Small footprint FX setup - should I go zoom or similar?

Megii · September 2013

Hi, been thinking about my FX setup lately - thing is, I have quite few pedals, some bought back in the late 80's (Ibanez) which might be worth a bob or two, plus various others acquired more recently. They are all basically kicking around more or less unused - I play in a couple of jazz bands, covering various styles from Swing through to bebop and more modern/contemporary stuff occasionally. But I never use any effects other than a smidge of reverb from the amp (usually a Polytone Minibrute), and just a warm clean tone. It works fine, but I do sometimes think it would be nice to have a touch of delay, or some nice lush chorus, perhaps some quality digital reverb, perhaps a fusion-ish overdriven/distorted tone sometimes for the odd solo.

So that's one factor in my thoughts, another is I often play in fairly cramped venues, and don't really have space to spread out with a "mission control" style pedal board in front of me (though that would be fun...). So given my fairly modest FX needs, and the lack of space sometimes, I'm thinking of converting to a small setup - perhaps just a single well chosen distortion pedal (I quite like the look of the Joyo US Dream, or the Mooer Solo Distortion, and then I was looking at the Zoom Multistomp MS70-CDR as a small unit that could provide any modulation, delay, and/or reverb needs. Another option would be the Zoom Multistomp MS-100BT to do everything, including distortion. Or maybe some other small multi FX unit. Really just wondering if I will be happy enough with the sound quality with something like this - I would like the Chorus to be nice and lush/warm sounding for example. Or, would I be better looking at a small pedal board, with say 4 pedals (distortion/overdrive, chorus/modulation, delay, reverb) - Mooer maybe to keep the footprint small.

I must say at the moment I'm leaning towards something like the Zoom Multistomp units, because they do provide a fair bit of additional capability beyond my immediate needs, but it could be handy and fun to play with! Also that would seem to be a very cost effective way to go, and would keep the footprint really small (could even just sit the unit on top of my amp, which might help sometimes). But would really like to know what you guys think on this, cheers!

monquixote · September 2013

A Zoom G3 would probably fit the bill and it does sound very good. There isn't much that compares with it for the price and packing a lot into a small box.

It's also a nice swiss army knife as it can be used as a direct box, looper, drum machine.

I'm not a massive fan of the reverbs, but the modulations and delays are excellent. I don't use the distortions, but plenty of people on here do.

Mine lives on a board with a load of Xotic, Subdecay and CAE pedals so it can't be that bad!

If you don't need a lot of complex sounds then the MS70CDR might do the job.

If you want to go even simpler and you don't need the flexibility then a couple of Mooers might do the job. The chorus for example is great.

As you identified the US Dream is great for liquid fusion lead. There is also a Mooer Riot clone if you want to go tiny small.

Megii · September 2013

Thanks for that mq, I'm looking at the Zoom G3 as we speak, and it does seem a possibility. Could you just elaborate a little on why you aren't that keen on the reverbs? And is this more of a personal preference than a criticism of the actual quality of the reverbs?

I'm just going to add one thing, which is not an essential for me at all lol, but I am a massive fan of Eric Johnson, and love his chorused clean tones especially - can any of the Zoom gear get me into that kind of territory? This really is not one of my main buying criteria though... $:\$ ">

EricTheWeary · September 2013

I think the two things that are often dissapointing on multi fx are the tuner ( not big enough display) and OD/ distortion ( as is such a matter of taste). Sounds like the ms70 plus an OD ( and tuner, if required) might be the way to go.you can then change the OD at some point if you like without having to replace everything and it could be a pretty small set up. You could use the ms70 plus amp reverb for really wet sounds if need be. The only potential downside is the power supply. Everything would work off a standard 9v supply but there is a potential for noise mixing analog and digital off the same supply. But probably not and there are solutions if this happens.a quick Google didn't turn up anyone having this problem with the zoom ( common issue with line 6 digital stuff).

Megii · September 2013

EricTheWeary said:

I think the two things that are often dissapointing on multi fx are the tuner ( not big enough display) and OD/ distortion ( as is such a matter of taste). Sounds like the ms70 plus an OD ( and tuner, if required) might be the way to go.you can then change the OD at some point if you like without having to replace everything and it could be a pretty small set up. You could use the ms70 plus amp reverb for really wet sounds if need be. The only potential downside is the power supply. Everything would work off a standard 9v supply but there is a potential for noise mixing analog and digital off the same supply. But probably not and there are solutions if this happens.a quick Google didn't turn up anyone having this problem with the zoom ( common issue with line 6 digital stuff).

