Help - guitar amp/headphones/multifx hum driving me insane

thecolourbox · September 2013

Hi all, wondering if anybody is able to save my sanity (well, the bit of it that's left) as "noise" issues are causing me to rip my hair out and it's rather hampering my ability to enjoy playing.

It's a sort of static sounding hum that seems to not be there right away but sort of rises up to a point then stays there. At low gain it seems to not be too audible while playing but as soon as I stop or even just rests between note buzzz there it is again. This happens with an amp, with my Zoom g3 multi fx, and indeed my Amphones headphones thing I bought recently.

I feel like I've tried everything and I'm getting fed up at it. I've tried a cheap starter Strat, a Squier Tele (even had the pick ups upgraded to mini humbuckers to get rid of the problem, no luck), Ibanez Jet King, Yamaha Pacifica. The only one that it has not happened with is my Line 6 Variax, which unfortunately I've sold.

Amp wise I've had the problem with a no-name practice amp, Vox Lil Night Train, Wangs VT15, Blackstar HT5, Vox Pathfinder, Vox Valvetronix 100w head, Marshall MG15, Orange Micro Terror. I've had it with a Zoom g3, Amphones, and my old dodgy Pod x3 live.

I've tried it in a few different rooms and plug sockets. I've tried straight into the amp, through pedals (touching pedals makes it worse). I've tried through a anti-surge extension lead, with nothing else electrical on in the room. I've turned the wifi off. I've DI'd the guitar and used the line out to the amp. I've used the noise gates on the Zoom but they just mess about with the tone. Today I even bought a ferrite bead thing from Maplin and put it alternately on the guitar lead and the kettle lead. Sadly none of these have made the blindest bit of difference.

It also seems to happen when no guitar is plugged in (though I don't think I'm supposed to do this!)

Is there anything else I can do? Is it potentially me being a "static bearing superhero" as was suggested helpfully in Maplin? I do get a lot of static problems on escalator or metal staircase handrails, car doors, that kind of thing. But it does it when I'm not even touching anything.

I chipped my old cheap strat throwing it on the floor cos it's annoyed me so much =[ What can I do?

ICBM · September 2013

Get another Variax?

Seriously. If that was the only guitar that didn't do it the problem is most likely interference being picked up by the magnetic guitar pickups - the Variax works on a completely different technology.

Does it occur with the guitar volume turned down to zero? If no, it's definitely the guitar. Sometimes noise pickup can be reduced by shielding, but not always or completely.

The interference could be coming from a wide variety of sources, especially if you live in a block of flats - just turning off stuff in your own house might not fix it. Motors, transformers, computer and other power supplies, lights, dimmers, heating controllers, cordless phones, you name it...

thecolourbox · September 2013

Hmm I'll try the volume thing when I go to bed thanks. I live in a semi, back on to a park, shouldn't be too much in the area but who knows

Why would it happen with no guitar plugged in though? It's so frustrating

ICBM · September 2013

Do you mean with no guitar cable plugged into the units, or with a cable but no guitar?

If it makes noise with no guitar cable at all, that sounds like it might be an overall earthing issue. The Variax might have suppressed it by being a low-impedance source - that can sometimes help.

[Deleted User] · September 2013

I had this problem some years ago and the culprit was a dimmer switch.

Have you tried your set-up in another house? If you do and it's okay, the problem is definitely caused by something in your house.

thecolourbox · September 2013

It happens with no cable plugged in to the amp/unit, and I think with a cable plugged in but with no guitar.

Bizarrely my hifi is not affected though by this which may be for a good reason but I don't know.

If I got a Variax DI, would that lower the impedance on my Tele do you think? I have a Tube mic preamp thing that I could also use as a DI but it's only Behringer so probably rubbish. Somebody else on Facebook has suggested a Ground Loop Isolator, a quick google brought up this but I don't think that would help any - though my ignorance means my opinion on this is lacking

Re the Variax, I can't afford a new Variax as the current models are rather steep, not buying any more 2nd hand Line6 as everything I've had 2nd hand arrived broken!

