Gig rig - loud enough? What Wattage?

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Hello people -

Before COVID hit I was in a reasonably busy ska band - we gigged plenty and there were some talented musicians in the band which was handy as it covered up for the severely average guitar player (me lol)

Sadly COVID (and other setbacks) bought us to a halt.....but now we''re putting it back together..... one guitar player, keys and 3 horns (plus, bass drums and singer obvs)

I also moved and ditched quite a bit of gear - I didn't think I'd be gigging again..... but now I find myself needing to put together gear to gig.....I have two teles, a nice on and a basic spec Mexican that I really love (it was the first 'make' guitar I got and I love the neck)

So covered for guitars..... I need an amp and maybe some pedals.....I play 99% of the set clean and use an Xotic Ep for a clean boost for for lead melody lines and a TC Electronic Mojomojo for a bit of boost/gain for occasional solos....I use a bit of modulation (a chorus, phaser and wha wha) I have a Boss DD7 for dubby echo's etc.... I sold my Fender Blues Deluxe so I need a new amp....Any recommendations?

Wish list is -
Clear resonant clean tone
Enough volume to come through keys and horns in practice when we won't use PA - also the amp will probably be my onstage monitor as well - can DI or mic for gigs if needed.
Onboard effects not essentialI a nice reverb would be a pleasant bonus though not essential - if it could be knocked on and off by a foot switch even better - but again not essential.
I know this offends some people but I am not sure I need a valve amp in the circumstances - I do like that clean fender tone... but if there is a better/lighter option I am open to suggestions....
I like to pay around £500 - second hand market is fine
Be nice if I can DI into a DAW/interface that'd be a bonus - but not essential - I have mic if needed
Solid state what sort of Wattage is needed for practice and gigs without using PA? If it didn't way a tone that'd be great - but again a

I was looking at the Roland Jazz Chorus range - not sure what wattage will get me the volume/eq I need to cut through - any other valve or solid state ideas welcome - or if a. pedal makes something work? any ideas gratefully received....I have a 100w fender champion at the moment - it's quite for practice and the tone is a little flat....Sorry to go on

thanks

fretmeister · October 2023

Do you not want to get another Blues Deluxe?

ChrisCox1994 · October 2023

tone master twin reverb

its slightly over budget, but theres one on ebay right now for 695 or best offer

very light, very loud and clear, perfect ska amp in my opinion

ICBM · October 2023

I would say 100W minimum for that job if not valve. If you can afford it, a Fender Tonemaster Twin Reverb is probably the answer, but I suspect they're still out of your price range even second hand.

Budget option - replace the speakers in the Champion 100 with a pair of Jensen Tornado Classics or Eminence Li'l Texas - lighter, louder, and better-sounding (and less prone to failing) than the stock speakers.

PAL · October 2023

Boss Katana 100 would work.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Thank you @ChrisCox1994 @ICBM @PAL ;

100w seems the consensus volume wise for a solid state amp......I've heard good things about Boss Katana and I think I could probably try that in a shop too......or maybe the blues cube?

Two mentions for a Fender Tonemaster - never heard of that so will have a look.....

And yes @fretmeister - I would have another Blues Deluxe. I often felt that I wasn't a good enough guitar player to have such a fine amp. I can't claim to be a great blues guitar player on the hunt for that elusive 'break up' tone..... but I really enjoyed playing with that amp - I was heavy and would get very hot by the end of the gig - but it always worked for me and sounded great. It was certainly loud enough..... could really have done one with half the power, size. and weight lol....

Musicman20 · October 2023

The Katana 100 is surprisingly good as a giggIng amp!

ICBM · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

And yes @fretmeister - I would have another Blues Deluxe. I often felt that I wasn't a good enough guitar player to have such a fine amp. I can't claim to be a great blues guitar player on the hunt for that elusive 'break up' tone..... but I really enjoyed playing with that amp - I was heavy and would get very hot by the end of the gig - but it always worked for me and sounded great.

Don’t ever think that you’re not a good enough player for a good amp.

