Query failed: connection to localhost:9312 failed (errno=111, msg=Connection refused). Major 7th chords - Theory Discussions on The Fretboard
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UNPLANNED DOWNTIME: 12th Oct 23:45

Major 7th chords

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Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
in Theory
Cmaj7 or C <little triangle> 7 pleez.

"CM7" is bad enough in print (even though you're supposed to suss from the upper case that Cm7 is not meant) but in handwriting - if you perpetrate it you should be shot.

Anyone else hate the M7 notation?
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  • MatthewShredderyMatthewShreddery Frets: 861
    Maj7 chords are for sissies anyway so who cares?
    My Trading Feedback:
    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60017/
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  • MatthewShredderyMatthewShreddery Frets: 861
    ;)
    My Trading Feedback:
    http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/60017/
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    If liking them makes me a sissy, then I'm a sissy :)

    BTW I also like minor, dominant, half-diminished, and diminished 7ths. I don't think I'm discriminatory, except for the context in which I use them ;)
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719

    My philosophy is this: CΔ - chances are very very strong that I'm going to try it as CΔ7, CΔ9, CΔ11 and CΔ13 at least once anyway ;)

    Equally I don't bother embellishing Cm to Cm7 as I like Cm13 and Cm♭13 and seeing which does the trick.

    As for Δ7 being for wimps, try subbing a Diminished chords for a Δ7 a semitone below. 

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    wotyer fink of the notation though @frankus? whenever I see 'm' (or even 'M') I read it as minor, and then have to perform some kind of mental correction because somebody has used upper case to mean major. and in handwriting, it's just effing ambiguous!
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719

    I always use a delta, most of the fake books I've ever used, use a delta for major or Maj. 

    Band in a Box uses " Maj" which is clearer than an upper case M.

    I don't like capitalisation in notation, although at one stage I used to write Nashville notation thusly: iii iv ii V I - I got told off by Dario Cortese :D  

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • equalsqlequalsql Frets: 5849
    frankus said:

    My philosophy is this: CΔ - chances are very very strong that I'm going to try it as CΔ7, CΔ9, CΔ11 and CΔ13 at least once anyway ;)

    Equally I don't bother embellishing Cm to Cm7 as I like Cm13 and Cm♭13 and seeing which does the trick.

    As for Δ7 being for wimps, try subbing a Diminished chords for a Δ7 a semitone below. 

    Are we talking maths here with all these triangles? ... C and the rate of change of 7, C and the rate of change of 9..  my head hurts.

    Cmaj7 chords are lovely happy spring bright things that should never be hurt and should have their own happy smiley thread...anyway!

    (pronounced: equal-sequel)   "I suffered for my art.. now it's your turn"
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 724

    frankus said:

    My philosophy is this: CΔ - chances are very very strong that I'm going to try it as CΔ7, CΔ9, CΔ11 and CΔ13 at least once anyway ;)

    Equally I don't bother embellishing Cm to Cm7 as I like Cm13 and Cm♭13 and seeing which does the trick.

    As for Δ7 being for wimps, try subbing a Diminished chords for a Δ7 a semitone below. 

    Yes, the triangle sign (Δ) is popular, I think the triangle originally signified a triad.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • mike_lmike_l Frets: 5698

    I was taught M7 can be read as minor7, so to be clear it's Maj7.

     

    I think I've played a Maj7 once in the last 5 years.

    Ringleader of the Cambridge cartel, pedal champ and king of the dirt boxes (down to 21) 

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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    Just to be clear: Cmaj7 should be written that way or as CΔ7 ...