Re playing in another house, no I haven't yet, I'll try to but don't really have anybody to ask but I'll see

thecolourbox · September 2013

Ok I've tried turning the volume knob and it does go quiet, also it does it on battery powered headphones so maybe it is through the guitar, but how the hell is it that I've tried so many different ones and even spent sh*t loads upgrading to humbuckers and it still does it? The only one that hasnt was the Variax but a) it was a faff, b) every item of Line6 I have owned has been faulty in one way another and c) the new ones appear to cost £1k which I can't afford, but I can't play anything the way it is now so I may as well chuck the lot out

Zodiac51 · September 2013

Try it round your mates house, I think you have an earthing problem.

thecolourbox · September 2013

I am trying to find somewhere else to but I don't really have anybody I can call upon, plus even if it does work elsewhere, I still won't be able to play here =[

daveyh · September 2013

thecolourbox said:

I am trying to find somewhere else to but I don't really have anybody I can call upon, plus even if it does work elsewhere, I still won't be able to play here =[

Hire a rehearsal room for a couple of hours

thecolourbox · September 2013

There aren't any in my immediate area, and I have no car to travel into the big mysterious city of Brummachem unfortunately, but sill even if it did work elsewhere I wouldnt be able to play here and that is what is annoying and depressing =[

ICBM · September 2013

If turning the guitar volume down to zero stops it, and it still did it with a battery amp, chances are it's some sort of noise source in the house.

I know this sounds drastic! But since you have the battery amp... try turning the whole house off at the main switch and see if it stops. If it doesn't, it's something you have no control over. If it does, it's then going to become a process of elimination to find the source.

thecolourbox · September 2013

Thanks for your help i do appreciate it. It will be a good few months at least before i get the house to myself to try the mains but try I will. I do still have a few questions though:

would a DI fix it?
if its the guitar, how do i still get the noise with no guitar plugged in?
if its the electricity, why do i still get it on my battery headphone amp?

presumably the last two point to it being some kind of interference but I'm stupid so i don't know

if a DI works i presume I'd have to use xlr out, so thinking id have to get a multifx or preamp with xlr inputs and a power amp and chuck out my now useless amps?

ICBM · September 2013

thecolourbox said:
if its the guitar, how do i still get the noise with no guitar plugged in?

Probably because the amp is also picking up the noise via the input circuitry. But, don't worry about it because it's not the important issue here if it stops when you have a guitar turned down to zero plugged in, or a type of guitar which doesn't pick up the noise. (As proved by the Variax.)

thecolourbox said:
if its the electricity, why do i still get it on my battery headphone amp?

It's definitely something that's affecting the guitar, mainly. If it happens on the headphone amp you at least know that it's not line-borne noise. (ie down the mains cabling.)

thecolourbox said:
presumably the last two point to it being some kind of interference but I'm stupid so i don't know

Yes. But not stupid

.

thecolourbox said:
would a DI fix it?

Probably not, if the main noise is picked up directly by the guitar.

thecolourbox said:
if a DI works i presume I'd have to use xlr out, so thinking id have to get a multifx or preamp with xlr inputs and a power amp and chuck out my now useless amps?

Not necessarily.

You could try a better noise suppressor as the first approach - something like the Boss NS-2 or ISP Decimator, or even the Behringer one, which is cheap and is probably a copy of the Boss (although I haven't tried it).

