The singing thread

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

LastMantra said:

Still think that a "Dust Devil" sounds like a type of vacuum-cleaner. Must just be me

That's precisely why I said this thread isn't about the artistic side of singing - for one I didn't write the lyrics, and two I like the original song and wanted to give it a bash.

LastMantra said:

Drew_fx said:

LastMantra said:

The dust devils swept you away...who wrote that pish? >:D<

Nah, honestly. Sounds a tad formulaic to me Drewseph. Sounds, to me, like you are thinking about what you have been taught to do rather than getting right into the mood.

I'm in no position to judge, but that's what I think.

This thread isn't about the artistic or creative choices side of singing. It's supposed to be purely about technique, although granted there doesn't seem to be too much interest in it. Just another failed venture on the old fretboard forum I suppose! Ah well.

Fair do's mate.
I do kind of think that it is relevant to "technique" though. I think that the main thing that is stopping you producing the sound in your head is, for want of a better word, confidence. "being in the zone", if you will. When you can forget about "technique" and just 'sing it from the heart' it will all come together.

Probably not very helpful? :-?

Scream! Honestly, just scream for a minute. Full volume! See if you can control it in any way. Try just making lots of different noises. Gargling, wheezing, clicking, growling, howling...any and every king of sound you can get out of your mouth. Take a deep breath in and hold an Aum for as long as you can on the exhale...Try 'vibrating' it. Plus shake/loosen off your body.

Hey what's the worst that could happen!

It does sound pretty good Drew, don't get me wrong!

This isn't me being a diva and getting offended that you didn't like it or whatever. I just think you've missed the point of the thread tbh.

And we've had the discussion before Dave, about how confidence is more important than technique and what not. I agree up to a certain point, but you'd be surprised just how much your favourite singers are using technique to basically con you into thinking that they're just up there giving it their all and living in the moment via confidence and self esteem.

It's just very - VERY - often not the case... the best singers are the ones that make the audience think they are doing something based entirely on their passion, when in reality they're following a carefully placed set of breadcrumb trails through their theoretical and technical baseline.

Screaming is actually a perfect example - if you scream in the way you're suggesting for any length of time, you will lose your voice. Screaming in a musical context takes an incredible amount of skill and technique.

Cirrus · March 2016

...Which is probably why I lost my singing voice over the weekend.

Where do you even begin to scream safely? I don't know what to do differently. Teach me!

hugbot · March 2016

Screaming is interesting because in some ways its so counter to normal singing.

Its kinda like this to me: if you try and treat it as an "extra" level of overdrive on top of a sung note it doesent work. Your throat is already tense from the effort of "normal singing" and then you add the extra tension of the growl and your throat goes "fuck that" and rebels.

The result being either a strangled yelp or if you try to push through the yelp, damage.

The trick is to think of it as being not very much like singing at all. When I'm yelling I'm dont only using the diaphram to push, I'm using the diaphram to PITCH as well, rather than pitching from my usual resonators, I'm kinda launching onto it instead. This takes the effort off my throat, freeing it up to get loose and growl.

This is why a lot of screamers have this kind of big, wide vibrato (eg, chris cornel) its because when they're going at it full tilt theres a slightly wild, uncontrolled element to guiding the sound with your diaphram rather than the usual singing resonators.

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

This is the kind of thing I want to get better at when it comes to screaming:

http://picosong.com/h3AW/

LastMantra · March 2016

Well pardon moi! I must have missed the rules-on-what-you-can-write-in-this-thread post :P

BTW Drew, if I thought you'd wrote it I wouldn't have taken the piss

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with my singing voice...so stuff the lot of ye! :P

I used to break it up into small pieces...a line or two even. Then, with some decent earphones, listen back (a good few times) and figure out which of the imperfections I liked/didn't like.

LastMantra · March 2016

My smile is a rifle

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

LastMantra said:

BTW Drew, if I thought you'd wrote it I wouldn't have taken the piss

I'd prefer even if I had that you did. At least it's honest, still not useful mind.