If you do get another one, have the transformer voltage reset from the supplied EU standard 230V to the correct UK 240V - that will make the amp run noticeably cooler, as well as slightly increasing the clean headroom and reducing the midrange. It’s very easy to do, literally just swapping two push-connectors on the circuit board, you can do it yourself if you’re handy with very basic tools.

A lighter neodymium speaker would also help very slightly with the weight.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

ICBM said:

Placidcasual79 said:

And yes @fretmeister - I would have another Blues Deluxe. I often felt that I wasn't a good enough guitar player to have such a fine amp. I can't claim to be a great blues guitar player on the hunt for that elusive 'break up' tone..... but I really enjoyed playing with that amp - I was heavy and would get very hot by the end of the gig - but it always worked for me and sounded great.

Don’t ever think that you’re not a good enough player for a good amp.

If you do get another one, have the transformer voltage reset from the supplied EU standard 230V to the correct UK 240V - that will make the amp run noticeably cooler, as well as slightly increasing the clean headroom and reducing the midrange. It’s very easy to do, literally just swapping two push-connectors on the circuit board, you can do it yourself if you’re handy with very basic tools.

A lighter neodymium speaker would also help very slightly with the weight.

thanks @ICBM - that's great advice. I loved my blues deluxe - it would often get very warm - but on some. longer gigs it'd get almost too hot to touch - it always sounded. good then though lol..... the weight was a big issue (I have a bad back) so making it lighter would be a great help.....

Appreciated

Reverend · October 2023

was watching some Madness thing on sky arts the other day and there was an HH combo being used in rehearsal. I think they are old enough to be vintage classics now.

stickyfiddle · October 2023

I echo the above. The Blues Deluxe is just as good an amp as it ever was, and you're never "not good enough" for any amp in the sub-bonkers level ranges (i.e. Dumbles etc) imo - a good amp will make you play better.

I'm also a big fan of the Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb. Obviously not as loud as the Twin version but smaller & lighter and just as easy to DI to the PA, which is 99% how you'll want to use it anyway. Mine is loud enough that I get told to turn down in the rehearsal studio and that's with the attenuation at halfway!

And it's stupidly light, which is wonderful. If I have to I can fairly happily carry the TMDR and Gibson in hardcase in my hands, with a mono electric case and pedaboard (Classic Jr in soft case) over each shoulder

ICBM · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

the weight was a big issue (I have a bad back) so making it lighter would be a great help.....

Unfortunately a neo speaker will only reduce it by three or four pounds - you can feel the difference, but it doesn’t make it a ‘light’ amp… still just over 40lb.

The remarkable thing is that the Tonemaster Twin is lighter, despite having two speakers - amazingly, just 33lb. If the Tonemaster Deluxe would be loud enough it’s only 23lb… it’s rated at 100W, although that’s really to give it the headroom to simulate a 22W valve amp. (The Twin is 200W simulating 85W, although probably not expected to be overdriven!)

EricTheWeary · October 2023

You’d think that after seventy odd years of rock music there would be a simple answer to this!

Just looking at the Tonemaster combos they tick a lot of boxes here. I also wondered about the Deluxe Reverb version which is also slightly cheaper than the Twin. Not massive clean headroom maybe but it's still 100 watts (pretending to be 22 valve watts) and maybe more of a digital cousin of the Blues Deluxe than a Twin would be?

Sixties ska would have been small valve combos, the amp of choice of 2 Tone was a Vox AC30 so sonically (in my head anyway) it's often more about cutting through the mix than ambient landscapes and needing massive headroom.

Reverend said:

was watching some Madness thing on sky arts the other day and there was an HH combo being used in rehearsal. I think they are old enough to be vintage classics now.

He generally uses Marshalls these days although I think the Sky Arts show was the band recreating an early set so the HH fits. Live footage of the 2Tone era was all sorts of amps, I guess whatever was available and worked on the day.

rsvmark · October 2023

Disgraceful plug. I have a 60w Marshall head and 4x10 cab for sale that fits budget and does everything you want Inc a di out the back. Does cleans better than ‘Marshall’ so might work for you?