Quick thing to test - does the noise change or disappear at any point if you stand and turn round slowly with the guitar? That isn't an ideal fix really, but it might at least help identify what and where the noise is.

thecolourbox · September 2013

Hmm all of the above noted, thanks again. It is comforting to know it's probably not the mains, however knowing my luck I'm sure it will end up being something like that where I can do precisely nothing about it. It's a shame the DI wouldn't fix it but I suppose that's due to it being the Variax itself that stopped the problem, not the DI it was going through. I'll try turning around thing too thanks
Everything I've read, been told or heard about all the noise reducer's is that at the volume and gain levels I play at, it just messes with the tone and cuts off the held notes, I think actually I have tried the Boss one and like the Zoom it did get rid of the noise but also it got rid of my playing pretty well too haha

Is there anything I can do to the guitar (a Tele with humbuckers fitted) or a different guitar that might do the trick? I'm pretty settled with the Tele sound especially the neck pup, but could switch if I had to I suppose (though it'd be a big hit to take on the Tele £-wise)

ICBM · September 2013

Definitely try the turning-round-with-the guitar test. If the noise *doesn't* change, it's electrostatic-type interference and more shielding may help; if it *does* change then it's electromagnetic and it won't so there's no point trying.

If I had to make a small bet I would say electromagnetic at this point, since the Variax was immune - it has piezo pickups.

I agree with you about noise gates by the way.

My solution isn't one you'll want to hear...

... get used to the noise and treat it as an integral part of your sound. I'm not kidding, although I do know it will work for some music styles and not others, and for some people and not others.

If it does bother you and you can't get round it, I really do think the solution may be to finance buying another Variax in any way you can - even if it means selling most of your other gear - it sounds like you might be at that point soon anyway.

thecolourbox · September 2013

Yeah I imagine it's the most expensive and impossible-to-do-anything-about problem that wil end up being the cause, usually is.
I can't get used to the noise I've had it since I started playing 8 or 9 years ago and cannot imagine a single application for that kind of buzzing. I could buy another Variax 300 or 500 or something but they look and play like absolute mingers. Obviously I'd love a James Tyler one but even if I sold everything I wouldn't raise that much money =[ oh well, thank you for your help, I think I know which way it's heading

grungebob · September 2013

Could it be your cables? Is your instrument cable shielded?

thecolourbox · September 2013

I have no idea at the moment, but Maplin said to check that. I have used a lot of different cables of varying quaolities and so far my money has been wasted cos it's always the same =[

thecolourbox · September 2013

using this one at present but it's no better or worse than any other:

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/cables_detail.asp?stock=04071412450528

I've tried a ferrite bead on it which was the only thing Maplin mentioned but it made no difference either

Chuffola · September 2013

I've had Variax 300, 500 and 600 over the years and, when properly set up, they all played fine. Not custom shop level, obviously, but similarly to lower end Teles and Strats. Perfectly ok if you're only playing at home.

If it continues to drive you mad, I'd recommend selling or swapping whatever you currently have to get one. Has to be better than not playing at all!

thecolourbox · September 2013

Mmm well every 2nd hand Line 6 item ive had has either been faulty or developed a fault, plus the 300 i had was like playing a bulbous broom aside from its technical issues. Plus I'm not very good anyway and need to get a better hobby, where I'm not wasting hundreds of pounds haha
thank you all though for your kindly offered help

PolarityMan · September 2013

take up drums, no interference problems there

I must have missed it in the thread but how did you eliminate the mains wiring. Sounds like the most likely cause to me.

Id def take your gear to a rehearsal studio and have a try there or even hir out a village hall or something similar if transport's an issue.

thecolourbox · September 2013

After being persuaded by my girlfriend of all people to not give up ive been to a guitar tech today who has offered to test my guitar then shield it internally if it looks like it might help. I'm taking it in tomorrow. Do you fine fellows think this may help? Failing that he has also done Variax transplants though obviously cost is a factor for that

thecolourbox · September 2013

Ooh you posted same time as me. It cant be the mains as the same happens on battery powered units.
if i ever do decide to give up music though i will consider your drumming suggestion!