Thanks, much appreciate your comments - the potential issue with the power supply is not something I'd realised about, so good to be made aware. The reverb on my amp I only ever use just to wet the sound a little and stop the guitar sound being too dry. I suppose it is a real spring reverb, but it's nothing great. I would like to use the more spacious kind of sound you can get with some digital reverbs really. But I do like what you're saying - I can have a unit that does all the mod/delay/reverb stuff, and still able to have some fun choosing individual pedals to use for distortion in front of that. I am liking the Mooer Solo Distortion as an option - as mq says, it is a Suhr Riot clone, but seems to have a bit more control with the extra switch, compared to the Joyo US Dream. And if I want to go for a lower gain kind of overdrive, I already have a couple of pedals that might fit the bill there.

mike_l · September 2013

@megii the g3 can put you in the ball park of pretty much any player/sound you can think of. Using it with an external 2way switch (mines the skinny little twins)makes switching between patches easier.

mike_l · September 2013

also, remember to turn the preset settings down as they are all pretty high.

Megii · September 2013

mike_l said:

@megii the g3 can put you in the ball park of pretty much any player/sound you can think of. Using it with an external 2way switch (mines the skinny little twins)makes switching between patches easier.

Cheers for that mike, I will look into the g3 further. Might seem daft, but really I almost think even this unit could be bigger than ideal for me, but it's early days in my research so am certainly not ruling it out. The sound flexibility you speak of is a big draw I must say.

mike_l · September 2013

Megii;38323" said:
mike_l said:

@megii the g3 can put you in the ball park of pretty much any player/sound you can think of. Using it with an external 2way switch (mines the skinny little twins)makes switching between patches easier.

Cheers for that mike, I will look into the g3 further. Might seem daft, but really I almost think even this unit could be bigger than ideal for me, but it's early days in my research so am certainly not ruling it out. The sound flexibility you speak of is a big draw I must say.

mike_l · September 2013

Megii;38323" said:
mike_l said:

@megii the g3 can put you in the ball park of pretty much any player/sound you can think of. Using it with an external 2way switch (mines the skinny little twins)makes switching between patches easier.

Cheers for that mike, I will look into the g3 further. Might seem daft, but really I almost think even this unit could be bigger than ideal for me, but it's early days in my research so am certainly not ruling it out. The sound flexibility you speak of is a big draw I must say.

it, realistically, takes no more room than 3 boss sized pedals.

monquixote · September 2013

Megii said:

Thanks for that mq, I'm looking at the Zoom G3 as we speak, and it does seem a possibility. Could you just elaborate a little on why you aren't that keen on the reverbs? And is this more of a personal preference than a criticism of the actual quality of the reverbs?

To my ear they sounded quite artificial compared to the real spring verb in the Supersonic, or the Nova system I used to have. Tweaking them improved them considerably (by default the mix and decay are set really high and there is loads of predelay), but there are others on here who have them and like the verbs so it might just be me being anal.

EricTheWeary said:

Everything would work off a standard 9v supply but there is a potential for noise mixing analog and digital off the same supply. But probably not and there are solutions if this happens.a quick Google didn't turn up anyone having this problem with the zoom ( common issue with line 6 digital stuff).

I have to run the G3 on a separate PSU as it does make my OD pedals hum and it didn't work with the DIago isolator (even though they claim it does). I do run it off one cable as I have a figure 8 mains y lead.

p90fool · September 2013

mike_l said:

@megii the g3 can put you in the ball park of pretty much any player/sound you can think of. Using it with an external 2way switch (mines the skinny little twins)makes switching between patches easier.

Can you elaborate on your switch? Don't make me google "skinny little twins" lol

mike_l · September 2013

its a bit difficult on the phone. It the g3 photek sold a few weeks ago, and should be in the classifieds. Basically its 2 switches (up and down) which plug into the tiny socket on the back of the g3.

monquixote · September 2013

http://www.vein-tap.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/skinny-little-twins.jpg

p90fool · September 2013

mike_l said:

its a bit difficult on the phone. It the g3 photek sold a few weeks ago, and should be in the classifieds. Basically its 2 switches (up and down) which plug into the tiny socket on the back of the g3.

I don't have a socket, is this a mod, or an updated version? Cheers

mike_l · September 2013

thanks monq, thats the kiddie. Much easier, and it allows patch switching with, one/more f/x to be switchable from the main unit. Ie you can set a sound and have a switchable boost/swirly etc.

