Buying from Europe

Clingy · September 2013

Hi

No, this is not a question about buying from a "box shifter" in Europe, but I notice that one of the high end amps I am interested in is nigh on £1000 cheaper from Holland or Germany than here. One particular retailer, Haar Guitars, seems to have quite a nice range of boutique type amps. Thought it might be worth a trip over to Utrecht.

Anyone any experience of them or other quality European outfits?

http://www.haarguitars.com/

ESBlonde · September 2013

Looks like a nice road trip that will more than pay for itself. You will need a UK 'kettle' lead which they are not obliged to provide if you collect it.

EricTheWeary · September 2013

You have to be careful you don't end up with an amp you can only play The Final Countdown through.

:-SS

Or, err, have a nice road trip and still have money left over.

impmann · September 2013

Hmmm - Euro voltage is supposed to be the same, but there are differences. Hence why manufacturers supply valve amps to mainland EU with a different tap from the transformer to those in the UK. You may find all you need to do is swap leads over inside, but you may need to tweek the bias to suit.

Some amps are less sensitive to this than others - and it depends on the operating thresholds of circuit. If concerned, get it checked by qualified amp tech when you bring it back to the UK.

octatonic · September 2013

I bought a VHT 2:50:2 from Haar Guitars- it wasn't a completely smooth transaction.

I got it fairly cheap as the guy was no longer dealing with VHT.

After I paid for it he (Erik) said it was missing a fuse holder.

This meant I could only use one half of the power amp until I found a replacement fuse holder.

When I asked him to send me one he said something like 'I don't have one- you'll have to sort it yourself- anyway, you got it cheap'.

I did end up getting a replacement fuse holder from Stormshadow in the UK.

I wouldn't rush to deal with Haar guitars again though.

YMMV.

Clingy · September 2013

There is an outfit in Germany, but it's too far for a day trip and he wants Bank Transfer payment if ordering over the internet, something I would not do.

http://www.proguitar.de/

Thanks octatonic, handy to know that might be his attitude shoudl I decide to purchase an amp in the sale.

Cruz · September 2013

I´ve bought an amp from proguitar.de without any problems. I´ve also purchased from haar guitars. Both were fine, not extraodrinary, just fine (which is good enough for me).

For proguitar i did pay using bank transfer.

For haar he just asked me what local dealer he´d like me to send the package to (i currently live in Ams) and i paid it cash there.

octatonic · September 2013

Clingy said:

Thanks octatonic, handy to know that might be his attitude shoudl I decide to purchase an amp in the sale.

No worries.

It is just one event and maybe he had a bad day but IMHO there are no second chances in this biz.

He came highly recommended so I was a bit surprised by it.

Clingy · October 2013

Looks like the UK dealer has now somehow got wind of people like me noticing the large difference on price and has dropped their price now, so difference is now only £500...mmmmm...still worth buying from Haar.....probably.

FretKing · October 2013

Whats the amp...go on, y'know you want to !

Clingy · October 2013

Matchless HC30 which is a tad OTT for a crappy novice like me...ho hum.

ICBM · October 2013

Be careful with a Matchless. They're already designed to run very hot, and if you get a 220V model and run it at 240V, you'll be pushing it even harder, which may not be good for valve life.

NB, the voltages have *not* been 'harmonised' across Europe - they're the same as they've always been but a bit of 'creative accountancy' with the allowed tolerances has been used to make them all look like 230V. For the vast majority of gear it makes no difference.

FretKing · October 2013

Clingy said:

Matchless HC30 which is a tad OTT for a crappy novice like me...ho hum.

That is a killer amp - I recall spending an hour in Anderton's many years ago trying out

an HC30 & a Clubman, loved them both.

Congrats & hope it works out for you

Clingy · October 2013

ICBM said:

Be careful with a Matchless. They're already designed to run very hot, and if you get a 220V model and run it at 240V, you'll be pushing it even harder, which may not be good for valve life.

NB, the voltages have *not* been 'harmonised' across Europe - they're the same as they've always been but a bit of 'creative accountancy' with the allowed tolerances has been used to make them all look like 230V. For the vast majority of gear it makes no difference.

Right. I have dropped Matchless a note to ask what the differences are between the stock they send to UK and Europe.

Thanks

Clingy · October 2013

No worries they say the models they send to UK and Europe are exactly the same. Nice speedy reply which is more that I can say for Haar Guitars!

ToneControl · October 2013

is it a warehouse? I looked up the address on streetview

https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?oe=&q=3404+LC+IJsselstein&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x47c66499adce0735:0x3f32a70f0a3b01f9,3404+LC+IJsselstein,+The+Netherlands&gl=uk&ei=BD9eUvfzKOnH0QXwsoCICQ&ved=0CIMBELYDMAo

ToneControl · October 2013

According to Wikipedia, refreshing my memory

Following voltage harmonization, electricity supplies within the European Union are now nominally 230 V ± 10% at 50 Hz.^[1] For a transition period (1995–2008), countries that had previously used 220 V changed to a narrower asymmetric tolerance range of 230 V +6% −10% and those (like the UK) that had previously used 240 V changed to 230 V +10% −6%.^[2] No change in voltage is required by either system as both 220 V and 240 V fall within the lower 230 V tolerance bands (230 V ±10%). Some areas of the UK still have 250 volts for legacy reasons, but these also fall within the 10% tolerance band of 230 volts. In practice, this allows countries to continue to supply the same voltage (220 or 240 V), at least until existing supply transformers are replaced. Equipment (with the exception of filament bulbs) used in these countries is designed to accept any voltage within the specified range.

