Power Pins

DiscoStu · January 2015

Anyone tried these out? I think they are a great idea as I loathe changing strings on my acoustic.

http://www.guitarworld.com/files/imagecache/futureus_imagegallery_fullsize/gallery/PP3.jpg

They are a direct replacement for your bridge pins and you restring through the metal plate like you would with a non-thru body bridge on an electric. Super fast and that may be worth the entry fee alone!

If you buy the reviews then they brighten your tone a bit and add sustain, so could be a great upgrade for acoustics. I'm rather tempted.

https://fret12.com/news/those-pins-dont-work-on-your-acoustic

DulcetJones · January 2015

I just came across these online the other day but I have two questions: How much do they cost, and do they really affect tone and sustain? I would have to play a guitar before and after installation to be sure. They do look like a bit of work to initially install but at least it's a one time thing and doesn't require any alterations. Frankly though, I've changed strings for years and years on many acoustic guitars with pins and didn't really have a problem.

ICBM · January 2015

Seems like yet another solution in search of a problem to me.

Restringing a pin bridge is easy if you simply learn how to do it. It's not hard.

Fuzzdog · January 2015

Can't say I've ever found changing strings on an acoustic to be anything remotely like a hassle, particularly if you have one of those handy little bridge pin popper things.

I'd have to try some to be convinced of any tonal change - I've tried bridge pins made of pretty much everything (from cheapo plastic through to brass) over the years and found virtually no difference at all.

Sassafras · January 2015

Besides looking horrible, it's just something else to screw with your tone and a proven design.

As already mentioned, it's not that hard to change strings, in fact it's probably easier with bridge pins than threading strings through a tiny hole.Certainly is with my eyesight.

Sassafras · January 2015

A tip for easier string changing is to chamfer the end of the bridge pin on the grooved side, the string then beds into the bridge slot straight away.

ICBM · January 2015

Or bend the ball end slightly with your thumbnail, making sure the bend is parallel with the flat sides of the ball, then put it in the hole with the bent ball end pointing towards the neck, so the ball acts as a roller and makes sure it goes under the top on the forward side as the pin goes in past it. Sounds complicated but once it becomes routine it's quicker to do than to type this!

Then give the string a good pull to make sure the ball is properly seated and doesn't try to drag the pin out with it and you're good to go with stringing at the other end. Rock solid, no slippage, no tuning issues, no hassle. Why change a proven design that works perfectly?

The only issue is that sometimes it can be difficult to get a stuck pin out, and a lot of people then resort to pliers or other things that damage the bridge or snap the head off the pin. Don't - just put a coin on your fingertip and push the pin out from the inside.

WezV · January 2015

not sure i like he idea of screws inside the body. makes me wonder what potential there is for these to work loose and cause rattles - although i see they use a lock washer to help prevent his - is it enough?

maltingsaudio · January 2015

ICBM said:

Seems like yet another solution in search of a problem to me.

Restringing a pin bridge is easy if you simply learn how to do it. It's not hard.

This^^^^^^ I also enjoy the game of retrieving the pin after its popped out whilst your tuning up!

DiscoStu · January 2015

You see- I sometimes struggle with the pin popping out as the string reaches final tension and it takes numerous attempts until it beds in, which is why these 'quick change' pins appealed. But, it would appear I've been doing it wrong all these years going by ICBM's description!!

I thought you were meant to anchor the ball end at the bottom of the pin itself, not against the underside of the bridge. What a fanny!

ICBM · January 2015

DiscoStu said:
I thought you were meant to anchor the ball end at the bottom of the pin itself, not against the underside of the bridge. What a fanny!

Common mistake, don't torture yourself about it

.

http://www.acousticmasters.com/PinBridgeCaught.jpg

It also explains why many people think you need to fit the pin with a hammer, superglue or other bodges I have had the misfortune to have to remove over the years!

In fact, you barely need any pressure on it at all - its purpose is simply to stop the ball end being able to move back into the hole. If you make sure the ball end is bent in front of the pin it will never pop out as the tension comes on, because it's pushing sideways against the pin and not upward.

BigMonka · January 2015

I'm still scratching my head at what the link in the OP is talking about.

"Those damned bridge pins are a thing of the past! Good riddance to those antiquated foolish pieces of days gone by!"

I've never had a problem with bridge pins, particularly when I realised that you can free a stuck one by pushing the string back down through the hole as it releases the tension.

