facebook music site is "Jon Kingsman Music" at https://www.facebook.com/pages/Jon-Kingsman-Music/231035300359856
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 5reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • vizviz Frets: 10211
    Wise remarks BJ, wise remarks. Have a wisdom.
    Paul_C said: People never read the signature bit.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • FusionistaFusionista Frets: 184


    Brilliant bigjon. How do I give a wisdom ?

    As a kid (and still now) I was fascinated by languages.  It was gobbledygook, but not as we know it, Jim.  As I have got older I have realised many things are like language.  Music for one.  That solo is for me like someone speaking in French at an English party.  There is the general hubbub and then there is this snippet of foreign conversation. I might aver in passing that that riff is about as interesting as a hubbub!  The conversation however is intriguing.


    On another level, in comes bigjon with his explanation.  Technically not another language (actually a register), but to all intents and purposes...  Whatever, he is like a linguist: he has identified the language.  That's the next musical challenge for me..


    "Nobody needs more than 20 strats." Mike Landau
    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5750

    @bigjon

    Nice one bj, you got 2 more frets for that contribution. Great breakdown there, I've not ventured towards Locrian and advanced modes yet. I'm sticking with the usual 6 for now.

    In hindsight, and re-listening to the chords behind the solo, it makes more sense(to my ear)but I didn't have the Theory in my head to explain it.

     

    :D
    And they said that in our time, all that's good will fall from grace, even Saints would turn their face, in our time.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • ddloopingddlooping Frets: 325
    Weird, I can hear some Jaco Pastorius in there.  :-O


    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5750

    @ddlooping

    Wow, not heard those for a while. Jaco was about as technically proficient as it gets. I'll have to put Weather Report into my "In Tray".

    And they said that in our time, all that's good will fall from grace, even Saints would turn their face, in our time.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • tonyrathtonyrath Frets: 51

    Jody Fisher does a great book an encyclopedia of all the modes of the major and the minor scales and goes into great detail of all the modes. Worth checking out and learning some of them 
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 2reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • vizviz Frets: 10211
    Ooh thanks.
    Paul_C said: People never read the signature bit.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5750

    @tonyrath

    Thanks for the tip on the book, Tony. I have understanding of Modes, but I tend to stay with Dorian through to Aeolian, not ventured into Locrian or Melodic Minors yet or the Dominant variations ie: Phrygian Dom etc.

    Like bigjon's breakdown of it explained to me, it's territory I have not studied yet.

    It's "slowly does it" with me

     

    ;)
    And they said that in our time, all that's good will fall from grace, even Saints would turn their face, in our time.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • sheraton52sheraton52 Frets: 2
    It's actually the head to Donna Lee,made famous by Charlie Parker,written I think by Mile Davis?
    1reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33263
    edited November 2013
    sheraton52 said:
    It's actually the head to Donna Lee,made famous by Charlie Parker,written I think by Mile Davis?
    Yup, absolutely Donna Lee.

    James Richmond

    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • sheraton52sheraton52 Frets: 2
    Sure it was Miles Davis in 1947..whoever wrote it it's a bastard to play on the guitar!!,one of the most difficult heads ever..
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • octatonicoctatonic Frets: 33263
    Oh, it isn't THAT difficult.... :-)

    James Richmond

    0reaction image LOL 1reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5750

    @sheraton52

    I just listened to that, the solo seems to be very similar at the start to how Donna Lee starts, have a WOW for being a clever chappy.

     

    :)
    And they said that in our time, all that's good will fall from grace, even Saints would turn their face, in our time.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • carloscarlos Frets: 3252
    PROTIP: you can 'easily' play superlocrian by raising the root of a major scale. Everything else just falls into place. So to play for instance Db/C# Super Locrian, you'd just play the C major scale with the Db/C# instead of the C. 
    My feedback thread - https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/107730/carlos
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • vizviz Frets: 10211
    Yes. All 462 heptatonic scales are "easy". It's the octatonic scales that are more difficult beause the rhythm of the scale is so strange initially.
    Paul_C said: People never read the signature bit.
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • ThePrettyDamnedThePrettyDamned Frets: 7416
    What are the chords underneath the solo?  They sound pretty open to interpretation, I can imagine a nice chromatic or diminished idea working well with it in a heavier setting...

    I know nothing about scales, I tend to try and put notes in that sound good so some of my recorded ideas have some interesting sounding things on them but I wouldn't know how to recreate them!
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • sheraton52sheraton52 Frets: 2
    edited November 2013
    Sorry double post
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • sheraton52sheraton52 Frets: 2
    octatonic said:
    Oh, it isn't THAT difficult.... :-)


    Sorry James.I meant for me!!

    Here's a great version,head starts at 0.55.In unison..rest is a bit messy




    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • BucketBucket Frets: 7749
    bigjon said:

    Also useful for this kind of atonal scronky effect:
    E superlocrian up the open E string -
    0 1 3 4 6 8 10 12
    I LOVE this. Been playing around with it in a couple of different positions, it's great. Have a wisdom.
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3178
    edited November 2013

    Bill Connors is good for those type of solos (his older stuff). Have a listen to this track by him called "Crunchy" - solo at 2.08

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njMMCjPI2HM

    Brett Garsed is superb for combining standard licks, strong legato, chromatism and atonal stuff and he takes the 1st guitar solo after the bass solo (3.18), but it's worth listening to the subsequent solos from the late Shawn Lane and Frank Gambale. Actually, the album this came from, Centrifugal Funk, is pretty good.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXpnUYwbqYs

    Feedback - http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/57885/
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6284
    OP solo sounded so out, it felt like a Les Dawson special.  Backing was too "in" and strong/melodic to allow chromatic widdling.  I love Donna Lee, and chromatic playing, but that just sounded naff and contrived.  IMHO etc
    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
    0reaction image LOL 0reaction image Wow! 0reaction image Wisdom · Share on Twitter
Sign In or Register to comment.