Recommendations for effects / amp switching unit

andyg_prs · October 2023

Long story short(ish), I've used Kemper, Fractal (AX8 - still have it) and other much older tech years ago.....Kemper was great for a specific prog rock band but had quirks that finally had me sell it once the band disbanded (excuse the pun)....AX8 is still for indoor practice and for a country band (at the moment).

My main gigging set up is an Engl Ironball (original not SE) with a CaptorX to deal with the apparent inabilty of most soundmen to mic a cab properly.....and a pedalboard at the end or a pedalsnake

with an ES-5 that lets me switch channels and layer either a Keeley DS-1 for a hair of gain, a CM Plexitone for higher gain, or switch to the Engl high gain channel for modern high gain.

I also currently use a midi connection to change the CaptorX settings for lead.

The pedalboard is where most things can go wrong....eventally patch leads or even pedal sockets go faulty and re-routing stuff is a pain.

I was wondering about a unit that could do most of my effects, and switch channels on my amp....and even allow me a couple of loops for my overdrive pedals. Something like an MS-3 perhaps.

So, what are your experiences recommendations for this......I was wondering if this might bridge the gap between full modeller and full 'traditional' set up.....giving me a smaller pedalboard with less chance of failure and easier routing options....

Price is definitely a factor here.....if I were going to pay hundreds then I might as well try one of the latest and greatest modellers, FM9 etc...

Thanks,
Andy

TheBigDipper · October 2023

I'm also using an ES-5. I've got too many physically big pedals and wanted to reduce that a bit. Someone here suggested an MS-3. And I thought it looked a decent shout for me until I realised it didn't support carryover. I like to hear my reverb trails continue after switching presets. And although the three loops can be moved about the signal chain as one entity, you can't split them or change their order. But even so....

Currently now revisiting the idea of a GT-1000 CORE as an expensive alternative MFX. I've owned GT tech before and like their mod/delay/reverb effects.

sweepy · October 2023

Gigrig G3 Atom, you won’t regret it

andyg_prs · October 2023

sweepy said:

Gigrig G3 Atom, you won’t regret it

I'm sure it's an amazing unit....but....it doesn't achieve what I was talking about - reducing the complexity of my board by having fewer effects (the unit itself providing onboard effects).....and it costs £859......and at that price, I could try an FM9 secondhand (going pure modeller).....or something like an Engl Ironball SE with delay/noisegate/reverb/boost/midi control/IR loader all onboard.

vasselmeyer · October 2023

The MS-3 can do all of that including amp switching by CTRL or midi. If you stay on one patch it's fine, but if you switch patches the delay and reverb don't get trails. However, if you use the ASSIGN control, you can adjust the parameters of each of those effects on the fly.

I think it's a brilliant little bit of kit, and I carry one as backup with a Zoom Multistomp for my GT-1000.

andyg_prs · October 2023

vasselmeyer said:

The MS-3 can do all of that including amp switching by CTRL or midi. If you stay on one patch it's fine, but if you switch patches the delay and reverb don't get trails. However, if you use the ASSIGN control, you can adjust the parameters of each of those effects on the fly.

I think it's a brilliant little bit of kit, and I carry one as backup with a Zoom Multistomp for my GT-1000.

Cool - I'm hoping some of my experience with the ES-5 would be useful for me...if I went for it.

The trails would be nice...but tbh....in the context of playing out live with my noisy old band, I can't see it being a big issue. With my DD7 I use an expression pedal to vary the intensity / number of repeats. Do you know if you can assign a controller to do that with the onboard delay?

And how do you rate the effects? I like my analogue drives....but I've read really varied opinions on how good the drives are in the MS-3.

Thanks

vasselmeyer · October 2023

I was very familiar with the MS-3 as I had an ES-8 based board prior to getting my GT-1000. You can assign the treadle position on an expression pedal to change between a couple of values so could change the mix and the repeat values of a delay quite easily.

andyg_prs · October 2023

vasselmeyer said:

I was very familiar with the MS-3 as I had an ES-8 based board prior to getting my GT-1000. You can assign the treadle position on an expression pedal to change between a couple of values so could change the mix and the repeat values of a delay quite easily.

Cool. How do you find the on board drives? I've put a WTB advert up already

vasselmeyer · October 2023

andyg_prs said:

vasselmeyer said:

I was very familiar with the MS-3 as I had an ES-8 based board prior to getting my GT-1000. You can assign the treadle position on an expression pedal to change between a couple of values so could change the mix and the repeat values of a delay quite easily.

Cool. How do you find the on board drives? I've put a WTB advert up already

Somewhere between acceptable and meh... I quite like the "natural" and "crunch" sounds and the TS9 isn't bad. There are two options if I were to base a board and a real amp around it...

Option 1 is that I'd use three pedals in the loops. A fuzz (my Magnetic Effect White Atom) and a crunch (either my Guv'nor or my Dirty Little Secret) and then something like a Klon for a boost or I'd use the CTRL to switch the boost on the amp.

Because it's so compact and I can get it on a Pedaltrain Nano if I don't use external pedals, I'd probably look at the second option which would be to use some of the built in drives. The problem with them is that the only tone-shaping is the TONE setting which isn't quite good enough. If I did that then I'd use the ASSIGN function to have one switch turn the drive and an EQ block on at the same time and use the EQ block to do fine-tuning of the drive EQ.

Like the ES switchers, the CURNUM and ASSIGN features are the key to getting it to do what you want.

CarpeDiem · October 2023

andyg_prs said:

vasselmeyer said:

I was very familiar with the MS-3 as I had an ES-8 based board prior to getting my GT-1000. You can assign the treadle position on an expression pedal to change between a couple of values so could change the mix and the repeat values of a delay quite easily.