Bidley · September 2013

I'm pretty sure that's a mod? The stock G3 only supports tap tempo switches and expression pedals.

mike_l · September 2013

quite possibly, it was like that when i got it. Having tried it into the control in socket too, that didnt work.

Megii · September 2013

Well chaps, you've definitely given me things to think about. It seems that older g3 units only allowed up to 3 simultaneous effects - which seemed a bit limiting to me, but the newer models can do 6, which I would think would be more than I'd ever need. Another plus in the g3's favour would be the extra control over switching between sounds in a live setting - say I wanted to go from an echo-y chorused clean sound for chordal stuff, to an overdriven sound, with less echo for soloing, for example. That would seem to be an advantage over something like the MS70-CDR, which I think can switch up and down between patches, but doesn't have the same foot switch capability. I also note there is the g3x with built in expression pedal - sounds great, if maybe surplus to what I really need, and of course the footprint is starting to get a bit bigger with that. So yes - plenty to think about, I have more thinking and researching to do over the weekend. It is looking possible I will be selling a few pedals on here though...

Megii · September 2013

monquixote said:
To my ear they sounded quite artificial compared to the real spring verb in the Supersonic, or the Nova system I used to have. Tweaking them improved them considerably (by default the mix and decay are set really high and there is loads of predelay), but there are others on here who have them and like the verbs so it might just be me being anal.

Thanks very much for clarifiying that monq - I don't think it's being anal tbh - if your ears can hear something not quite right, I do think that's important. But I will have to try and listen to the reverbs on the zoom gear myself, and make an assessment of how I find it, I guess it is a matter of taste in the end.

monquixote · September 2013

Megii said:

Well chaps, you've definitely given me things to think about. It seems that older g3 units only allowed up to 3 simultaneous effects - which seemed a bit limiting to me, but the newer models can do 6, which I would think would be more than I'd ever need. Another plus in the g3's favour would be the extra control over switching between sounds in a live setting - say I wanted to go from an echo-y chorused clean sound for chordal stuff, to an overdriven sound, with less echo for soloing, for example. That would seem to be an advantage over something like the MS70-CDR, which I think can switch up and down between patches, but doesn't have the same foot switch capability. I also note there is the g3x with built in expression pedal - sounds great, if maybe surplus to what I really need, and of course the footprint is starting to get a bit bigger with that. So yes - plenty to think about, I have more thinking and researching to do over the weekend. It is looking possible I will be selling a few pedals on here though...

All the G3s can do 6 FX the earlier ones just need a firmware upgrade.

I should note the G3 only does up and down patch switching not proper patch switching (there is a thread somewhere with me whinging about it)

Apparently the G5 can do proper patch switching.

Megii · September 2013

Thanks for that extra info monq - tbh this whole world is new to me, I have been existing as some sort of guitar technology luddite for far too long I think. It's a bit of a shame about the restricted patch shifting, but I think the g3 would still be adequate for me - highly unlikely I would need more than 2 patches for any music I was playing. The g5 would be overkill for me I reckon. But at the mo I am being sucked in by the g3 I must say - it does so much more than I need, but dammit, you get so much for your money, it's just too tempting... I really have to decide if I would be happy with the sound quality from such a unit - from what's been said, the likely answer is yes at this point. This thread is not taking me in the direction I thought it might!

A couple of supplementary questions:

If I put a separate distortion/overdrive pedal in front of the g3, would it work fine?

What do people think of the g3x with built in expression pedal - is it worth the extra £20 or so? is the pedal good enough quality to stand up to gigging? Would I be better of just getting a g3, and then can add an external pedal if needed? (OK that's 3 more questions there in fact... )

mike_l · September 2013

@megii what drive pedal are you thinking of? As the g3 does some fantastic drive sounds. Both amp and pedal sims

Megii · September 2013

Cheers mike - I guess I am thinking of one of the Suhr Riot clones - either the Mooer Solo Distortion or the Joyo US Dream. That's not a firm plan though - if I can get all the drive sounds I like from the g3, that would be better really, just a simpler setup. Probably would buy the g3 as a first step anyhow, and then see if I wanted anything else after using it for a while.

monquixote · September 2013

Megii said:
A couple of supplementary questions:
If I put a separate distortion/overdrive pedal in front of the g3, would it work fine?
What do people think of the g3x with built in expression pedal - is it worth the extra £20 or so? is the pedal good enough quality to stand up to gigging? Would I be better of just getting a g3, and then can add an external pedal if needed? (OK that's 3 more questions there in fact... )

The answer to the first question is "It depends" I run a board likey this:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b197/monquixote/IMAG0017_zpscdd8f2f9.jpg

With a couple of drives running into the G3 all in front of the amp and it sounds great.