HAL9000 · October 2023

I’ve recently taken delivery of an Award-Session 5E3-Extra which I reckon could fit the bill for a clean (but not jazz clean) amp. ‘Only’ 22 solid-state Watts but surprisingly loud. Great warm cleans and even turned up never gets too impolite. Takes pedals well. Mine’s the most basic version (no DI or reverb). However a bit more cash would get you those. I’m been well pleased with my purchase.

Reverend · October 2023

would it be worth looking at getting a separate
smaller cab and something like a quilter?

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Reverend said:

would it be worth looking at getting a separate
smaller cab and something like a quilter?

I have to make an embarrassing confession here @Reverend - I have never used a cab and head - ever! I am not a total noob, I have gigged regularly for years - but only pubs, clubs and small festivals.... never any thing bigger. So I have no experience with a cab and head..... I am likely displaying my naivety/stupidity but I've always associated them with higher gain, higher volume and I play pretty clean..... I don't know what the advantages of using a cab and head are and worse of all I don't even know what a quilter is..... can you school me?

andy1839 · October 2023

Aww its a shame you're not closer, you could have had my RocPro 1000 for free!

The clean channel is really quite good for a SS amp.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

andy1839 said:

Aww its a shame you're not closer, you could have had my RocPro 1000 for free!

The clean channel is really quite good for a SS amp.

Say the word @andy1839 and I'll start walking lol...... If the amp gets heavy on the 250 mile plus walk home I can put it down to sit on it and rest.... genius. If it starts to rain I can hold it over my head to block the water... if the weather gets really hot I'll turn the amp the other way so the open side faces the rain over my head and use it to catch water - then I can take a drink and carry on walking.... if I get tired I can lay the amp flat and use it as a pillow..... if someone attacks me on my long journey I can swing the amp at the and use it as a weapon......

Now I know what you're thinking Andy - you can tell the amp would be going to a good home..... thats right....

Dan_Halen · October 2023

I played with a 10 piece Ska band for years and still do on occasion and worked my way through loads of different amps. Would absolutely go for a Tonemaster Twin if I was going to do it regularly again. I occasionally used a valve Twin of various incarnations when backline was provided and that always nailed 'that sound'. I'd of bought one but no way I'd want to lug one to gigs.

The DeVille was also great but heavy. Hot Rod Deluxe didn't cut it for me: I could live with it but just didn't have the wallop of the DeVille or especially the Twin. Used a bunch of Mesas which were all good and a Mesa Transatlantic for a few years too and that was superb.

The guy who took over when I left that band (although I stil dep for them) uses a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and I was pretty astonished with how loud it was. He sits it on a flight case so it's well off the floor and you can really hear it, and it sounds fantastic with the band. Sounds much better in the room with some volume than it does on YouTube demos.

Placidcasual79 · October 2023

Dan_Halen said:

I played with a 10 piece Ska band for years and still do on occasion and worked my way through loads of different amps. Would absolutely go for a Tonemaster Twin if I was going to do it regularly again. I occasionally used a valve Twin of various incarnations when backline was provided and that always nailed 'that sound'. I'd of bought one but no way I'd want to lug one to gigs.

The DeVille was also great but heavy. Hot Rod Deluxe didn't cut it for me: I could live with it but just didn't have the wallop of the DeVille or especially the Twin. Used a bunch of Mesas which were all good and a Mesa Transatlantic for a few years too and that was superb.

The guy who took over when I left that band (although I stil dep for them) uses a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and I was pretty astonished with how loud it was. He sits it on a flight case so it's well off the floor and you can really hear it, and it sounds fantastic with the band. Sounds much better in the room with some volume than it does on YouTube demos.

thanks @Dan_Halen (great name btw)..... before I started this thread I'd never heard of the Tonemaster. In fact I am pretty sure they didn't exist when I was last amp shopping 10 years ago..... I've had some great advice on here (on all sorts of things - since I first started playing guitar with a live band) so I think I am going to at least go to a shop and demo a Tonemaster......

