Which high end acoustic with slim neck- budget of £3000 (new)

buckfast · October 2015

Hi all,

I am new to the forum and am a current owner of a GS Mini and a Blueridge BR-160. I like these guitars due to their great playability (for me). I have relatively small hands and love these guitars for their slim neck profiles along with the narrow nut widths.

I am currently saving for a lifetime guitar - something with supreme playability (that fits my needs, ie something with a slim neck profile) and excellent tone. I prefer spruce / rosewood guitars, and would prefer an OM size (but still wouldn't rule out a dread) for comfort.

I figure I would have about 3k saved in about 4 months time (helped along by selling my electrics) and I wonder what guitar would you recommend? I know many will saw Lowden, but I am put off by their necks, which are a little large for me.

I would also prefer a relatively well known brand, rather than a luthier.

So, would love to hear your suggestions!

Thanks!

capo4th · October 2015

http://www.dawsons.co.uk/redwood-s10-soprano-ukulele-sparkle?gclid=CMCEhK7nrsgCFaIIwwodgJ4OQw

FelineGuitars · October 2015

These are rather good - shop around the corner has one that I love and they are only about £700

http://maysonguitars.eu/

Evilmags · October 2015

Lower would fit that bill perfectly.

DavidRees · October 2015

Brook?

crunchman · October 2015

If you like Lowden you may be able to custom order one with a smaller neck.

Like you I have short fingers and the nut width put me off. When I was at the London acoustic show the other week, I talked to one of the guys on the Lowden stand and he said that you could custom order something through a dealer with a smaller neck.

As @DavidRees says Brook are great as well. I've had a Brook in the past, but the shallow neck and really flat fingerboard put me off. Personally I like a bit of depth - just not too much width.

Martin do different neck profiles. They aren't all massive pre-war style. It might be worth giving one a try.

richardhomer · October 2015

Taylor have pretty much written the book on making highly playable acoustics.

The 14 Series are the nearest equivalent to an OM. If you like the sound of Lowdens - which to my ears have a softer attack than most American guitars - the cedar and mahogany 514ce may be worth a try.

The cedar top sounds less 'hi fi' than spruce - it's probably the most balanced sounding Taylor you can buy. The spruce/rosewood ones tend to be very bright compared to Martins.

Jalapeno · October 2015

richardhomer said:

Taylor have pretty much written the book on making highly playable acoustics.

True (and quoted before LOL'd ! )

Closest to an electric neck, it's why they are so popular

richardhomer · October 2015

Jalapeno;807839" said:
True (and quoted before LOL'd ! )

Are you admitting to being the Phantom Loller then?

Jalapeno · October 2015

Not me Guv, honest !

richardhomer · October 2015

Jalapeno;807987" said:
Not me Guv, honest !

I can't decide whether to just take the Frets and chill about it, or get really irritated.

I'm guessing there will be a punchline - possibly along the lines of when I hit 5000 Frets, the 'Lols' will be systematically removed by the perpetrator, casting me back into mid-table obscurity....

musicman100 · October 2015

buckfast;52446" said:
Hi all,

I am new to the forum and am a current owner of a GS Mini and a Blueridge BR-160. I like these guitars due to their great playability (for me). I have relatively small hands and love these guitars for their slim neck profiles along with the narrow nut widths.

I am currently saving for a lifetime guitar - something with supreme playability (that fits my needs, ie something with a slim neck profile) and excellent tone. I prefer spruce / rosewood guitars, and would prefer an OM size (but still wouldn't rule out a dread) for comfort.

I figure I would have about 3k saved in about 4 months time (helped along by selling my electrics) and I wonder what guitar would you recommend? I know many will saw Lowden, but I am put off by their necks, which are a little large for me.

I would also prefer a relatively well known brand, rather than a luthier.

So, would love to hear your suggestions!

Thanks!

I've recently got s Taylor 816 and it's bloody lovely.
There are just shy of 3000 mark

musicman100 · October 2015

I too didn't want a luthier built guitar

mgaw · October 2015

I think you are missing a trick not looking at Luthier built guitars especially 2nd hand checkthese guys out

Bill Tippin

John Greven

both of their guitars can be had for around the £3k mark 2nd hand and i really dont think you get any better.....i have a Tippin and have had a Greven amongst all the major brands a larger more well known Luthiers...these are right up there with the best of the best and offer way better bang for buck.