What I have discovered is that if you put conventional pedals in front of the amp sims in the G3 then they sound really fizzy so if you are going to use the amp sims (I don't) then you are better off using the digital drive pedals in the G3.

As far as the second question goes, I have an instinctive distrust of FX with built in expression pedals so it didn't appeal to me, but I believe someone on here (Koneguitarist?) gigs one and is happy.

As regards the sound quality. I believe P90Fool gigs with just a G3 and plays some fairly big stages.

Megii · September 2013

Thanks mq - you are doing well for wisdoms from me but have another one for that - that's bloody useful stuff to know about. Anyways, I'm still really liking the idea of the G3 - I think very probably it would be sans expression pedal in my case - can always add if desired, and then have the option of leaving it out and a smaller footprint. Is that the Mooer Chorus on there btw? - and does that mean you're not too keen on the G3's chorus sounds? Your pedalboard looks great to me, but that is the sort of setup I just won't have the space for - my fault for choosing to play jazz, hence having to fit things into small venues... Or not being Pat Metheny possibly

Kebabkid · September 2013

As you're leaning toward the Zoom Multistomp - good pedal, owned one for a few months and was sold as surplus to requirements - I've just seen that Korg have a brought out a Pandora Stomp and it looks more or less the size as their Pitchblack tuners. It can do all sorts but I don't know what the quality of the sounds are like or if it's easy to use.

Megii · September 2013

Kebabkid said:

As you're leaning toward the Zoom Multistomp - good pedal, owned one for a few months and was sold as surplus to requirements - I've just seen that Korg have a brought out a Pandora Stomp and it looks more or less the size as their Pitchblack tuners. It can do all sorts but I don't know what the quality of the sounds are like or if it's easy to use.

Will look into that, cheers Kebabkid!

Megii · September 2013

Just thought of another g3 question, sorreee... but:

The g3 can have up to 6 effects at a time, is it possible to have a couple of delays running in the same patch? Going further, could I have a patch with reverb, a couple of delays, and chorus say? (Eric Johnson... )

monquixote · September 2013

Megii said:

Is that the Mooer Chorus on there btw? - and does that mean you're not too keen on the G3's chorus sounds? Your pedalboard looks great to me, but that is the sort of setup I just won't have the space for - my fault for choosing to play jazz, hence having to fit things into small venues... Or not being Pat Metheny possibly

It is indeed the Mooer chorus. I have it on there mostly because it fits and more pedals is obviously better

In all seriousness I think the Chorus is one of the Zooms strong points (I actually like it more than the chorus on the Nova Mod I used to have). The reason I've got it on there is because I really like to focus on performing/remembering the chords when I'm on stage so I don't like anything to be complicated like switching between banks meaning that I know exactly where an effect is without really having to look at anything (when playing festivals you can't rely on knowing what mode you are in because you often can't even see the LEDs).

As a result I have the three pedals on screen set to Trem, Analog Delay and a Wonky Modulated delay and use the Mooer for chorus. I could just as easily have a Mooer Trem, or Delay pedal and do the same thing.

As far as modulation goes.

The trem and slicer are very good
The chorus is good and there are several different types
The flanger is decent (I don't really use it so I'm not a great judge)
The vibrato is great
The Phaser is OK, but I can never quite get what I want out of it (probably just me)
The filters & auto wahs are good.
The octaver and harmoniser type things are OK, but nowhere near as good as a POG.
The Delays are brilliant and there are loads of them. I'd almost advocate people buying it as an alternative to the DL4 or Flashback X4

This demo is just a G3 straight into the desk via a Fender model which lets you hear some trem sounds and the amp sims and reverb. It's all live one take stuff so there isn't much production other than the Zoom.

Megii · September 2013

Liking those tracks! Really it's a big vote for the g3 that it works for real world gigging guitarists. A huge plus that the chorus is good for me too, I think that's a key effect for me. Similar re the delays - just asking but is it possible to have 2 delays simultaneously?

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Small footprint FX setup - should I go zoom or similar?

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