Modes breakthrough

ftumch · September 2013

I know for most of you the mystery of modes isn't a mystery but for me it's always been something that's been out if my reach. I only recently learnt the other four minor pentatonic shapes which probably explains a lot about my lazy approach to theory. Anyway every so often I go on YouTube scouring for modal videos in the hope that something might click, we'll today it did and I've just jammed along to backing tracks in Lydian Dorian and mixolidian before my iPad battery died. I'm sharing this in the hope that it might help some other poor sod, thanks so much Chappers you've made me so happy, I know this is only the beginning of the journey but at least I'm now on the right road.

viz · September 2013

Congrats! It's a great feeling when you crack modes.

ftumch · September 2013

Thanks Viz I really am well chuffed, the next step I guess us to try and work out how play the right modes over the right chord progressions.

viz · September 2013

Yes and remember whenever you make a mistake, say 4th hypomode of the persian minor scale mate.

ftumch · September 2013

Like it

axisus · September 2013

Modes = mystery.

I shall give this a look when I get time.

close2u · September 2013

imho

if you want to understand what you're doing, rather than learning a trick, learn your scale shapes using the CAGED system

5 moveable and repeating shapes

midiglitch · September 2013

Always satisfying to make a break through-congrats.
I think one of the most enlightening comments about modes was something I read here in another thread; basically "the mode is determined by the chord progression."
It is quite rare that the harmony is sufficiently undefined that we get to choose the mode we want to work in.

I watched the video and the thing I would say is that in his question number one at the end where he says the mode is a dorian but I am soloing at the 7th fret, what do I play? He then counts up the scale to get to e aolian. This works but seems a bit cumbersome.
Personally, to figure the same thing out I'd look for the Am chord shape at the 7th fret and the pentatonic that goes with it and then add the second and sixth to make a full dorian scale.
Ie think in chord shapes first and build the scale onto those as required. Then in the worst case scenario, if you know where your chord tones are then you know where the really safe notes are and everything else is fair game if you resolve accordingly!

close2u · September 2013

yes

what midiglitch is describing is the application of CAGED

frankus · September 2013

Modes are only a mystery if you come from a heavily pentatonic background.

Coming at modes from a pentatonic background is a bit like playing scrabble when you've always got these letters in your hand: A A E O I O O ...

you're all like "but Maw there ain't nuffink ah can do wid dem letters". It's all too whitebread.

The pentatonic scales are there to avoid comparative dreaded scrabble combinations like: Z Q X J B C M - statistically unlikely but a great enough fear that we make a rule to forefend against this angular sound.

The parallel works very well, and here's why: in scrabble you can make a contribution of more value hooking a Q, X or Z onto a few hanging letters than you would inexplicably finding a way of using all of "A A E O I O O" - it's all about note selection and timing - which most guitarists would prefer to avoid by selecting as many notes and playing a stream of even straight 8th notes.

Modes happen when you turn off the auto-pilot and commit to playing two notes at very specific points in a bar - if you don't get the timing right, try again ... or run back to pentatonics - your call

viz · September 2013

Nice description. Given you a wow rather than a wisdom bcoz you're short on wows, but really deserved a wisdom

midiglitch · September 2013

frankus said:

Modes are only a mystery if you come from a heavily pentatonic background.

Coming at modes from a pentatonic background is a bit like playing scrabble when you've always got these letters in your hand: A A E O I O O ...

you're all like "but Maw there ain't nuffink ah can do wid dem letters". It's all too whitebread.

The pentatonic scales are there to avoid comparative dreaded scrabble combinations like: Z Q X J B C M - statistically unlikely but a great enough fear that we make a rule to forefend against this angular sound.

The parallel works very well, and here's why: in scrabble you can make a contribution of more value hooking a Q, X or Z onto a few hanging letters than you would inexplicably finding a way of using all of "A A E O I O O" - it's all about note selection and timing - which most guitarists would prefer to avoid by selecting as many notes and playing a stream of even straight 8th notes.

Modes happen when you turn off the auto-pilot and commit to playing two notes at very specific points in a bar - if you don't get the timing right, try again ... or run back to pentatonics - your call

I'm starting to think that oftentimes committing to one note is all you need. For example in Dorian, assuming you're safety net is the minor pentatonic, commit to the major sixth. The major second that you should also need is sufficiently implied by decades of western music - there is never a major sixth with a minor second in 'normal' scales. (One reason I like the modes of the harmonic minor - much more striking).

Similarly, for Lydian, add the sharp 4 to the major pentatonic and that is enough. The maj 7 is implied.

viz · September 2013

Lovely post - the only proviso is that the big question of whether the simpsons is the Lydian or the Acoustic scale, is because that semi-crucial 7th is absent from the entire tune until the penultimate note.

ftumch · September 2013

frankus said:

Modes are only a mystery if you come from a heavily pentatonic background.

Coming at modes from a pentatonic background is a bit like playing scrabble when you've always got these letters in your hand: A A E O I O O ...

you're all like "but Maw there ain't nuffink ah can do wid dem letters". It's all too whitebread.

The pentatonic scales are there to avoid comparative dreaded scrabble combinations like: Z Q X J B C M - statistically unlikely but a great enough fear that we make a rule to forefend against this angular sound.

The parallel works very well, and here's why: in scrabble you can make a contribution of more value hooking a Q, X or Z onto a few hanging letters than you would inexplicably finding a way of using all of "A A E O I O O" - it's all about note selection and timing - which most guitarists would prefer to avoid by selecting as many notes and playing a stream of even straight 8th notes.

Modes happen when you turn off the auto-pilot and commit to playing two notes at very specific points in a bar - if you don't get the timing right, try again ... or run back to pentatonics - your call

This makes total sense to me, you must be slipping Frankus

I intend to delve further into the theory and hopefully start thinking in intervals (eventually anyway) it's knowing where to start when there's so many holes in my theory to begin with, at the beginning I spose which is a bit daunting.

midiglitch · September 2013

viz said:

Lovely post - the only proviso is that the big question of whether the simpsons is the Lydian or the Acoustic scale, is because that semi-crucial 7th is absent from the entire tune until the penultimate note.

Good chat

viz · September 2013

Ooooh I love a good mode chat I do.

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