Cool. How do you find the on board drives? I've put a WTB advert up already

I have stacked two drives on mine, which has worked well in a live context.

andyg_prs · October 2023

More random comparisons with the ES-5. Can you program a button so that when held down an effect or loop is engaged.

For example on my ES-5 I have a tremolo pedal in a loop and when I hold down the same button that changes patches it engages the loop.

The ES-5 manual gives examples like this, the MS-3 guide doesn’t seem to.

TheBigDipper · October 2023

andyg_prs said:

More random comparisons with the ES-5. Can you program a button so that when held down an effect or loop is engaged.

For example on my ES-5 I have a tremolo pedal in a loop and when I hold down the same button that changes patches it engages the loop.

The ES-5 manual gives examples like this, the MS-3 guide doesn’t seem to.

Page 12 of the MS-3 manual shows it supports the Current Number feature for assigns just like the ES-5 does. That's what I use on some presets to toggle something.

andyg_prs · October 2023

I've not noticed this with my ES-5, do you get this with the MS-3? https://youtu.be/n9hTFb50HJo?t=107

sgosden · October 2023

HX fx ?
The drives are decent, and if you dont like them, there are are loops.

andyg_prs · October 2023

Only me……this is what I’d like to be able to do with the MS-3. I’m emulating some of what I do with the ES-5 – but I’m trying to reduce the footprint as my ES-5 has a noisegate, two delay pedals, a tremolo pedal and an EQ pedal that I’d like to do away with.

Imagine I’m using a single bank with 4 presets, numbered as per the footswitches.

1 = clean amp channel

2 = clean amp channel, Keeley DS-1 in loop 1

3 = clean amp channel, CM Plexitone in loop 2

4 = high gain channel

So that’s the CTL out used.

Now, I’d like to emulate a DD-7, have it permanently on, but use an external ES-5 external expression pedal to change the mix from zero to whatever I choose. I assume I could use the EXP1 input for that?

I’d like to have a button I can press (I have an FS-6 I could use as an external controller, EXP2?) to invoke a slapback delay – so I have to be able to have two delays enabled at the same time.

I’ll have some ambient reverb on for all presets….

I want to be able to have an internal tremolo effect that I can use momentarily by leaving my foot on the active preset footswitch. So if I’m on preset 1. I press and hold footswitch 1 for tremolo.

That then leaves what I do for a volume pedal and volume boosts.

Today with the ES-5 I have the mute button configured to send a midi command to my CaptorX for a cab with more volume. I guess I could use the second button on the FS-6 via EXP2 for that?

For general volume I guess I could use the loop 3 for the effects loop, and have an actual volume control pedal in there – I have my volume pedal in the fx loop with my ES-5.

Is what I’ve described the maximum in terms of having switches to turn stuff on/off or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks,

Andy

vasselmeyer · October 2023

andyg_prs said:

More random comparisons with the ES-5. Can you program a button so that when held down an effect or loop is engaged.

For example on my ES-5 I have a tremolo pedal in a loop and when I hold down the same button that changes patches it engages the loop.

The ES-5 manual gives examples like this, the MS-3 guide doesn’t seem to.

Yes. You could do that in two ways...

1) In PATCH mode you can add a CURNUM assign to press the currently engaged patch button. You can turn have a single function such as turning on/off loops or multiple functions through ASSIGN to to several things at the same time.

2) In manual mode you enter the patch you've selected and then the four buttons can all have individual functions...again either single or multi functions.

Think of a bank as four individual pedalboards of pedals...in a bank, patch 1 is clean and when I enter I can do COMP, CHORUS, BOOST and DELAY all on individual switches. In patch 2 I have crunch (plus more crunch through CURNUM), PHASER, BOOST and DELAY, in patch 3 I have BREAKUP (plus more gain through CURNUM), TREM, BOOST and TAP. And so on. If I want more pedalboards I go up to the next bank and get four more patches of four sounds.

In manual mode, the switch can be latching or momentary...you decide which.

vasselmeyer · October 2023

andyg_prs said:

I've not noticed this with my ES-5, do you get this with the MS-3? https://youtu.be/n9hTFb50HJo?t=107

The answer is yes...that happens. I mentioned no trails earlier in the thread. However, in my last post I talked about going into manual mode. In that you have four switches which can do single or multiple things. Let me give you an example of a "80s Pop" patch which is one I use for a couple of songs:

I set up a patch which is has a very mild breakup tone with teh NATURAL overdrive sound. Thsi is always on and I also have REVERB on. Then, in patch mode CURNUM turns a compressor on/off prior to jumping into the manual mode. Then I go into manual mode which gives me:

Switch 1) Use ASSIGN to change the parameters of the NATURAL sound to give me more gain/dirt but drops the volume a little so I can get a crunchier sound in a chorus but without increasing the volume too much

Switch 2) turns CHORUS on/off

Switch 3) turns TREM on/off

Switch 4) Use ASSIGN to turn on/off my amp's boost control through the CTRL jack of the MS-3 and a DELAY effect

I can use an expression pedal to give me a delay time between 120ms (toe down) or 350ms (heel down) or any value in between depending on the position of the treadle. Because the expression pedal has two in/outs it can have two functions. One is in a loop and can be a volume pedal and the otehr is into the EXP part of the MS-3. When it's not being uses as an expression pedal I can engage the volume loop and use it for swells.

This is all on one patch and easily covers a bunch of songs. If I really need more sounds in the same song then I can switch patches which gives a small gap during a drum fill leading up to a verse/chorus change which no-one else would ever notice.

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Recommendations for effects / amp switching unit

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