Another amp musing - Blackstar Vs Fender Vs Wangs (not typo)

thecolourbox · October 2013

Hi all

Following the ecstatic (or indeed ex-static given the situation!) resolution of my noise issues, it has prompted me to really look at my gear and what I keep, what I lose, and what to get in the place of things I move on.

The pedals part is ticking along, but the amp part is still a bit of a sticking point.

I fancy something Fender-ey, that's the problem. Playing-wise these days I either play overdriven Strokes/White Stripes style Indie, or strummy clean Jeff Buckley style with big reverb. I predominantly use a Tele. Mainly house based playing and practising at the mo but am working towards being able to play in public so may be worth planning ahead

I currently have (and pros/cons etc):

Blackstar HT5R 1x12. Pros: has a decent neutral clean channel which seems to take pedals well. FX loop. Seems to be good build quality. Cons: The drive channel is too much and too pedal like (I know that's the idea before anybody shouts!) whereas I think I am preferring a boosted normal amp (Fender style) for OD, and more Fender flavoured cleans as well a la Buckley. In a shop they managed to get a nice twangy Fender tone through one but I've not managed it myself since

Wangs VT15 Head. Big of an unusual one this, and no the brand is not a typo. It's a Chinese amp, I think something to do with one of the companies in the recent Chinese music fx boom (Joyo or Mooer or Belcat or something). Pros: Has a good crunchy sound, great for Stripes style bashing (not fully tried it with cleans yet but has a hi and lo input so that might help). FX Loop. Master volume, can play quiet for home but sounded good up way loud in the shop. Cons: I only have a crappy Vox Lil Night Train cab at the mo (1x10) so not getting the best out of it, so would need a better one. It does seem to get a bit warm as well, but it's the highest wattage valve amp I've owned so that may be normal? Lastly, if it's made by somebody like Joyo, I have a few reservations about its durability

So what I'm considering instead is:

Sell them both, try a Fender Superchamp (though I resent having more stuff than I need on that, could do without the modelling channel I imagine if the clean channel is good?). Either combo or head & Cab depending. Wary of this being a "trade down" though as the Blackstar seems better quality from my limited experience here, any opinions?

Sell the Blackstar, and get a better 1x12 cab for the Wangs

Or either of the above, plus a good Fendery Preamp to plug into the FX loop return? Not sure there is a standalone Fender type pre though?

Or sell both, invest in a PA system and a Guitar Preamp + Cab sim (H&K Red Box?) or multi fx, where I can plug my guitar and mic into so can be self contained for public performance if required.

Get a Blues or Pro Junior and try and get it modded for an FX loop (not sure yet if possible). There's a sweet Red Pro Junior that looks great.

Sell the Wangs, keep the Blackstar, and admit to myself I don't need two amps as not good enough ha ha

Sorry for the essay, but any thoughts on the above if you've not fallen asleep would be awesome. Thanks a bunch!

ecc83 · October 2013

Here's a thought,

Keep the Blackstar and (sometimes!) run the Wangs thru the HT-5's speaker?

Dave.

gubble · October 2013

thecolourbox said:

Sell the Wangs, keep the Blackstar, and admit to myself I don't need two amps as not good enough ha ha

Nope - like guitars you can always have more amps

I've five at the moment and keep lusting after more

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Don't get a blues junior, they're not as nice sounding as a nice champ nor the hot rod deluxe.

Actually, I'd probably point you to one of those...

Other than that, the blackstar is a good amp. It's a sort of, Jack of all trades, almost. Has decent cleans and drive. Not sure if you can do this, but for more natural drive, a home made volume box attenuator with a 50w attenuator wired up to two jacks in a sweet tin (well, that's what mine is) between the amp and speaker would let you run the clean channel louder and get natural drive from that.

Then, you can just crank the gain on the drive channel, get some hot humbuckers and make rawk.

Edit: I'll confess, I like the blackstar tone. Not Marshall, not fender. Something of its own.

Same reason I like peavey. They do a valveking amp, actually, that might suit your wants.

thecolourbox · October 2013

@ecc83 Hmm I did think about the Wangs through the Blackstar but the cable that goes from the Blackstar speaker out to the speaker did not seem long enough to attach to the Wangs, can it be done though despite this? Or do you mean the FX send as line out to the FX return on the Blackstar?

@gubble I know my inner demon thinks I can't have too much stuff, but I do also have a Lil Night Train to sell so currently three amps and only two hands to strum into them with. Ha just totted up 2nd hand values of everything, it's amazing how it stacks up isn't it, I could almost justify a Kemper!

@ThePrettyDamned I've used a Blues Junior before which sounded ok for what I was playing at the time, but not great for the cleaner strummy stuff I agree. And they do seem overpriced for what they are. Would the Hot Rod not be way way too loud for home though? I'd understood the volume goes from 0 to 10 faster than a Ferrari, I play pretty quiet at home which is where the Blackstar scores high. No idea with the attentuator, the clean channel is nice on the blackstar (agree they are excellent amps just not quite the noise I'm after) and takes pedals for drive well, the Bad Monkey in particular goes nicely, just not feeling it as much as I am liking the idea of a Fender! Might just be the idea of one that's tempting though, not the reality so much. Never looked at Peavey, in terms of actual looking (as they aren't pretty most likely) nor in terms of consideration (as not many places by me stock them), I'll have a listen around, thanks

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Don't worry, I'm always the guy that throws in a curveball.

The newest hot rod deluxe amps don't have that issue. Older ones can be fixed with a volume box in the effects loop, and the amp sounds brilliant at low volume

much, much better than the blues junior in my opinion. I really like the drive sounds, though I've only used the older ones. Consensus says the new ones are even better.

