Effects with separate wet / dry outputs? - advice please

ChrisMusic · September 2013

What effects have the ability to split the wet and dry outputs, or have a wet only option?

It is a general question about all effect types, but I am particularly interested in delays.

Also can anyone advise what delays have multi-tap option?

Can anyone help please, thanks, Chris

midiglitch · September 2013

Wet/dry main ones that spring to mind are

Boss dd3, dd7, dd20 (maybe others also)

Vox time machine

Sadly the tc flashback doesn't do this though I would have thought a software update could support it.

BenSirAmos · September 2013

Back to the LS-2 again - you can put the effect in one loop, nothing (i.e. dry signal) in the other and mix them to taste or you can go into two amps. This is how I used to use an LS-2 and a 808 to act like a Sparkle Drive (which lets you mix wet and dry together but I don't think it has wet and dry outputs)

ChrisMusic · September 2013

Thanks @midiglitch, I was trying to find a reference on TCs site, your comment explains it's absence. So easy do do, that would be near perfect.

Cheers @BenSirAmos, I appreciate your input, both here and in the other discussion on AB switching too. Yes it's all relevant. Your method allows mixing of wet / dry from effected signal only pedals like O/D, tremolo, etc, now I need to get effect only from some others too. LS-2 is looking interesting in this application.

Do other effects have the ability to separate the wet signal? ie Reverbs etc

BenSirAmos · September 2013

I still don't know what you are trying to do, but if you want a splitter then a DI box probably gives you most options - you can put the effect on the output that goes to your amp and have the dry signal going to the mixer.

Usually, it is mixing the two back together again which can give you problems (which is why the LS-2 is useful) but if they are going to be used for different purposes then a DI box works. Whenever I've recorded guitar, I've always put a mic in front of the speaker but I've used a DI to take dry signal to the recorder so that I can add different effects to that track later.

fretmeister · September 2013

Info about what you want to achieve will help!

ChrisMusic · September 2013

Hey guys, thanks for the responses.

I am trying to discover the creative opportunities that are possible with pedals.

Just playing with ideas at the moment, and seeing what can be achieved within a reasonable budget (whatever that is).

Full studio kit allows you to run complex parallel signal paths if you wish, and send and mix as appropriate. Any of those paths can be sequential efects too. Separation of wet and dry time based effects allows sounds to be built on the different time elements.

I guess I am trying to see how flexible pedals are in achieving some of the same flexibility.

The A/B question mentioned above is really about signal routing and making it stompable, to save the "tap dance", and the LS-2 also allows a bit of very simple mixing.

The wet / dry question is more specifically about being able to process the wet signal separately, whether by EQ or other effects.

It's also about mixing the outputs from different drives / effects too.

You did ask, I was trying to keep the question simple, I was, honest. Thanks for your help with this.

BenSirAmos · September 2013

It still a bit abstract for me - but splitting the signal is relatively simple. I feel your problems will really start when you are trying to mix them back together

Bidley · September 2013

This video gives some cool ideas, not sure if it's what you're looking for though.

Bidley · October 2013

Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs.

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Thanks @Bidley "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

Is it still a current pedal or has it now been superseded, do you know?

I see dry out on the pic of one, I take it that wet out is available too then?

Just added these for reference. (I hope you don't mind me re-posting them here)

@Cirrus posted this in another thread on delays

The DD-20 also has seperate dry/wet ins and outs, I'm going from memory here but I THINK on startup there are options for how you set up the pedal: -10/+4db, and stereo or wet/dry on outputs 1 and 2.

@dogload posted this in another thread on delays

My old Arion DDS1 has a dry/ wet out and I'm pretty sure the Electro Harmonix (Big Box) Delay has a wet and dry (my Electric Mistress Deluxe does). But That's old technology. Don't know about new stuff.

Bidley · October 2013

ChrisMusic said:

Thanks @Bidley "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

Is it still a current pedal or has it now been superseded, do you know?

I see dry out on the pic of one, I take it that wet out is available too then?

It's been discontinued, but they pop up on eBay fairly regularly.

With the wet out, I presume so. I've never used it as such, I'll have a fiddle when I get chance.

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Bidley said:

ChrisMusic said:

Thanks @Bidley "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

With the wet out, I presume so. I've never used it as such, I'll have a fiddle when I get chance.

Thanks @Bidley, if you don't mind I would appreciate that, cheers

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Cool sounds on the video @Bidley, I should have guessed that EHX would be at the cutting edge of making some weird and beautiful stuff accessible. Great sounds on that video, thanks for putting it here.

Yes that is a the sort of thing I'm talking about. Nice to see good use of parallel signal processing. Looks like I may have to explore the EHX range, cheers.

Hey @BenSirAmos, thanks for the reply, yes a bit abstract maybe, the questions are all about being able to explore, so not with an absolute goal in mind, just flexibility.