I als feel that Lowdens are terrific value for money IF you like that style of guitar,(tonally)..i dont really rate Brooks..played a few and was unmoved.

Nowadays there are loads of very good guitars available around £2k and below that its hard to find true value higher up as far as tone and playability go...hence Tippin and Greven being my tip if you like.

How many of them do you see 2nd hand...and there are a few thousand in circulation....

musicman100 · October 2015

I guess it's so subjective. But I really love my Taylor 816 and worth every penny.
I've just never been impressed by the uk luthier built guitars that I've played an thought most were over priced

buckfast · October 2015

I have heard many (mostly our friends from the USA) rave about Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois. Any opinions on these?

richardhomer · October 2015

buckfast;808653" said:
I have heard many (mostly our friends from the USA) rave about Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois. Any opinions on these?

I've played a lot of Collings and two Santa Cruz.

Both build guitars which are patterned after classic Martins (000/OMs and Dreadnoughts).

The Collings sounded very 'tight' (they were all brand new and would no doubt open up with playing). In their 'new' state, none bowled me over tonally. Their set-ups were definitely optimised for volume, rather than playability - in other words, very hard work for an electric player.

The SCs were easier to play and sounded 'looser'. The Dreadnought was probably the best I've ever played. Their OM was very good too - though the best guitar I've played of that type is a neighbour's sunburst 00028 (not strictly an OM but the same body size).

Given your stated requirements, I'd start with Taylor - not a brand which is universally loved among 'serious' acoustic players - but superb if you get on with their sound.

mgaw · October 2015

I played a Collings 0002h every day for about 5 years...impeccably built, faultless stuff..but lacks the magic....Bourgeois...i have tried a few, different from Collings but again you are paying a lot of money and no magic for me...Santa Cruz only tried one lovely but agian underwhelming ultimately....

just check out how many of these Brands are for sale 2nd hand...

As for Taylor i would ignore the above advice (no offence Richard) but just NO...easy to play good tone but there is the problem a good functional guitar.

Honestly if you are going to spend that kind of Money why not go to 2 shops The North American Guitar co in Fulham

and The Acoustic Music Co in Brighton.....there is a great selection of new and used guitars sold by people who really know their stuff, and also it will give you a unique opportunity to play a wide range of some of the best guitar builders work around today.

Then you are going to be in a far better place regarding what you want and what is good value for money.

I would be surprised if you werent staggered at how much better, for similar money, these small Luthier built guitars can be...and finally with only a few exceptions i would avoid UK built, mainly because i honestly believe many are well overrated and expensive for what you get.

|If its the lifetime guitar dont spend an afternoon or two playing loads of samey factory produced gear when there are some truly remarkable instruments around.....good luck mate...i know this all sounds a bit preachy but i was astounded at the step up in quality i experienced when the Tippin arrived...the tone is just so musical ...amazing

musicman100 · October 2015

The best thing to do is just get out there and play loads of different makes n models n make up ur own mind.
Otherwise you will just get totally confused by people on here telling you this n that. At the end of the day it's your money n it's going to be your guitar.
It's a minefield when spending a large amount of money on a guitar.
My Taylor 816 is the most expensive acoustic I own n I think it's worth every penny.
I agree with Mgaw regarding uk luthier built guitas though.
I've not play many that I've thought wow I want to hand over a large amount of cash for this guitar.
Good luck with whatever u decide though.

crunchman · October 2015

buckfast said:

I have heard many (mostly our friends from the USA) rave about Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois. Any opinions on these?

Most of the Santa Cruz I've played have been absolutely brilliant. A 12 fret pre-war spec OOO that I tried once may well have been the best sounding acoustic I've played. It wouldn't meet your criteria on the neck though.

Collings on the other hand I don't get. I think @mgaw said it best when he said that they are impeccably built but lack the magic. They are mostly based on Martins but to me don't sound as good as the higher end Martins. I'd have a Martin HD28V over the Collings version of a D28 any day.

