The Oil City Masterwound PAF-Alike thread

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Seeing as Most People are not aware of the Masterwound Series of oil City pickups, I thought I would start a thread talking you through the making of one of my accurate 50s style, lower output humbucker sets. Showing you guys all the steps I go through to create these beasts inspired by the legendary PAF.

Hopefully I can shed some light and explode some myths along the way. I don't have all the answers, but I have taken apart and examined closely several 'golden era, PAFs over the years, and here's what I've found .... this may take a while lol.

Magnets:

It’s a well-documented fact that Gibson actually used alnico 2,3,4, in early PAFs, alnico 5 later as they evolved into the TTop… with no rhyme or reason to it. They simply used whatever their supplier had in stock. What the magnets did have in common was that they were rough cast not polished as a rule. Rough cast magnets ironically are more expensive than polished ones these days, but there is a subtle but noticeable difference in their sound. For the want of a better word, rough cast magnets seem a little more rounded and musical … suited to the vocal and expressive nature of the PAF (and the P90).

Rough cast alnico 4 magnet

Polished alnico 4

Later in about 1961 Gibson started to use shorter but more powerful alnico 5 magnets ... see the difference here

My masterwound series PAF-Alikes can be ordered with alnico 2 or 4 or 5 in rough cast or polished, depending on preference and pickup style ... alnico 3 to follow shortly.

The low down on potting and pickup components next time ...

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Potting: or rather not potting is also a subtle factor in the PAF tone. Personally I don’t believe you can take a modern pickup, use modern building methods and leave it un-potted successfully. It will squeal like a pig. The actual construction of 50s PAFs were more structurally rigid than many of today’s pickups, causing less ‘free play’ between components … and so the design could get away with being un-potted at relatively much higher gain levels than a modern pickup with sloppily fitting components. To that end in my Masterwound PAF-Alikes I use threaded nickel silver base plates, where the pole screw has no ‘slop’ as it passes through.

This is a modern base-plate with over sized holes

And I use drawn and drilled ‘keeper bars’ or ‘pole shoes’ exactly as used in the 50s, as they are a much tighter fit on the pole screws.

Left is a modern spec one, punched out. Right is one of our US made, drawn and machined steel ones.

More on bobbins and wire shortly :-)

Jez6345789 · December 2015

Nice keep it coming

Skodadad · December 2015

Never really occurred to me you could learn anything from looking at old pickups. I am messing with an old 2373b Ibanez bass with some fancy assed looking Maxon pickups. It's a long way from completion so if you can learn anything you are welcome to dismantle one?

Megii · December 2015

Great thread, following with interest, cheers!

rsvmark · December 2015

Great stuff. More please!

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Thanks for the comments everyone. and I'd like to take you up on that @Skodadad

As I said, next I will be going into bobbins and wire ... then I will take you through a complete PAF-Alike build showing you every stage. Its fun to invite you guys 'into my workshop' ... gives you an idea of the time, effort and research that goes into Oil City Pickups :-)

Skodadad · December 2015

Let me have your address mate I'll post you one, or do you need both? Not sure if they are different

OilCityPickups · December 2015

I'll PM you later :-)

TTony · December 2015

Thanks for sharing @TheGuitarWeasel

OilCityPickups · December 2015

TTony said:

Thanks for sharing @TheGuitarWeasel

Don't mention it ...

There is a lot of total hogwash talked online about the PAF, and as I hadn't seen another winder go into this much detail ... I thought this might help explode some myths, Show the bits that really matter ... and the bits that tend to get over hyped,

So few people have had the opportunity to try a guitar fitted with the legendary 'genuine article' that people only get an idea through recordings of famous stars. Back when I worked as a repair man in a music shop in the 70s we handled and played a lot of PAFs ... and there were just as many bad ones as good ones. But the bad ones didn't get chosen for recordings ... and were probably binned in favour of the new fangled Super Distortions that I remember fitting to so many nice old Gibsons at that time. :-)

JCA2550 · December 2015

This is destined to be a "pinned" killer thread.

impmann · December 2015

Nail hit!