Rocker · January 2015

Wisdom awarded @ICBM for all your posts on this topic. I use Pinz pins (the six spell my name) and never had a problem removing them. Or the stock pins either. As ICBM said, a solution looking for a problem.

Gagaryn · January 2015

Should be called bell ends. Nobody else will buy them.

Gru · January 2015

ICBM;484361" said:
DiscoStu said:I thought you were meant to anchor the ball end at the bottom of the pin itself, not against the underside of the bridge. What a fanny!

Common mistake, don't torture yourself about it .

http://www.acousticmasters.com/PinBridgeCaught.jpg

It also explains why many people think you need to fit the pin with a hammer, superglue or other bodges I have had the misfortune to have to remove over the years!

In fact, you barely need any pressure on it at all - its purpose is simply to stop the ball end being able to move back into the hole. If you make sure the ball end is bent in front of the pin it will never pop out as the tension comes on, because it's pushing sideways against the pin and not upward.

I am another who had no idea of this, and also feel a bit of a melon, baring in mind I have owned an acoustic for about 20 years.

Tonight I might try to refit my strings, can't believe I had it wrong all these years.

Dave_Mc · January 2015

ICBM said:

DiscoStu said:
I thought you were meant to anchor the ball end at the bottom of the pin itself, not against the underside of the bridge. What a fanny!

Common mistake, don't torture yourself about it .

http://www.acousticmasters.com/PinBridgeCaught.jpg

It also explains why many people think you need to fit the pin with a hammer, superglue or other bodges I have had the misfortune to have to remove over the years!

In fact, you barely need any pressure on it at all - its purpose is simply to stop the ball end being able to move back into the hole. If you make sure the ball end is bent in front of the pin it will never pop out as the tension comes on, because it's pushing sideways against the pin and not upward.

Yeah I did it wrongly when I first got an acoustic too. Then someone posted a link to that pic you have (or something very similar) and that sorted it.

I actually got a little bendy mirror with an LED light on it so I could see for sure if the ball-ends were seated properly. Worked really well.

)

ICBM · January 2015

When I'm restringing a guitar all at once I fit all the strings at the bridge before doing any at the headstock, so I can simply put my hand inside and feel that the ball ends are in the right place which you do just by running your finger along the line of pins, but if you pre-bend the strings it's almost always unnecessary and just a checklist thing.

Dave_Mc · January 2015

I didn't think of that.

) But yeah that would work.

Still now I have a bendy mirror with a light on it. Hours of fun. Well, not so much, I think the battery is dead. But potentially hours of fun.

CloudNine · January 2015

The thought of putting these on a nice acoustic guitar fills me with horror. Apart form looking like a set of new dentures for a Gangsta Rapper, I think it must be messing with the tone of the instrument in a HUGE way.

Looking at the pictures on the website, you would surely be reducing the torque on the saddle and therefore reducing how much you are moving the soundboard. Think about a normal acoustic where that string is anchored under the bridge plate, then running with full contact right through the bridge and back over the saddle. Compared with this just sort of lying flat across the saddle. Massive change to the whole physics of it I would say. Like anything, it obviously needs to be tested in person to be sure.

And no doubt adding that much mass to the bridge area is going to dramatically change the tone as well. Obviously whether for the better is down to the ears of the individual, but I would seriously doubt it would be an improvement. Brighter and thinner would be my guess at the tonal change.

Anyway, regardless of tonal impacts. Hideous, just hideous...

shuikit · January 2015

ICBM said:

DiscoStu said:
I thought you were meant to anchor the ball end at the bottom of the pin itself, not against the underside of the bridge. What a fanny!

Common mistake, don't torture yourself about it .

http://www.acousticmasters.com/PinBridgeCaught.jpg

It also explains why many people think you need to fit the pin with a hammer, superglue or other bodges I have had the misfortune to have to remove over the years!

In fact, you barely need any pressure on it at all - its purpose is simply to stop the ball end being able to move back into the hole. If you make sure the ball end is bent in front of the pin it will never pop out as the tension comes on, because it's pushing sideways against the pin and not upward.

This ^^^^^

I'm really glad when I found a similar diagram and explanation years ago. There's really no need for those bridge puller thingys, which I did used to use... These days I kinda put a very slight bend into the string where I think it will go over the saddle and then hook the ball under the bridge plate using a combination of pulling the string up and lightly pushing the bridge pin in.