I want to be able to separate the main signal from the effected signal where possible, so I have the option of processing just the wet output.

If you try to imagine a reverse reverb that you mixed the original signal into it would be chaotic, and pretty dissonant. Reverbs also benefit from being able to adjust the pre-delay, if not part of the reverb pedal then a straight wet delay signal would fulfil that function. Just to give a couple of examples of the wet / dry thing.

I agree bringing parallel paths back together is more complex, there is always the option of what are comparatively cheap rack mount mixers, which would probably do the job if I can't find another solution. Probably a bit overkill though.

Patching it all together is going to get interesting too.

Bidley · October 2013

ChrisMusic said:

Cool sounds on the video @Bidley, I should have guessed that EHX would be at the cutting edge of making some weird and beautiful stuff accessible. Great sounds on that video, thanks for putting it here.
Yes that is a the sort of thing I'm talking about. Nice to see good use of parallel signal processing. Looks like I may have to explore the EHX range, cheers.

By EHX you mean Ibanez, surely

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Hey Bidley, the video you posted was Electro Harmonix pedals, or am I having my nervous breakdown early?

Bidley · October 2013

No, I'm just an idiot!

The Y-splitter thing can be done with any pedal, as far as I know. It's definitely a cool idea though, I'd never thought of using them!

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Bidley said: The Y-splitter thing can be done with any pedal, as far as I know. It's definitely a cool idea though, I'd never thought of using them!

That what I was thinking, those guys know their business, so it must work OK on two pedals, maybe more. It probably works because it is using the low impedance buffered output of the first pedal in the chain going into two high impedance inputs. So it would probably be possible to drive more pedals in parallel split this way from just one properly buffered output.

I was more surprised at seeing the two outputs at the other end driving into a Y connector. I know EHX understand the buffers in their own pedals, but I'm not sure whether it would work OK with mixed manufacturers stuff?

Perhaps @ICBM will cruise past this way and be able to shed some light in this Y connector and in / out impedance issue, and how many pedals it is safe to drive / mix without tone loss or risk to the pedals output buffer. If not then it is a good question so I may even start a discussion on it alone.

mike257 · October 2013

The TC Flashback x4 has a "dry kill" option on a dip switch under the pedal, might work for you!

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Thanks @mike257, I have a great respect for TC stuff, this is really good to know.

I don't suppose you know whether the HOF reverb does that too?

steamabacus · October 2013

As far as I know, the entire toneprint range has the kill dry and true/buffered bypass switching except the vibrato (buffered only)

ChrisMusic · October 2013

That would make sense as the analogue dry through would very easy to interrupt with a dip switch, and TC do pay a lot of attention to detail and musicians needs when designing, not to mention stella sonic abilities. Thanks @steamabacus

ChrisMusic · October 2013

steamabacus said: As far as I know, the entire toneprint range has the kill dry and true/buffered bypass switching except the vibrato (buffered only)

Now I was thinking overnight, (terrible habit I'll try not to do it again)

But if the chorus was dry only, that would give a modulated pitch shift signal, which if it was then fed into one side of a ring modulator, with main signal into the other side, it may well give some interesting metallic but musical variations on the guitar tone. Mix it back in with the original signal in a controlled way, maybe throw some O/D or fuzz into one or both signal paths, before or after, and...

Hmmm might just get interesting. Do I know what this will sound like, well I have a clue, but not really till I try it.

So that is what this thread is all about to me, opening up the building blocks for experimentation.

Delays are the most obvious candidate to start with, but...

steamabacus · October 2013

I think the Toneprint range would really suit you. The downloadable toneprints give a huge variety of sounds available - and, for example, you can download a toneprint for the Flashback delay that turns it into a tri-chorus. On top of that you have the software 'toneprint editor' that allows you to tweak all the parameters in the pedal via usb. At the moment it won't allow you to save the settings to computer (but you can save to the toneprint slot in the pedal itself ..... BUT ..... I received an email from TC Electronic just the other day with news that there is a new version of the editor in beta testing that WILL allow you to save toneprint settings as a computer file.

ChrisMusic · October 2013

Thanks @steamabacus.

I always liked and respected TC, for their outlook and the gear they make, so I think you are right about the Toneprint range suiting me.

Plenty of 'fiddle factor" with the editor, just love that, I'll be in tweaking heaven.

It also keeps the fiddling around with sounds to just the time you actually want to do that, and leaves the pedal to do it's job simply the rest of the time.

Maybe the best of both worlds? And far more parameters to play with than you could put on any sensibly sized pedal too. But they really should get that save facility working, from A/B'ing to creating a library, that's a real oversight. Still better late than never.

I didn't know about getting "a toneprint for the Flashback delay that turns it into a tri-chorus" so thanks for that info too.

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Effects with separate wet / dry outputs? - advice please

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