The bollocks spoken by some winders on this subject could fertilise a lawn.

An old friend owns a 1961/2 Les Paul SG. The bridge pickup had been switched for a DiMarzio, but the original came with it. I swapped it back for him and it sounded weedy and yet middly and honky.

The DiMarzio is back in there - where it will probably remain as he loves it!

the_jaffa · December 2015

Thank you for all the info Ash, great to see you builder guys going into this kind of detail on here for us punters.

What is it that causes the squeal in an unpotted pickup? Is it a resonance thing?

xJonnysixstring · December 2015

Great info keep it up! I find the main issues is peoples pre conceived perception of what a PAF should sound like, this is based on a handful of instruments that people reference having never used the original pickup in anger in a period instrument. Most guys reference, Page/Clapton/Green-Moore/kossoff in my experience, which in reality is four instruments that have spawned a whole obsession! A great PAF sounds great, But there are some bloody awful ones too! A great Shaw in my opinion is as good as it gets.

Ash is right tight fitting components, a consistent wind and quality ingredients will make a great pickup that WILL fulfil your PAF obsession as long as you are realistic about what the pickup is technically capable of delivering. Keep up the good work sir

OilCityPickups · December 2015

the_jaffa said:

Thank you for all the info Ash, great to see you builder guys going into this kind of detail on here for us punters.

What is it that causes the squeal in an unpotted pickup? Is it a resonance thing?

Any part of a pickup that can move will act like the diaphragm, coil and magnet in a dynamic microphone and turn your pickup microphonic. Hence squeal.

It is less often loose, unpotted winding wire that causes squeal, more often loose magnets, poorly fitting keeper bars, and the chief culprit, improperly fitted covers.

Cheap lower output humbuckers often rely on loads of wax ... often vacuum impregnated ... everywhere, even where not needed, to make up for slack tolerances. Their harmonic richness is compromised because a tiny bit of microphonic response from a pickup is in fact good. Super high output pickups can stand higher levels of potting as their frequency response can be more tightly focused without problems.

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Jonnysixstring said:

Great info keep it up! I find the main issues is peoples pre conceived perception of what a PAF should sound like, this is based on a handful of instruments that people reference having never used the original pickup in anger in a period instrument. Most guys reference, Page/Clapton/Green-Moore/kossoff in my experience, which in reality is four instruments that have spawned a whole obsession! A great PAF sounds great, But there are some bloody awful ones too! A great Shaw in my opinion is as good as it gets.

Ash is right tight fitting components, a consistent wind and quality ingredients will make a great pickup that WILL fulfil your PAF obsession as long as you are realistic about what the pickup is technically capable of delivering. Keep up the good work sir

You've hit it on the nose, as I would expect from another winder. Those four examples were fed through idiosyncratic amp set ups, through analogue desks and mics ... and that is what many base their expectations on. There is no fairy dust or magic bullets in PAF winding, just the best components, the tightest tolerances, and intelligent, consistent winds.

xJonnysixstring · December 2015

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Jonnysixstring said:

Great info keep it up! I find the main issues is peoples pre conceived perception of what a PAF should sound like, this is based on a handful of instruments that people reference having never used the original pickup in anger in a period instrument. Most guys reference, Page/Clapton/Green-Moore/kossoff in my experience, which in reality is four instruments that have spawned a whole obsession! A great PAF sounds great, But there are some bloody awful ones too! A great Shaw in my opinion is as good as it gets.

Ash is right tight fitting components, a consistent wind and quality ingredients will make a great pickup that WILL fulfil your PAF obsession as long as you are realistic about what the pickup is technically capable of delivering. Keep up the good work sir

You've hit it on the nose, as I would expect from another winder. Those four examples were fed through idiosyncratic amp set ups, through analogue desks and mics ... and that is what many base their expectations on. There is no fairy dust or magic bullets in PAF winding, just the best components, the tightest tolerances, and intelligent, consistent winds.