Peavey amps are worth a look in, just in case you like them. You might not, though.

Ampmaker do a champ clone kit that's supposed to be dead easy to build if you can solder okay. The champ x2 is a good one, too.

ICBM · October 2013

Here are two thoughts...

Try a different preamp valve in the HT-5R. Dave will most likely not approve

and it might be worth checking with him if there's any possible risk, but if you replace the 12AX7/ECC83 with a 12AT7/ECC81, you will get less gain, a brighter/clearer tone, a slightly brasher overdriven sound - basically more 'Fendery' overall.

Try a different speaker in the HT-5R, probably something more 'American' voiced such as a Jensen (more or less any model), or possibly something with a deeper/brighter 'British' sound such as a Celestion G12H-30.

I'm not a big fan of the modern "Super Champs" - and not just because I'm familiar with the originals and regard these as a very poor relation - but because to me they sound a bit 'sterile' for want of a better word and have at least a couple of known reliability issues.

thecolourbox · October 2013

Thank you all so much as always. I know I can always rely on you guys to assist my GAS

I will look into the changing of stuff inside the Blackstar, though I am now hugely gassing for the Hot Rod Deluxe as I've always liked them but had always been told they'd be far far too loud, if this can be solved i am incredibly tempted to sell everything (or trade in?) to get one of these Deluxe Rods that are hot!!

ICBM · October 2013

A 'volume box' (signal level attenuator) in the FX loop cures the too-loud problem for less than £20.

Try the 12AT7 first though, since if it doesn't do what you want in the HT-5, you can use it to improve the tone of the Hotrod instead

.

Nerine · October 2013

I'd sell everything and pool the cash towards something like a Deluxe Reverb Reissue.
It'd take pedals awesomely, should have enough grunt for when you'd like to gig, has awesome cleans and reverb etc etc. the quality of tone would kick all the others into touch as well.

thecolourbox · October 2013

Hmm i know theyre the best but realistically I'd already be stretching a bit for the Hot Rod, and i think that might be enough for me - will be trying the valve change though first!

Drew_TNBD · October 2013

Seems to me that you're not gonna be legit unless you're playing a Fender!!

thecolourbox · October 2013

You speak the truth Drew

its taken me a few fads of Vox's and others to realise, but really the sounds i enjoy most do seem to emanate from Fender amps, may as well join the club if the valve changey thing doesn't do the trick

ICBM · October 2013

I honestly prefer the Hotrod Deluxe to the Deluxe Reverb, unless you specifically want that Blackface clean reverb sound and tremolo. (Although now the tremolo has been ruined on the DR reissue so even that's debatable.)

The Hotrod is chunkier-sounding, louder, has more flexible EQ, takes pedals better, doesn't mush out at the bottom end when pushed hard, has usable onboard overdrive (really, I can get it to sound OK...) and an FX loop. It's just a better all-round amp... *and* it's a lot cheaper. Tin hat now on

.

Yes, it has a few issues - the reverb isn't as good as the DR's (but still not bad), the taper of the volume controls is annoying (but easy to fix with a volume box, or just get used to turning them by microscopic amounts), they do have a few known reliability issues (although mostly cured now), and the stock speaker is rather unsubtle... but that's about it.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

Wild card alert.

Just remembered trying an Engl Thunder 50. Not a great amp for me, as cleans and drive share an eq. However, it has a really, really nice thick, lush Fender style clean sound that can get driven. The reverb is really nice, too.

The lead channel was nice, and did everything well - crunchy blues, chunky rawk and even (when tightened with a tubescreamer) metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI3VmvzsWK0

Once you get over the guy doing the demo, he does show the tones pretty well. As for affordability, I've seen these go used for £250, though they seem to have become a bit more popular.

No idea about reliability, though. ICBM might be able to comment, but I've never really heard of bad things. Comes with a V30 speaker I think, which is great, but if you wanted, it's easily sold on (very popular speaker) and replace it with a more American voiced one, perhaps an alnico Jensen, and you'll have a cracking sounding amp.

ICBM · October 2013

ThePrettyDamned said:

No idea about reliability, though. ICBM might be able to comment, but I've never really heard of bad things.

They're not as well-built inside as you might expect from the very Germanic exterior, and I've come across a Screamer (basically the same amp, but with slightly different voicing and channel layout) with a blown OT. But not too bad - about on a par with modern Marshalls.

ecc83 · October 2013

"@ecc83 Hmm I did think about the Wangs through the Blackstar but the cable that goes from the Blackstar speaker out to the speaker did not seem long enough to attach to the Wangs, can it be done though despite this? Or do you mean the FX send as line out to the FX return on the Blackstar?"

No, I mean connect the speaker. Yes the lead is too short! Just solder two jack sockets pin for pin and you have a connector. Gaffer tape is optional.

Dave.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2013

ICBM;48767" said:
ThePrettyDamned said:

No idea about reliability, though. ICBM might be able to comment, but I've never really heard of bad things.

They're not as well-built inside as you might expect from the very Germanic exterior, and I've come across a Screamer (basically the same amp, but with slightly different voicing and channel layout) with a blown OT. But not too bad - about on a par with modern Marshalls.

So not terrible. I was rather hoping they'd be up there with other German amps. I suppose you get what you pay for, and the screamer/thunder are the lower end of the German made range.

Still, to op, they sound the balls for cleans

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Another amp musing - Blackstar Vs Fender Vs Wangs (not typo)

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