To be honest a lot of Santa Cruz and Collings guitars are based on Martins. I'd definitely try a few of the higher end Martins. Some of them have huge necks, but not all. They do make a variety of neck profiles.

I would disagree with @mgaw about some of the UK stuff. There is some very good UK stuff, but having said that I'm not sure that I'd have the confidence to order something as they can vary. I played dreadnought made by Moon about 10 years ago that I would say is up there with almost anything, but I tried another recently and was totally underwhelmed. I'd much rather try something first. Some of the UK makers are stocked by shops so you can try them. Moon is in a handful of shops and I've played very good stuff in shops by Brook (if you like the neck - I don't), Atkin and David Anthony Reid. If you are near London then Ivor Mairants might have some of these in.

I played some Rozawood guitars at the London Acoustic show recently that were stunning. They weren't particularly small necks though. If you did want to risk the custom order route they would probably make something to your specs - and being in the Czech Republic they are probably going to be a bit cheaper than an equivalent UK or US guitar.

I don't understand why people are recommending Taylors. There is the odd good one, but mostly they sound thin and tinny.

CloudNine · October 2015

I have owned quite a few high end acoustics. Prob 6 SCGC, 3 Bourgeois, 5 Collings. loads of high end Martins and a whole host of other more obscure stuff. Have finally settled with a Collings CJ35 as being the best all round guitar I have ever played. I would agree with what has been said about most Collings being quite tight and bright and I reckon they probably need a good 10yrs of hard playing to get the best out of them, but this CJ35 is definitely not like that at all.

Whilst I probably could not live long term with most Collings due to the slightly aggressive tone, what you do get is the most incredible long term stability. I love SCGC guitars and they have a very responsive intimate feel, but I have seen a lot with some serious structural issues, in guitars that are not really that old. Collapsed tops, necks needing early resets etc. With Collings they hardly seem to change, even over long term. Just something else to consider I guess if you are looking at very lightly built guitars. A good example being the Martin Authentic range where you can find a youtube clip of the CEO saying that a very large proportion of the (high) price of the guitar, is the warranty costs built in. Would I buy a 2nd hand Martin Authentic? Not a chance..

Given the OP's desire for a slim neck though, I would maybe focus in on trying some Bourgeois guitars as they consistently have quite slim necks compared to Martin, SCGC, Collings etc. They use beautiful wood, are pretty stable guitars, bolt on neck for easy resets in the future if needed. Bourgeois OM's are really a strong point in their line as well.

Re. mgaw's view on the Greven's, Tippin's etc., seems they are really nice guitars, although from a limited experience with a Tippin dread, I did not think that it was any tonal improvement over what you can find with SCGC and Bourgeois, plus there aren't that many around to really try in the UK, so might not be an easy route to go down.

crunchman · October 2015

How lightly/or heavily they are built does seem to be a factor. At a slightly lower price point, Furch are absolutely brilliant but I've heard stories of problems with them because they are very lightly built. I've not had any problems with the two I've had but I use 11s. It might be different with 13s.

For me, the more lightly built guitars sound a lot better. Even with Martin, I much prefer the prewar specs (something like an HD28V) to a post war spec D28. I think the post war spec was introduced because Martin were getting too many problems with the older ones when people were putting really thick strings on them to try to keep up with other instruments volume wise, but it's the pre-war ones that are regarded as the holy grail of acoustic tone.

The standard D28 might come alive with 13s but I'm not about to cut my fingers to shreds trying to find out.

buckfast · October 2015

Thanks for all the comments.

Yes, I prefer lightly built acoustics too. I have a cheap Blueridge BR-160 which is lightly built and sounds amazing.

I also agree on some of the opinions above on Taylors - most of them are pretty average to me.

I will look into Bourgeois a bit more, although I have heard others comment that Collings have slimmer necks than the Bourgeois. (maybe they mean the nut width, as I dont think that Bourgeois do 1 11/16 nut width, but Collings do).

Requirements are:

1 11/16 nut width + Slim neck profile + lightly built + well known brand

CloudNine · October 2015

Pretty sure Collings and Bourgeois do a variety of nut widths.