I have honestly had a guy request a true PAF un-potted, then complain and bring it back when it squeals through a EVH amp high gain at full whack! but then the same pickup through a cooking Suhr Badger is simply orgasmic! I find that sometimes our job is to act as a kind of counsellor and adjust things to match the player, which at our level we have that luxury to do. Support the little guys people you won't get this service from anyone else

I love the PAF thing and own more than one period instrument with them in, but in honesty I always go for a hotter bridge pickup matched with a neck PAF or recreation.

Evilmags · December 2015

I've got a couple of Ash's custom shop PAF a likes in my Heritage and they are nicer than anything that's been in their before.

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Jonnysixstring said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

Jonnysixstring said:

Great info keep it up! I find the main issues is peoples pre conceived perception of what a PAF should sound like, this is based on a handful of instruments that people reference having never used the original pickup in anger in a period instrument. Most guys reference, Page/Clapton/Green-Moore/kossoff in my experience, which in reality is four instruments that have spawned a whole obsession! A great PAF sounds great, But there are some bloody awful ones too! A great Shaw in my opinion is as good as it gets.

Ash is right tight fitting components, a consistent wind and quality ingredients will make a great pickup that WILL fulfil your PAF obsession as long as you are realistic about what the pickup is technically capable of delivering. Keep up the good work sir

You've hit it on the nose, as I would expect from another winder. Those four examples were fed through idiosyncratic amp set ups, through analogue desks and mics ... and that is what many base their expectations on. There is no fairy dust or magic bullets in PAF winding, just the best components, the tightest tolerances, and intelligent, consistent winds.

I have honestly had a guy request a true PAF un-potted, then complain and bring it back when it squeals through a EVH amp high gain at full whack! but then the same pickup through a cooking Suhr Badger is simply orgasmic! I find that sometimes our job is to act as a kind of counsellor and adjust things to match the player, which at our level we have that luxury to do. Support the little guys people you won't get this service from anyone else

I love the PAF thing and own more than one period instrument with them in, but in honesty I always go for a hotter bridge pickup matched with a neck PAF or recreation.

Yup I think of myself as a 'sound counselor' ... we give you what the big guys simply haven't the time to do ... advice....

And in my own gigging instruments I go hotter at the bridge too. When you wind you realise DC resistance is not everything, you can create a hotter bridge pickup with tone ... it's just a matter of restraint.

the_jaffa · December 2015

TheGuitarWeasel said:

the_jaffa said:

Thank you for all the info Ash, great to see you builder guys going into this kind of detail on here for us punters.

What is it that causes the squeal in an unpotted pickup? Is it a resonance thing?

Any part of a pickup that can move will act like the diaphragm, coil and magnet in a dynamic microphone and turn your pickup microphonic. Hence squeal.
It is less often loose, unpotted winding wire that causes squeal, more often loose magnets, poorly fitting keeper bars, and the chief culprit, improperly fitted covers.
Cheap lower output humbuckers often rely on loads of wax ... often vacuum impregnated ... everywhere, even where not needed, to make up for slack tolerances. Their harmonic richness is compromised because a tiny bit of microphonic response from a pickup is in fact good. Super high output pickups can stand higher levels of potting as their frequency response can be more tightly focused without problems.

Nice one, thank you. Cheers for explaining that

impmann · December 2015

Interesting you mention Page.

His No1 Les Paul hasn't had a PAF in the bridge position for most of its time with Jimmy. Initially it was replaced by a T Top and I believe it currently has a Seymour (custom wind).

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Indeed ...

xJonnysixstring · December 2015

Thats the official story anyway

Im sworn to secrecy!

impmann · December 2015

I bet it's an Epi pickup based on that!!!

