Music To Lyrics

Georgie · November 2014

Ok so I have written 3 songs now and have no idea what to do with them next in so much as putting a harmony, riff, chords etc to them.

I don't know whether to co-write with someone who has experience or whether to battle on by myself. I just don't know what to do first and where to start.

I would appreciate some help.

ThePrettyDamned · November 2014

There are no rules.

Just sing them and see what melody comes out, then fit the chords to them

Or play guitar till you have a cool sounding thing, then write the melody to suit.

Or take the Protest the Hero route and do I Don't Even Know What to match the music to the lyrics...

Georgie · November 2014

Good advice but doesn't help me at all!!

(

Fazer · November 2014

do you mean you have 3 sets of song lyrics (with a melody idea) written but no music?
or you have chords written too? even if basic ones

Georgie · November 2014

Nope I mean I just have lyrics - like a poem written and nothing!!

JAYJO · November 2014

Try fitting I V vi IV Chord prog over it .ie in Cmajor. C G Am F.
It may help. Also try from the vi. ie Am F C G.

Georgie · November 2014

Ok - but won't it sound like a U2 song!!! lol only joking!!! Will try it.

B-)

JAYJO · November 2014

Well if you still havent found what your looking for! Try I IV V.

Snap · November 2014

I sometimes have this. Put the lyrics away, forget about them. Go write some riffs, regardless. Later still, see if any of the lyricvs and riffs can fit, adjust if necessary.

Fazer · November 2014

Georgie said:

Nope I mean I just have lyrics - like a poem written and nothing!!

do you write/play music as well?

MoANjAm · November 2014

I normally have it the other way round...i get loads of riffs and harmonies in my head and I have to crowbar lyrics around them. Having sdaid that you can't just force inspiration....

So....

are there any particular styles you are thinking of?
What vocalists do you like to listen to and how do they create their stuff?
Have you tried breaking them down into single lines and saying them out loud to try and eck out a beat or melody?
What about trying to read them over a drum track or percussion line?
Do you want the lyrics to follow a melody e.g Eagles - Hotel California or to be independant of a melody, e.g early Chili Peppers

EricTheWeary · November 2014

I have written about 2 songs in my life but I am quite interested in the process. My observation is that having a set of lyrics to set to music is the hard way round. Somebody like Elton John famously does it and it's the process for things like musicals but the rock n roll way tends to be the outline music first ( chords,riff) over which you hum a melody and then add words ( although you might have lyrical ideas in mind). I quite liked the idea of the Lyle Lovett approach where he never writes lyrics down, just works on words and melody combined out loud/ in his head until he has something memorable. If it ain't good enough to remember it ain't good enough, being the idea. He then has to find the right key underneath and adjust the chord sequence to fit. Some songwriters also simply just generate a lot of stuff - lot of lyrics, melodies, riffs, chord sequences, etc - and eventually stuff fits together. I quite like the idea of the Nashville style songwriter clubs where you have to write a song each week. Doesn't really matter how good it is, just put something together so you learn about the process. Ideally you get critical feedback but you could do this pretty much by yourself. If you start with a lyric then sing/ hum it until there is a basic melody. What note on the guitar feels right under that? Make that into a chord, which is right major or minor? If you tap a rhythm underneath where does the chord change have to go on each new bar ( if anywhere at all)?Go where you hear it or restrict it to diatonic changes? Those songwriting programmes with Guy Chambers were interesting. He is a pro songwriter but he seems to start with a concept and some parameters - want something anthemic, modern RnB, for that singer - and puts things in place that fit that so it's an elaborate jigsaw of ideas. In those programmes he was collaborating and working to the strengths of the performers. A lot of bands simply jam ideas around as their collaboration. Unsurprisingly many people still stick to well known formulas - 12 bar blues or I VI IV V or what have you ( and most genres have a formula somewhere). That way the musical structure is in place in your head as you write and then it overlaps into arrangement: which key, tempo, chord substitutions, finding an intro/ outro, adding a middle 8,etc, etc. Whilst these aren't inventive they are used a lot - if you are writing in a country style then an awful lot of country is based around well worn changes. IIRC they say they have crazy weather in Nashville so they like their music to be predictable. [ on iPad, no paragraph breaks and had too much caffeine again]. ~O)

JAYJO · November 2014

EricTheWeary said:

I have written about 2 songs in my life but I am quite interested in the process. My observation is that having a set of lyrics to set to music is the hard way round. Somebody like Elton John famously does it and it's the process for things like musicals but the rock n roll way tends to be the outline music first ( chords,riff) over which you hum a melody and then add words ( although you might have lyrical ideas in mind). I quite liked the idea of the Lyle Lovett approach where he never writes lyrics down, just works on words and melody combined out loud/ in his head until he has something memorable. If it ain't good enough to remember it ain't good enough, being the idea. He then has to find the right key underneath and adjust the chord sequence to fit. Some songwriters also simply just generate a lot of stuff - lot of lyrics, melodies, riffs, chord sequences, etc - and eventually stuff fits together. I quite like the idea of the Nashville style songwriter clubs where you have to write a song each week. Doesn't really matter how good it is, just put something together so you learn about the process. Ideally you get critical feedback but you could do this pretty much by yourself. If you start with a lyric then sing/ hum it until there is a basic melody. What note on the guitar feels right under that? Make that into a chord, which is right major or minor? If you tap a rhythm underneath where does the chord change have to go on each new bar ( if anywhere at all)?Go where you hear it or restrict it to diatonic changes? Those songwriting programmes with Guy Chambers were interesting. He is a pro songwriter but he seems to start with a concept and some parameters - want something anthemic, modern RnB, for that singer - and puts things in place that fit that so it's an elaborate jigsaw of ideas. In those programmes he was collaborating and working to the strengths of the performers. A lot of bands simply jam ideas around as their collaboration. Unsurprisingly many people still stick to well known formulas - 12 bar blues or I VI IV V or what have you ( and most genres have a formula somewhere). That way the musical structure is in place in your head as you write and then it overlaps into arrangement: which key, tempo, chord substitutions, finding an intro/ outro, adding a middle 8,etc, etc. Whilst these aren't inventive they are used a lot - if you are writing in a country style then an awful lot of country is based around well worn changes. IIRC they say they have crazy weather in Nashville so they like their music to be predictable. [ on iPad, no paragraph breaks and had too much caffeine again]. ~O)

With a bit of tinkering that could be song no 3!