LastMantra · March 2016

So I'm being dishonest by not taking the piss out of you for something you didn't do. >:D<

LastMantra · March 2016

Personally, I think a good primal scream from time to time would do most people the world of good... :-O

...and if you're scared you might get a wee bit hurtied...well I believe you can get some that strap on these days. :P

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

LastMantra said:

Personally, I think a good primal scream from time to time would do most people the world of good... :-O

...and if you're scared you might get a wee bit hurtied...well I believe you can get some that strap on these days. :P

Primal scream therapy has been widely discredited as a load of old wobbly bollocks.

hugbot · March 2016

I've never been more dissapointed by a great band name vs the actual band than Primal Scream.

Sambostar · March 2016

When was the last time I screamed. About 40 years ago? I don't reckon I could get above falsetto though in a scream though, which to most normal people is a A0.

Stop grunting, I'm screaming...stop grunting, this is a serious scream therapy session..ugg. Ah fuck the lot of yers.

Need more voices here? No? I need more materials for personal theories.

Yeah I'm happy with my voice and all, doesn't really say much anything objective though.

All I'II say is it hurts to be in the in-between, the fella who can't full on belly the low notes but can actually hit them lower than the old chesty fart in church and the true baritone who can sing something that resonates with the public ear from his chest.

LastMantra · March 2016

Drew_fx said:

LastMantra said:

Personally, I think a good primal scream from time to time would do most people the world of good... :-O

...and if you're scared you might get a wee bit hurtied...well I believe you can get some that strap on these days. :P

Primal scream therapy has been widely discredited as a load of old wobbly bollocks.

Eh........thanks? 8-}

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

LastMantra said:

So I'm being dishonest by not taking the piss out of you for something you didn't do. >:D<

I never said you were being dishonest.

hugbot · March 2016

Heres me practising some screamy vox and probably really annoying the neighbors

timmysoft · March 2016

Here's some screaming I did a few years back, I did both the open scream and the tighter higher one too, out live I only used the higher scream as it was friendlier to my vocal chords, I could hit the scream and still join in on other backing vocals too.

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

hugbot said:

Heres me practising some screamy vox and probably really annoying the neighbors

I quite like the grit on that man, I think on some parts you could dial it back a bit though and make it a bit more dynamic. The emphasis on "but who gives a..." is good. The higher parts at the end lose a little something for me (helll yeeeaaahhh) but I can't quite articulate what it is.

PS: I'd dial the reverb and delay a bit lower, or roll off on the high-end on them. Just let the main vocal part cut through a bit more.

hugbot · March 2016

'who gives a shit ' is more false chord, after the 'yeahhh ' i tried to transition it more up to fry which was less than elegant I agree.

Also for the 'lost it a little bit ' you're right, I (ironically, considering the lyric) lost diapham support a little. It ought to be a more smoothly applied pressure to keep the whole phrase even, it ought to be ' ahh lost iiiiiiitt a little biiiit' instead I got caught up in the song and am spitting out the words ahead of the tempo.

LastMantra · March 2016

Drew_fx said:

LastMantra said:

So I'm being dishonest by not taking the piss out of you for something you didn't do. >:D<

I never said you were being dishonest.

I never said I don't like it :P As the song goes on you seem to relax a bit an, IMHO, it's a significant improvement. If you could come in like that it would help. Generally though I think you have a decent sounding voice...and it's definitely improving all the time. Sorry if I came across as overly harsh...thought a man of your calibre would take it in your stride.! Love you xx

Sambostar · March 2016

This kid is quite helpful with his screams, rasps, files and sandpaper videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Omp8I_VjSvk

Sambostar · March 2016

I've been practicing diction really and trying to get rid of smokers throat (Generally trying to get a purer Canadian tone) finishing eating pizza. I'm not really worried about range anymore. Couple of Beck songs 2:52.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/buck