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Right on with the good stuff :-)

50s PAFs were made with Butyl Butyrate bobbins. This was an early plastic compound with a different look and feel to modern bobbin materials. Looking slightly dull and matt compared with shiny modern thermoplastic bobbins, they are harder, bore brittle, and have an odd 'chemical' smell to them.

For my accurate reproductions of 50s pickups I use Butyrate bobbins modeled from 3D scans of originals.

Does it make any difference to the sound? Not that I can detect ... but it certainly makes the pickups look the part ... especially if you chose 'uncovered' as an option. There hardness may have a small impact on sound ... but to be honest I personally can't hear it ... and I have pretty good ears.

Below a Butyrate bobbin top view

and side view

Here is the side view of a modern bobbin for comparison. As you can see there is considerably more 'fresh air' inside and this may be another reason for original PAFs to be more resistant to feedback even when unpotted.

more on wire shortly

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Right on to winding wire now. A subject about which more absolute rubbish is talked than anything else.

Firstly all copper wire of the same gauge is the same, and wire doesn't have a sound of its own anymore than a brick has a characteristic mating call! The differences in sound from different winding wire types are all due to the coating that is added to insulate them. In the 50s Gibson used PVA coated plain enamel wire with a coating of various shades of dark brown down to almost black.

PVA coated wire is an absolute bitch to work with, the insulation being delicate and prone to crack at the bobbin ends if the wire is stretched during winding. It does however 'lay' on a bobbin differently to modern poly coated wire which has a much more robust insulation.

It is this different characteristic of the space the coils take up on the bobbin and the way they overlay each other that is key to why PVA sounds slightly, and subtly different to poly. Note, I didn't say better ... because poly in fact suits many modern pickup designs better than PVA.

Below: a roll of PVA plain enamel wire on my bench with some 60s style Strat bobbins/flatwork

By the way, I hesitate to call PVA coated wire 'plain enamel', as most modern wire manufacturers call their poly coated wire 'plain enamel too. Plus you can get poly wire in the same shade of brown as old PVA to add to the confusion!

Gibson switched from PVA covered to poly in the early sixties for the T-Top humbucker ... and Gibson has only in latter years started using PVA again in it's own PAF style pickups.

The down side of PVA is it's very high cost compared to modern poly wire, and its very limited availability. Our stock comes from the US.

Cabicular · December 2015

really interesting

I have two R9 Gold tops

one of them is painfully microphonic at the bridge pup. I play at reasonable gain so expect a bit and normally rolling the volume off a notch is enough to keep it under control. This one doesn't stop squealing til I have it at 4. Before I get the double boiler out of the cupboard is there anything I can tighten or check?

P.s. I'll PM you about an HSH set for a Jackson

OilCityPickups · December 2015

Cabicular said:

really interesting
I have two R9 Gold tops
one of them is painfully microphonic at the bridge pup. I play at reasonable gain so expect a bit and normally rolling the volume off a notch is enough to keep it under control. This one doesn't stop squealing til I have it at 4. Before I get the double boiler out of the cupboard is there anything I can tighten or check?

P.s. I'll PM you about an HSH set for a Jackson

Hummmm I am going to do a photo story about going inside a modern Gibson Humbucker shortly ... from a repair I did the other day. Sadly the quality of the bobbins and the very wide tolerances generally was a bit of an eye opener. That particular pickup had been factory potted ... if it hadn't been there was little chance it would have been anything but a 'squealer'.

Do the obvious and tighten the bobbin mounting screws a smidge ... and make sure you haven't got a loose pole screw ... but aside from that I would bet on it needing a pot.I tend to put a bit of cloth tape on top of the bobbins before putting a cover on with a pickup that is to be left unpotted. This helps deaden out the vibration and take up any air gap.

I think that double boiler will need to come out.

Just a tip ... drain them after potting upside down ... that way the waste wax takes up any air space on top of the bobbins rather than simply running away down the pickup legs!

ddlooping · December 2015

Very informative thread, Ash, thanks for sharing.

impmann · December 2015

Seconded!

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