Doe a Deer (warning, Sound of Music content)

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

@thomasross20 ;

You'd be surprised. You may not play an entire scale of this stuff, unless you are a solo jazz player or something like that, but the extra fretboard knowledge this kind of exercise gives you can really help.

thomasross20 · June 2015

It doesn't sound too bad in terms of what to do. Basically you guys are playing C or A shapes starting from the A string and playing the 3rd or 5th in the bass on the E string, right? Do you do the same with the D shape starting from the D string?

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

Forgot to add this only works up to C#, at which point you play A/C#, then B/D# then E.

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

Do Re Me (mi):

bloodandtears · June 2015

@MatthewShreddery ... cheers for this...

I'm right in thinking it supports the chords I'd listed earlier ie.. E major --> F#/B etc..??

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

@bloodandtears

Pretty much, though I think you got some of your letters muddled up.

Chords I played were:

E

B7/F#

E/G#

B7/A

E/B

A/C#

B7/D#

E

frankus · June 2015

MatthewShreddery said:

frankus said:

I think I'm lost... is 7 chordwang?

What do you mean?

What I mean is:

By x over y chords do we mean "slash chords" i.e C7/G?

Where's the context? ..if it helps understand inversions - what's the sticking point of inversions that it's attempting to overcome?

Saying re is a dominant chord is at odds with the solfage music system which is about intervals from a root note, so not enough information to determine minor/major or dominant.

Saying the second chord in diatonic chord progression is at odds with Nashville notation... so why is that?

How come me reverts to an E chord... there's not even a one to one correspondence of solfage to chords and no indication of the pool of chords that are being chosen from or the reason for their inclusion.

After reading the whole thread several times, I have pieced together this: people are talking about playing Do-Re-Mi from the Sound of Music in such a way that some sort of bassline does something with the inversions and this is edifying in some way.

After a few more rereads and googling the fakebook for do-re-mi I can transpose the song from C and G7 .. (so that's where the E and B7 is coming from).

So yeah, like Arthur C. Clarke's law "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", frankus' law is "any music theory insufficiently explained is indistinguishable from numberwang".. ja MatthiasSchehderrei, das is richtig!! das ist numberwang... glauben!

It's been a bit of a clusterf**k of domain specific terms with no original context to pin on any one of them... it's taken too much effort to get to sort the information out to this extent:

The song do-re-mi can help with inversions (some how).

Usually written in C, we're going to transpose it E (for some reason)

We're going to use slash chords to describe an ascending bassline played as we alternate from E to B7

Somehow the slash chords relate back to inversions.

...at that point I am thinking "It took less time to really learn the Ruy Lopez opening in chess".

... that's what I mean.

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

It's just a bit of fun mate

frankus · June 2015

for you maybe, I've tried earnestly to figure out wtf is being described.

Apart from a few sages who seem to have read about this elsewhere and not shared links to the better descriptions they must have read, because anyone grokking it from this thread is not clever they're a f***ing psychic.

I kinda get fed up with something, that increasingly feels like a largess, I like being included, I like understanding music stuff, I've had some great teachers and I know I'm capable enough - but I've never been okay with people getting huffy because what they're saying is not making sense... what it boils down to is indifference or impatience or something like, and a resentment at the person who (originally) patiently offered the opportunity to revisit what was being said and describe it more clearly.

EricTheWeary · June 2015

MatthewShreddery;656695" said:
frankus said:

I think I'm lost... is 7 chordwang?

What do you mean?

I assumed that was like numberwang for guitarists and the only bit of this Discussion I could make any sense of.

viz · June 2015

Hello chaps,

Sorry if I've come across like I'm over-theorising, it's just that I enjoy playing different inversions to achieve the right chord voicings with the right bass note, and the Doe a Deer song is great for practising that skill. And then so are many other songs such as We are the Champions, What a wonderful world, and many others.

It's pretty apparent that the way I'm describing it is not conveying it properly and it's probably because my descriptions are a mixture of home-grown and classical - I missed out the step of actually learning the guitar and traditional guitar-based language. But it's not trying to be numberwang (love the description!), it really is a useful way of thinking and it's great to practise. Maybe I'll do a video that might be simpler.

frankus · June 2015

Hi, I'm probably coming over as grumpier than I am. I've been watching a lot of Mitchell and Webb so I find it easy to drift into a David Mitchell exasperated whine...

I get that some people on this thread understand what it is your describing and it's fair that you guys discuss this.

I also appreciate that describing stuff for other people is a proper ball-ache.

And I appreciated that describing stuff well for other people is a proper proper ball ache

viz · June 2015

I will deff have a go at a vid in the weekend.

MatthewShreddery · June 2015

I take it my video is of no help then?

I know not all the chords I did in the video were not from that song.

To be honest, when I first read this thread I had no idea it was about the song from The Sound of Music.

I just picked up on the pattern in the first post and new of a little pattern I'd learnt somewhere along the way.

I'm not sure if @frankus points are directed at me - this isn't my thread so I hope not.

viz · June 2015

Hey, yes, cheers, good video - they're good for the normal do re mi progression, but as you mentioned, they're not from Doe a Deer - I should have probably made that clearer at the very start! anyway, onwards and upwards.

viz · June 2015

Oh - that's you? nice playing. nice guitar.

viz · June 2015

Right I had a go at a picture of what I've been trying to go on about. Not sure if it's readable but here it is:

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/Vizzage/Picture4_zpsfmgkr4eb.jpg

I realise now that the inversions are an uncommon way of describing these voicings in guitar. However for me, knowing the inversions in the traditional format, ie. root, 1st, 2nd etc., is a really really useful step in being able to play harmony more easily. I know most guitarists go with the E/G# format, because it's a useful naming device for a specific chord, but the generic approach of saying E 1st inversion is to my mind so much more applicable in any situation. It means you can apply it to any chord - it's much easier to snap immediately to C# 1st anywhere on the fretboard than to try and work out what and where C#/F is. And it says so much more about the chord's harmonic purpose.

It also offers an alternative to CAGED. If you're talking harmonically you'd say E can be played as root, 1st or 2nd inversion (so 0 2 2 1 0 0, 4 7 6 4 5 4, and 7 7 9 9 9 7) - ie. E-style chords, C-style chords and A-style chords; and A can be played in root, 1st or 2nd (so x 0 2 2 2 0, x 4 2 2 2 5, and x 7 7 9 10 9) - ie. A-style, G-style and D-style. This helps not only in finding the voicing more quickly, but also gets you into the habit of being able to recognise the inversions and therefore the sound of the bass within the chord.

I think ECA, AGD is much more harmonically and musically-oriented than CAGED, which is more fretboard-oriented. Imo

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Doe a Deer (warning, Sound of Music content)

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