I've helped a couple mates change strings on their acoustics in the past, every one so far the bridge pins have been rammed in. One of them actually had bits of paper wrapped around the bridge pins as he could no longer get the pins in tight enough....

ICBM · January 2015

shuikit said:
I've helped a couple mates change strings on their acoustics in the past, every one so far the bridge pins have been rammed in. One of them actually had bits of paper wrapped around the bridge pins as he could no longer get the pins in tight enough....

I have literally come across them superglued in before, that's not an exaggeration. You just have to drill them out.

The other big mistake people make is that once they're jammed in too tight to easy pull out with fingers, to try to lever them out from the top. This will usually result in either chewing up the bridge or breaking the head off the pin, or both - I actually don't like the puller things you get on a string winder since it encourages the idea that this is the right way. OK, if you just need to change one string quickly it can be the only way, but every other time, pushing them out from the inside is far easier and will avoid damage.

It's really much easier than it sounds to hold a coin on your fingertip and use it to push the pin out - you can push really hard, if necessary supporting the outside of the guitar with your other hand so you don't stress the top.

mrleon83 · January 2015

F what I understand, Taylor used a electric style string fitting bridge which was aborted due to damaging the top? Something to do with the pull and pressure?

midlifecrisis · February 2015

I confess to also wrongly fitting with the ball-end at the bottom of the pin, will not correct until I restring next.

am I affecting tone or volume doing it this way?

ICBM · February 2015

mrleon83 said:

F what I understand, Taylor used a electric style string fitting bridge which was aborted due to damaging the top? Something to do with the pull and pressure?

Yes - the twisting force on the top is greater even though the break angle is lower, because the string tension is trying to pull the back of the bridge up. That said some other makers (eg Lowden) have done it that way without apparent problems.

midlifecrisis said:

I confess to also wrongly fitting with the ball-end at the bottom of the pin, will not correct until I restring next.
am I affecting tone or volume doing it this way?

Maybe, but probably not much if so. If the pin is in tight enough that the string tension won't pop it out, it's also in tight enough to transfer the vibration pretty well to the bridge.

You're right not to try to fix it until you restring, since if you do the kink made by the bridge saddle will now be forward of it, cause intonation problems and you'll just have to restring it anyway

. I used to try to save the strings if I found one done like that and they were in good condition, but had to give up.

robwright · February 2015

ICBM is my hero!

I never knew this and every time I string an acoustic, I'm fighting with the pin (which is usually trying to mimic a champagne cork!) whilst trying to keep the string on the tuner! It looks faintly ridiculous!

No, make that absolutely hysterical!

robwright · February 2015

I've given ICBM a wisdom AND a wow!

Now seriously considering offering sexual favours, its been such a revelation!

DiscoStu · February 2015

I was the same, @robwright! I felt just a little bit stupid!

ICBM · February 2015

lol

I'm only the messenger

. That's not my diagram - I just found it online, although it is a very clear and helpful one.

Tune in next time for: how to string a Bigsby

.

(Same sort of issue - a lot of people really struggle with it and come up with all sorts of complicated methods to make it easier, whereas in reality all you really need to do is pre-bend the end of the string, and then it all just falls into place…)

ThorpyFX · February 2015

ICBM said:

lol

I'm only the messenger . That's not my diagram - I just found it online, although it is a very clear and helpful one.

Tune in next time for: how to string a Bigsby .

(Same sort of issue - a lot of people really struggle with it and come up with all sorts of complicated methods to make it easier, whereas in reality all you really need to do is pre-bend the end of the string, and then it all just falls into place…)

well I still like the power pins but that diagram has shown me that I was stringing my acoustic up badly hence why I thought I needed the power pins. Ah well, the pennies are spent now. Lol

ICBM · February 2015

If the Power Pins change the sound in a way you like, then they're a good thing and money well spent. I do think that reducing the string break angle on that particular guitar is a good thing - the saddle is really tall. (That is also not necessarily a bad thing when the guitar is new, since over time you generally have to reduce the height as the soundboard rises, so you don't want to start with it too low or you eventually need to do more drastic surgery.)

I just don't agree with the claim that they improve the string coupling to the top, or that they're actually "easier" to restring - to me that's marketing hype.

There's another type of metal pins I've seen which do it a different way - you thread the string through the pin itself which is hollow, and the ball end goes (I think, from memory) behind the pin inside the guitar instead of in front. I can't remember what they're called - when I first saw them I thought they were another solution looking for a problem as well, but some people like the sound they give so again that may be the true benefit.

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