EricTheWeary · November 2014

When I next get on a PC I'll edit it, honest !

JAYJO · November 2014

EricTheWeary said:

When I next get on a PC I'll edit it, honest !

Nah, its clear enough mate and a good post imo.

spark240 · November 2014

If you are stuck, I think a second person can interpret your words better and maybe put some music to it that you may not have thought of?

You know like the word can conjure up a melody to some people when they read them.

Sort of Elton / Taupin stylee

redrighthand · November 2014

This thread has given me an idea for a Riff of the Month challenge (paging @TTony): someone contributes some lyrics, and the forum are tasked with putting them to music.

TTony · November 2014

Probably more suited to the "main" challenge rather than the riff challenge.

But a good idea (IMHO) @redrighthand.

Whaddya think @Antique_Guitars?

[edit]

And what do you think @Georgie - you could submit a set of lyrics and have a dozen or so different pieces of music composed to fit them. This thread will give you an idea of the diversity of stuff that's written for a challenge.

Antique_Guitars · November 2014

Its probably a bit of a big ask to write a song to lyrics in a month so yeah defo sounds like a good idea for the next FB Challenge :-)

Georgie · November 2014

It does sound like a good idea.

Would you start with the chorus or verse.

please tell me it gets easier once I have done a few!!

I was wondering too if you hear a riff you like from someone else's song how much can you keep it the same without court proceedings lol!!

DesVegas · November 2014

Hi Georgie,

I wouldn't use anyone else's riff, let your own personality come through. My advise would be to record yourself speaking / singing your poem then play guitar over the playback ..

frankus · November 2014

Generally, I end up throwing away any lyrics I write without music, for me it happens at the same time or not at all. Lyrics need music (and frankly music needs lyrics) - there are lyrics that need to dwell and others that need to speed up - playing with time to figure importance is a big part of a song, which a stranger is not going to get in writing tunes for it, maybe just my trust and sharing issues

"I put my story in your limp Brit hands, and you are not going to fail me."

I'd dispassionately kill them, dismember them keep the best bits, in a bank for another time. The lyrics of course. Some thoughts keep occurring to us, some thoughts we have once and then they're lost - those thoughts are sometimes revelationary and good to keep around ... but songs are collections of thoughts gathered by a mood or theme

I find I usually keep the quotes with a rhythmic pattern that'd dictate some structure to a song, other than that I have a notebook of ideas/sentences that are not lyrics but the thoughts behind them.

redrighthand · November 2014

TTony;402824" said:
Probably more suited to the "main" challenge rather than the riff challenge.

.

Ah yes that's the one I meant!

redrighthand · November 2014

In terms of the original post, @Georgie I'd suggest going somewhere where you feel comfortable singing / playing and trying things out (in my case this means somewhere nobody can hear me!) and just start playing around with some chords, and singing over them.

If you are stuck for a chord progression, here's a suggestion: pick a song you know, the more chords the better, write them all down on a piece of paper in front of you, then start playing around with them in a different order. You should quickly end up playing something you like the sound of.

Georgie · November 2014

I decided to go for the chorus and got a melody for it (singing not guitar) but then didn't have anything to record my voice so ended up ringing my Dad's house (I knew he was out) and sang it to his answering machine!!!!!

Once I was safe in the knowledge it was recorded I went to make a celebratory cuppa, so now I assume I play guitar over me singing and build up from there??

I am going to start the other way round from now on although the band love my lyrics so don't want to set fire to them just yet.

Is there an app that I can download on my phone to record voice notes?? My Dad probably won't mind me singing to him although his answering machine is 40 mins away from me!!! (I know!!! I didn't think it through very well!!!!) but if I had of thought it through in the first place I would have come up with a riff before the lyrics - lol

)

imalone · November 2014

Georgie said:

I decided to go for the chorus and got a melody for it (singing not guitar) but then didn't have anything to record my voice so ended up ringing my Dad's house (I knew he was out) and sang it to his answering machine!!!!!
Once I was safe in the knowledge it was recorded I went to make a celebratory cuppa, so now I assume I play guitar over me singing and build up from there??
I am going to start the other way round from now on although the band love my lyrics so don't want to set fire to them just yet.
Is there an app that I can download on my phone to record voice notes?? My Dad probably won't mind me singing to him although his answering machine is 40 mins away from me!!! (I know!!! I didn't think it through very well!!!!) but if I had of thought it through in the first place I would have come up with a riff before the lyrics - lol
)

What's your phone? You might have one already. Though I like this approach, will make a good anecdote if your band ever makes it big.
Was reading up on Pulp the other day, and they'd work up lots of music, gradually weed it down and then Jarvis would typically only write the lyrics for the ones they'd settled on the day before recording http://www.pulpwiki.net/Pulp/CandidaDoylePressCuttings (and this is someone who's had their lyrics published by Faber & Faber).

Georgie · November 2014

Nokia windows phone. Old one.

Don't think there is one but I am due for an upgrade in March so will keep it in mind!

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