Can say for certain that your average Bourgeois neck will be slimmer than a Collings. Both do some carves that are pretty accessible to all, i.e. not too fat. Collings seem to offer some much fatter ones though, labelled Vintage and Vintage Now I think. Can't recall ever seeing a Bourgeois with a chunky neck.

olafgarten · October 2015

You can get a fully custom neck on a Lowden for an extra £200.

Bluesman1989 · October 2015

I've got a brand new Collings OM2H going under RRP. Has a 1 3/4" nut though so maybe not quite what you're after?

AuldReekie · October 2015

crunchman said:

buckfast said:

I have heard many (mostly our friends from the USA) rave about Collings, Santa Cruz, Bourgeois. Any opinions on these?

Andre with your points re Taylor's and UK luthiers. Taylor's just don't have any subtlety and if you want that sort of modern sound, give me Larrivee anyway over them. Re UK luthiers, have never played Martin, Taylor, Collings, Santa Cruz are not in the same league as the Model C that I had built by Nigel Forster in Newcastle, in fact I have never played another acoustic that comes close to it in terms of responsiveness and depth of tone. Most of the Santa Cruz I've played have been absolutely brilliant. A 12 fret pre-war spec OOO that I tried once may well have been the best sounding acoustic I've played. It wouldn't meet your criteria on the neck though.

Collings on the other hand I don't get. I think @mgaw said it best when he said that they are impeccably built but lack the magic. They are mostly based on Martins but to me don't sound as good as the higher end Martins. I'd have a Martin HD28V over the Collings version of a D28 any day.

To be honest a lot of Santa Cruz and Collings guitars are based on Martins. I'd definitely try a few of the higher end Martins. Some of them have huge necks, but not all. They do make a variety of neck profiles.

I would disagree with @mgaw about some of the UK stuff. There is some very good UK stuff, but having said that I'm not sure that I'd have the confidence to order something as they can vary. I played dreadnought made by Moon about 10 years ago that I would say is up there with almost anything, but I tried another recently and was totally underwhelmed. I'd much rather try something first. Some of the UK makers are stocked by shops so you can try them. Moon is in a handful of shops and I've played very good stuff in shops by Brook (if you like the neck - I don't), Atkin and David Anthony Reid. If you are near London then Ivor Mairants might have some of these in.

I played some Rozawood guitars at the London Acoustic show recently that were stunning. They weren't particularly small necks though. If you did want to risk the custom order route they would probably make something to your specs - and being in the Czech Republic they are probably going to be a bit cheaper than an equivalent UK or US guitar.

I don't understand why people are recommending Taylors. There is the odd good one, but mostly they sound thin and tinny.

musicman100 · October 2015

There seems to be one thing missing in all this talk about what sounds good n what's not.
Let's look chet Atkins or tommy Emmanuel.
Is thier sound anything to do with all this talk about different makes n models.
At the end of the day you can get obsessed about this Guitar n that guitar but any guitar is only as good as the hands that play it.
I play chet style n for to me my Taylor 816 is a lovely guitar. Sounds great, plays great n looks sweet too.

mgaw · October 2015

fair point but it gets frustrating when the guitar you have spent nearly £3k has limitations...the better the guitar the more you can pull out of it and the more pleasure you get....but you are right ultimately it comes down to the player.

musicman100 · October 2015

mgaw;810764" said:
fair point but it gets frustrating when the guitar you have spent nearly £3k has limitations...the better the guitar the more you can pull out of it and the more pleasure you get....but you are right ultimately it comes down to the player.

I'm not expert on acoustics. It's only opinion on my Taylor 816 and I appreciate Some of you guys will know a lot more than me about acoustic guitars.
By the way I'm new here but it seems a very friendly n informative place.
Glad to be here.

Bluesman1989 · October 2015

I'll throw in a mention or Eggle - The playability and tone out of a Rosewood/Cedar Linvlle (OM) I played was beautiful. The s/h Bourgeois OM at TAMCO was very close, but for me, just shy of the Eggle.

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Which high end acoustic with slim neck- budget of £3000 (new)

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