ICBM · September 2013

thecolourbox said:

After being persuaded by my girlfriend of all people to not give up ive been to a guitar tech today who has offered to test my guitar then shield it internally if it looks like it might help. I'm taking it in tomorrow. Do you fine fellows think this may help? Failing that he has also done Variax transplants though obviously cost is a factor for that

Before you pay for shielding, do the turning-round-with-guitar test. If the noise doesn't change, shielding may help or cure it. If it does, either getting quieter or disappearing when the guitar is in a particular orientation, save your money - shielding won't help because the problem is magnetic field interference, and shielding only helps with electrostatic interference.

My guess would be that it will change - the reason the Variax was immune is probably because it doesn't use magnetic pickups. (Which would also make buying the better Variax with magnetic pickups a bit pointless.) A Variax transplant into a nicer guitar is definitely worth thinking about.

thecolourbox · September 2013

Hi, thanks for your help. Think i misread your comment before. Well i walked all around the house last night with my headphone amp thing and the noise was always there but at different levels depending where i was stood. Never really went away though. Through my amp, the noise does go away enough if i constantly touch something metal on the guitar (strings, knobs), which apparently is me physically grounding the guitar (may have got this wrong). Wouldn't shielding ground the guitar or is it literally just the equivalent of putting a coat on to avoid the cold?
the new Variax is still piezo, but also has proper pickups to use as a normal guitar i think. They said at the repair place today the minimum starting price for a transplant would be £220 for the work, depending on difficulty if the body donor, then I'd have to buy a donor body (£150 for a new Squier, maybe £200 for second hand Mex if lucky?), plus Variax donor, probably another £150 say, so its looking like £600 probably giving them a bit of leeway for labour. Hmm

thecolourbox · September 2013

Oops pressed post rather than new line, fiddly mobile.
or get a 500 or 700 model, but it would have to be local i think as i don't trust line 6 second hand at all, I'd need to get it somewhere i can take it back to if it doesn't work. Been burned with my last Variax and a pod x3 before like that
would have to sell my Tele though in this scenario, also sure what I'd do with the pups if i used it for a transplant. Purely from a money view, if i had to lose the Tele, id get nothing for it compared to the money ive spent on it as its only a squier

ICBM · September 2013

Just stand still, with the headphone amp, and turn round slowly while holding the guitar with the volume control turned up and your hands on the strings. If the noise varies in level - and especially if there is any point where it goes away completely, then the noise is electromagnetic.

If it doesn't change, then it's electrostatic. Given that taking your hand off the guitar makes it worse, it may in fact be electrostatic after all... in which case extra shielding may help. You're not grounding the guitar - your body is acting as a shield and a bit of a 'drain' for the noise. Keeping one hand on the strings at all times is something that old-timers learn to do, by the way! If the solution is as simple as that then there's really no problem with your gear at all, that kind of noise is entirely normal with all standard electric guitars to one degree or another. The Variax does use an entirely different system of sound generation though.

If you're going to get a Variax transplant I would start with a new blank body. No point in having to get rid of a whole lot of stuff you don't need.

thecolourbox · September 2013

I'll try the turning round thing again to make sure, thanks.
keeping my thumb in the string all the time causes all kind of pain though, not sure I'd agree that the amount of noise i get is normal just because its less if i touch the strings. Touching strings interestingly didn't make that much difference if any on the headphone amp, only through the proper amp, which I thought odd. The buzzing through the headphones was painful to my ears and seemed as loud as the guitar tone when strummed it around the house.
Where sells blank bodies? I don't want to have to fanny about finishing one with paint and stuff. I'd use the Pacifica i picked up cheap but I'm not sure if i have a dud or not as it doesn't seem as good an instrument as id heard talk of!

thecolourbox · September 2013

The noise changes when turning 360 degrees, seems to go either and higher or louder and lower.
if anybody wants a squier butterscotch Tele with upgraded pickups, you'll need to be able to catch as I'm about to throw mine out of the window

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Help - guitar amp/headphones/multifx hum driving me insane

Comments