    ... but NEVER as "CM7"
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719


    Agreed, CM7 is Dunmow ;)

    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    @frankus well played sir!
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 724
    edited August 2015

    frankus said:


    Agreed, CM7 is Dunmow ;)

    I think Dunmow is CM6, Braintree is CM7
    ;)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    Braintree?
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 724
    frankus said:
    Braintree?
    Ah yes, CM7 is Braintree, Dunmow is CM6.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    ok
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 724
    Anyway, I've only ever played Maj7 chords when playing old Jazz standards. I never play the fifth with a Maj7, so adding more flexibility for the soloist. With a band, you really only need two notes the 3rd and 7th.
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    bass players tend to get territorial over the root and fifth ;)
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1230
    Major 7th's can be Minor 9th's in disguise.
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    ArchtopDave said:
    Major 7th's can be Minor 9th's in disguise.
    im intrigued. how so?
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1230
    edited August 2015
    Phil_aka_Pip said:
    ArchtopDave said:
    Major 7th's can be Minor 9th's in disguise.
    im intrigued. how so?
    For Example ::  G minor 9 is made up of ;  G, Bb, D, F, A.

                             Remove the Root Note (G) and you are left with Bb,D,F,A,, which is Bb Major 7 !!
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  • citizen68citizen68 Frets: 172
    Even the Manic's use major 7's - can't be sissies
    Seemed like a good idea.....

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  • BradBrad Frets: 590
    Stick the 7th in the bass, I dares ya...
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    ArchtopDave said:
    Phil_aka_Pip said:
    ArchtopDave said:
    Major 7th's can be Minor 9th's in disguise.
    im intrigued. how so?
    For Example ::  G minor 9 is made up of ;  G, Bb, D, F, A.

                             Remove the Root Note (G) and you are left with Bb,D,F,A,, which is Bb Major 7 !!
    Egad Sir, you're right. A different "hidden one" which I use a fair bit (and which, tbh, should have come to mind when I tried to think  about your example) is B-7-5 as a substitute for G9, again losing the root. I am slowly beginning to realise the truth of what was said a long time ago at the Guitar Institute, that if you can leave the root to someone else you can create more complex sounds out of stacking simpler things on top, eg Em with a C root = Cmaj7. 'Tis something I experimented with at the time, and IIRC I made a list of what you get when you stack things on different roots, but only recently have I consciously begun to use it. Thanks for the nudge :)
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • bingefellerbingefeller Frets: 5723

    If you have a maj7 chord play a harmonic minor from the 3rd - eg Cmaj7 play E harmonic minor. 

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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    bingefeller said:

    If you have a maj7 chord play a harmonic minor from the 3rd - eg Cmaj7 play E harmonic minor. 

    that would leave you with a #5 and a #9 with respect to the C. OK if you want that sort of thing, I suppose ...
    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • JalapenoJalapeno Frets: 6284
    Lose the M or m if you're using the Δ sign for major, you ought to adopt all of the jazz notation ....

    - minor
    º diminished
    Ø half diminished / m7b5
    7 dominant

    Imagine something sharp and witty here ......

    Feedback
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  • ArchtopDaveArchtopDave Frets: 1230
    edited August 2015
    Phil_aka_Pip said:
    bingefeller said:

    If you have a maj7 chord play a harmonic minor from the 3rd - eg Cmaj7 play E harmonic minor. 

    that would leave you with a #5 and a #9 with respect to the C. OK if you want that sort of thing, I suppose ...

    There's only #9 and #11. E Harmonic Minor Scale : E F# G A B C D# E. The notes of C Maj7 are all within the Scale.

    Another little bit of musical mind gymnastics. You sometimes see a Gmin7 chord replacing C7. It''s just C11 (C  E G Bb D F) with the Root and 3rd removed.

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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9793
    sorry yes youre right the G is natural

    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
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  • bingefellerbingefeller Frets: 5723
    Phil_aka_Pip said:
    bingefeller said:

    If you have a maj7 chord play a harmonic minor from the 3rd - eg Cmaj7 play E harmonic minor. 

    that would leave you with a #5 and a #9 with respect to the C. OK if you want that sort of thing, I suppose ...

    If it works for Kurt Rosenwinkel....
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