Sambostar · March 2016

I wish I had the guts to scream at the top of my voice to see if I can hit some more notes. The truth is that I don't and honestly, the neighbours, knowing me would probably call the men in white coats or at the very least would probably come over to see if something was wrong with me. To be locked away is my worst nightmare. In actual fact I donno if I'm even capable of screaming, I didn't even scream when some bloke tried to stab me with a carving knife, I wrestled it off him and nearly ended up stabbing him through the eyeball with the rush of it, but it's just not my style. I think I'II just focus on getting a smoother speaking tone. Repressed. Couldn't even speak until I was 6. Had to go to speech therapy at 10. Fuck sakes. I am kind of intrinsically aware though that this music lark, your expression and level of communication, it is all about your tone of delivery though and not so much about what you have to say or the notes you can achieve, which makes sense to me at least, using the analogy of guitar playing guitar or any other instrument where technical players I don't rate compared to lesser players with tone.

Excuse me whilst I just open the door and go on a therapy session

Fuuuuuck Offf!

It's all about finding the acceptable tone though eh, which is probably wrong as it's the energy which translates better anyway.

Sambostar · March 2016

OK. It does all come down to range after all and what you're born with at least to start with.

I've been looking at some live stuff of Nirvana and he struggles to put out a decent growly low note on 'Mood' and 'Food' on the verse in 'In Bloom' as his low range is tailing off. Where as when I try and sing the chorus it comes out like a load of barking seals and walruses and it doesn't matter if I shout or scream or anything, it's just beyond my basic high range capabilities.

Ass.

hugbot · March 2016

@Drew_fx did you do that screaming coach thing?

Drew_TNBD · March 2016

hugbot said:

@Drew_fx did you do that screaming coach thing?

This Thursday guv!

Sambostar · March 2016

This is gonna come back as some serious Billy Corgan ha ha. Hope you can post the results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IDz8DLMWOM

Some ace screaming

Sambostar · March 2016

Whilst I agree you can increase your range, I think to say that range doesn't exist is a total fallacy. Tell it to the Eagles with Randy Meiser singing lead on Take it to the Limit and doing some even more amazing falsetto and they were all singers.

Drew_TNBD · April 2016

No-one said range doesn't exist.

Sambostar · April 2016

Oh, I must have got the wrong end of the stick then. I thought you were going on about your teacher telling you baritone, tenor, bass, soprano and all that is a bit of a crock?

How'd the shouting go?

Sambostar · April 2016

I was reading...ha...reading that most singers sing at loud talking volume to save their vocals, night after night.

Also that your natural chest voice is where you speak. Well for me that's definitely around F2 to Eflat2. I can hit an A1 now quite easily...Ace..

I've been listening to Smashing Pumpkins all evening and have them in my head, so grabbed the guitar and thought I'II try one of their tunes, it's bad, really dire, but this is maximum head voice, in fact most of it is in head voce, sadly even the lower bits, it's not supposed to be good and I was still working it out. It's getting a little bit higher, slowly. Basically I'm still fucked though, but it's why I can vaguely relate to how Billy Corgan sings and I like the way he turns it into something he owns. This demonstrates my problems, it's just range really and I suppose a bit of the transition into head voice and not pushing my chest up. Later on you can see where I break into head voice. I need to hire a teacher for a few hours at least to tell me where it's at.

This is just an attempt to fully sing at the top of my head voice. That is all really. And the fact that everyone finds it hard transitioning from chest to head, but whilst I don't have an especially deep voice, I am a few tones lower. That is all. I am beginning to bore myself a bit. It's just so frustrating though eh. It being in your head, but not coming out at the right register eh. Still something to practice on. You can hear in the next bit, although it's pissing about, how much richer my chest voice actually is, just it's too low. So I relate to Billy Corgan for sure.

https://soundcloud.com/user360616451/problems

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