If you don't mind me asking Dan - what sort of ska did you play? Did you do Jamaican ska? The second wave British stuff or the third wave American ska? I am into roots and dub - but enjoy Jamaican ska and some of the British 2tone bands - which is mostly what we cover...... I don't know a lot about the America 3rd wave stuff......

I am guessing you had a horn section and keys? Did you have two guitars? What were the songs that went down well? I think one of the things we'd like to do this time round is do some none ska songs in a ska style

Lebarque · October 2023

Another vote for Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb.

Dan_Halen · October 2023

Placidcasual79 said:

Dan_Halen said:

I played with a 10 piece Ska band for years and still do on occasion and worked my way through loads of different amps. Would absolutely go for a Tonemaster Twin if I was going to do it regularly again. I occasionally used a valve Twin of various incarnations when backline was provided and that always nailed 'that sound'. I'd of bought one but no way I'd want to lug one to gigs.

The DeVille was also great but heavy. Hot Rod Deluxe didn't cut it for me: I could live with it but just didn't have the wallop of the DeVille or especially the Twin. Used a bunch of Mesas which were all good and a Mesa Transatlantic for a few years too and that was superb.

The guy who took over when I left that band (although I stil dep for them) uses a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and I was pretty astonished with how loud it was. He sits it on a flight case so it's well off the floor and you can really hear it, and it sounds fantastic with the band. Sounds much better in the room with some volume than it does on YouTube demos.

thanks @Dan_Halen (great name btw)..... before I started this thread I'd never heard of the Tonemaster. In fact I am pretty sure they didn't exist when I was last amp shopping 10 years ago..... I've had some great advice on here (on all sorts of things - since I first started playing guitar with a live band) so I think I am going to at least go to a shop and demo a Tonemaster......

If you don't mind me asking Dan - what sort of ska did you play? Did you do Jamaican ska? The second wave British stuff or the third wave American ska? I am into roots and dub - but enjoy Jamaican ska and some of the British 2tone bands - which is mostly what we cover...... I don't know a lot about the America 3rd wave stuff......

I am guessing you had a horn section and keys? Did you have two guitars? What were the songs that went down well? I think one of the things we'd like to do this time round is do some none ska songs in a ska style

No worries. We do the odd cover of Toots, Desmond Dekker et al, but mainly the second wave and two tone stuff - The Specials, Bad Manners, the Beat, Madness etc. and started nearly 25 years ago back when no one else was really covering that stuff (apart from the bands themselves of course

). That band is 3 piece brass, guitar, bass, drums, keys and 3 singers. To be honest, you've kind of got to play the hits as they're almost expected so can't really get away from Nightboat, One Step Beyond, Pressure Drop, Gangsters, Nite Klub, Lip-up Fatty... basically the contents of a 'Greatest Ska Hits' CD. However, you can sprinkle the odd more interesting tune here and there.

I'm also in a band that does some Ska and punk tunes as well as some ska/punk covers of well know tunes and they all go down pretty well. It's 2 guitars with that plus keys and a sax player. Covering stuff people know but putting a punk/ska take on it is a pretty easy win because it's high energy and people know the words already. I like a lot of the 3rd wave stuff like Reel Big Fish so enjoy those gigs.

I did play in a reggae band for a bit too but that was on sax. Did enjoy it but the ska/punk gigs get better crowds and enjoy the energy of it.

p90fool · October 2023

PAL said:

Boss Katana 100 would work.

But nowhere near as loud as an 80w Bandit.

Trude · October 2023

I have a Roland JC40 I'm thinking of letting go. It is massively loud and clean, so should do what you need. Message me if you want to discuss!

Pabcrane · October 2023

I haven't played the 100 or 120 watt version but the Orange solid state Crush series are pretty good sounding. I imagine that 100/120 watts solid state would be enough for some cleans. Maybe someone who has one of these could chime in?

EricTheWeary · October 2023

Pabcrane said: I haven't played the 100 or 120 watt version but the Orange solid state Crush series are pretty good sounding. I imagine that 100/120 watts solid state would be enough for some cleans. Maybe someone who has one of these could chime in?

@Grunfeld if memory serves.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Gig rig - loud enough? What Wattage?

Comments