So basically, you still normally get 240v here, and in Europe they usually get 220v

(AFAIK they get huge variation in voltages in some parts of the USA, and we have less trouble here with fluctuations)

What brands of amps supply different taps for 220/240v? I know that back in the day mains transformers had taps for 240, 220, 110, 120, etc. But now, which guitar amp maker sets these differently for mainland Europe compared to here?

ToneControl · October 2013

Clingy said:

Matchless HC30 which is a tad OTT for a crappy novice like me...ho hum.

You don't need to apologise, too many guitarists feel they should not learn on a pro instrument. If you can afford it, it is always better to have pro kit, you can learn quicker and learn how to exploit the extra detail and subtlety that better kit provides. I tolerated budget kit for too long, and my playing has improved considerably since I started buying better stuff.

ICBM · October 2013

ToneControl said:
What brands of amps supply different taps for 220/240v? I know that back in the day mains transformers had taps for 240, 220, 110, 120, etc. But now, which guitar amp maker sets these differently for mainland Europe compared to here?

Some Peaveys and Fenders do, I can't remember which others off the top of my head.

The Peaveys have a 220/240V selector. The Fenders have multiple internal taps for 220, 230 and 240V and come set to 230 - I usually reconnect them for 240 since it's a little less hard on the valves and components.

That said I've never seen any actual damage caused by running them set to 220 or 230V here - it's just a better idea to set them correctly.

ecc83 · October 2013

The voltage thing is a bit of a red fish for a modern amplifier.

If you buy an amp built to sell in a "nominally" 230 volt area it will have the same mains transformer in it be it Scotland or Italy. At least Blackstar amps will!

Said amps will run safely and indefinitely on +10% i.e. 253volts. I know this because I have put most models thru hours of tests at 253 (and 132) mains in at full power and pink noise.

Yes, of course valves will wear out a bit quicker but there should not be any "collateral damage" to other components of a well designed product. Of course again, at 10% under voltage the power out at clipping will be less but then there is no such thing as a free lunch!

And BTW. If you find you local mains is always on the high side, get on the them because the subs have taps.

Dave.

Cirrus · October 2013

It becomes a problem on models that already run hot. You probably remember my thread on music radar back in April about my AC30 which was blowing fuses every few weeks and would go through a quad of EL84s in a couple of months. Doing some voltage measurements inside I found that it really did want 230v (not the 250v it got in central brum). Changing the cathode resistor from 50 to 56 ohms and knocking the incoming voltage down 12v has made a real impact on valve life. My last quad was in for 6 months and still going when I swapped them out (just out of habit since I use the amp quite a lot).

ICBM · October 2013

Matchless run the valves even hotter than Vox, too - I think 18-19W at idle, from the last one I checked. They are very well made, so I doubt any of the other components are at risk, but the valves are at the upper limit - I wouldn't have wanted to run a '220V' model at 240 if there were actually different versions. If there aren't then it doesn't matter.

Clingy · October 2013

Not a lot of joy from Holland and the UK dealer has new stock and been kind enough to give me a tad more discount so I am "settling" for the Avalon 30. Single channel but it has the tones I really wanted.

ToneControl · October 2013

what tones are you after? I am assuming the DC30 tones based on your earlier post about the HC30

Did you only want the left channel on the DC30? The EF86 channel is the magic one for me, and the Avalon does not have it.
Fair enough if it's the left channel you want, and I'm sure it will sound glorious

Anyway, a few opinions from me, I hope these are helpful:

The resale value is a bit of an unknown, compared to a DC30 / HC30, and it's PCB - and I would worry more about PCBs with Matchless since they run hot, but I assume they have over-engineered something to protect the PCB??

You can get a used DC30 combo for £2000 - £2200 at the minute, which would last longer, have the EF86, and be worth the same on resale

Just in case you don't know yet - the DC30 sound is 35% down to the mismatched speakers in the Matchless cab, which they dope to change the tonality a bit. I have not been able to replicate this sound with any other speakers. The 1x12 combo version will not give you this, and buying a 2x12 Matchless cab is pretty expensive. A DC30 combo might be cheaper overall

Clingy · October 2013

I'll let you know as I have just received the Avalon and the ES212 cab. Resale value is an unknown, particularly as the dealer suspects they may be discontinuing the Avalon and at the very least it's going to be a long wait and tricky to get hold of one. I had been looking for a 2nd hand DC/HC30 for some months without luck. The PCB thing is a put off, but hell the amp just sounded fantastic and IMHO better then the HC30...so following my advice to everyone else, I "trusted my ears" over and above what I had read. At the end when I was placing the order I did discuss with the dealer the HC30, but although I could have afforded the extra £1000 thought I'd rather put that towards a new Fender CS. The advantage woudl have been that I would never have had a reason to upgrade.

Thansk for advice and help guys....pics to follow shortly

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