P90's and the tone control

Wonky · October 2023

So I've just got my first P90 guitar (NGD to come) and at first I loved the neck pickup, but the bridge sounded very harsh indeed. Now these days I don't play gigs, but I do record, so I'm used to adjusting amps to the instrument, but I just just couldn't get it to sing.
Until I started messing with the tone control and what do you know, it started getting to a magic tone pretty quickly.
So the guitar has Bare Knuckle boot camp old guards for reference. Clean amp, I've found the neck pickup does Jazz really well, as well as many finger style stuff. Add a bit of gain and it still sounds great and ramp the gain right up and it even sounds amazing with sweep picked arpeggios.
The bridge was Ice pick harsh without tone control adjustment, almost unusable with any amp setting. However it's a different story once you start dialing the tone back. In fact, I'd go as far as to say, some of the best tones I've ever had! Now that's saying something with my guitar and amp collection. I've got some top notch Sh*t with pickups from loads of the top people.
So, I'm wondering is this how everyone does the P90 thing.
I here loads of people these days talking about P90's and I'd say, if you haven't tried them, you should give them a go, but remember the tone control. I'm a convert for sure

Funkfingers · October 2023

P90s

valve amplifier saturation.

Work the volume control(s) too.

The sweet spot is where playing dynamics govern overdrive intensity. Then, you should be able to get a cocked wah sound without using a wah pedal. (This is how Knopfler got the Money For Nothing sound.) LP Junior, tone pot rolled back a bit, cranked Crate valve amp, posh microphones.

Wonky · October 2023

Funkfingers said:

P90s valve amplifier saturation.

Work the volume control(s) too.

The sweet spot is where playing dynamics govern overdrive intensity. Then, you should be able to get a cocked wah sound without using a wah pedal. (This is how Knopfler got the Money For Nothing sound.) LP Junior, tone pot rolled back a bit, cranked Crate valve amp, posh microphones.

I didn't know that's how it was done. I honestly thought it was a cocked Wah.
I've found that rolling back the volume with the tone adjusted on the bridge give some good affects. The guitar I've got must have treble bleed on it as the edge doesn't seem to calm with the volume.

Teyeplayer · October 2023

P90s are wonderful and cry out for volume and tone adjustment, you have to listen to your guitar which some players simply don’t do.

Those are a good set of pickups, I believe I have the same in my Eastman Juliet, they sound (to my ear) far better than several other similar priced p90s I have had in the past.

p90fool · October 2023

I know I've shared this before, but this is my bridge P90 with the tone rolled down, showing how it interacts with the volume control.

It's an extreme example because I had the tone all the way off, but there are a load of shades in between.

You're right though, a bridge P90 can have a lot of fatiguing upper mids if you ignore your controls

ICBM · October 2023

Wonky said:

I didn't know that's how it was done. I honestly thought it was a cocked Wah.

It was.

https://www.toontrack.com/news/the-money-for-nothing-tone/

LP Junior, Morley wah, Laney amp (AOR100 if the recollection of it being a 2x12" is correct, it was the only one they made at the time), SM57 pointing at the floor.

I do love the jangly, aggressive P90 bridge pickup wide open sound though, I've never particularly been a fan of the tone control with them - too nasal. Shows how we're all different...

Funkfingers · October 2023

Wonky said:
I honestly thought it was a cocked Wah.

That was on tour. Saves carrying a vintage Junior for just one song. The LP Standard was required for other songs in the set. Add wah pedal and fake it.

The account of Knopfler recording with a Junior into a cranked amp comes from an article in the May 2006 edition of Sound On Sound magazine. The series was called Classic Tracks. In this, the producer, sound engineer or remix engineer describes how a famous song was completed.

I misremembered one detail. The amp was a Laney not a Crate.

Knopfler mainly plays fingerstyle. This enables him to "milk" the overdrive saturation through playing dynamics.

In the video kindly posted earlier, @p90fool can be seen varying where he picks the strings and sometimes digging in to change how each note, double stop and chord sounds.

AK99 · October 2023

Funkfingers said:

P90s valve amplifier saturation.

Work the volume control(s) too.

The sweet spot is where playing dynamics govern overdrive intensity. Then, you should be able to get a cocked wah sound without using a wah pedal. (This is how Knopfler got the Money For Nothing sound.) LP Junior, tone pot rolled back a bit, cranked Crate valve amp, posh microphones.

Knew it was a Gibson LP, but never heard it was a Junior before. You gotta love the whole minimalist / very little to fk about thing going on with the Juniors

markj · October 2023

Pickup heights are very important on P90’s as well.

mrkb · October 2023

I’ve converted both my p90 guitars to volume/volume control as it allows blending in the middle position.

Keefy · October 2023

I have two P90 guitars (different pickups though) and with the bridge pickup I rarely have the tone control up full, it’s more often between 4 and 6. It just sounds better to me like that.

Danielsguitars · October 2023

It's also the p90 imo, my new goldtop has old wire mojo p90s and they are better than my original 56 p90s, the bridge isn't harsh and was pretty spot on to an original 54 I had in for comparison, the volume and tone was on 10 from memory.

This is an original 54 vs my Royale 54.

Sassafras · October 2023

I don't like tone controls on any pickups but I like them even less on P90s, unless I want a really horrible plummy, muffled sound.

stimpsonslostson · October 2023

Sassafras said:

I don't like tone controls on any pickups but I like them even less on P90s, unless I want a really horrible plummy, muffled sound.

I use the 50s wiring style on my LP jr- it takes away the muffled tone.
Now I can get an almost acoustic sound by turning vol & tone to about 3 and a full "rock" sound by dialling them up.

Keefy · October 2023

stimpsonslostson said:

Sassafras said:

I don't like tone controls on any pickups but I like them even less on P90s, unless I want a really horrible plummy, muffled sound.

I use the 50s wiring style on my LP jr- it takes away the muffled tone.
Now I can get an almost acoustic sound by turning vol & tone to about 3 and a full "rock" sound by dialling them up.

A good test of a Les Paul Junior is to play it with the volume and tone both at 5. If you can hear an element of acoustic guitar, it’s a good one.

(Not my original idea but I’ve found it to be true.)

springhead · October 2023

Keefy said:

stimpsonslostson said:

Sassafras said:

I don't like tone controls on any pickups but I like them even less on P90s, unless I want a really horrible plummy, muffled sound.

I use the 50s wiring style on my LP jr- it takes away the muffled tone.
Now I can get an almost acoustic sound by turning vol & tone to about 3 and a full "rock" sound by dialling them up.

A good test of a Les Paul Junior is to play it with the volume and tone both at 5. If you can hear an element of acoustic guitar, it’s a good one.

(Not my original idea but I’ve found it to be true.)

I’ve got an old Les Paul Special that does that trick nicely. You can hear bits of it from Townshend on Live At Leeds with his SG Specials.

Wonky · October 2023

Sassafras said:

I don't like tone controls on any pickups but I like them even less on P90s, unless I want a really horrible plummy, muffled sound.

I do use tone the tone control, but until the p90's it was just mostly for jazz stuff. The neck p90 doesn't seem to need the tone much, but the bridge needs it so bad. Doesn't get plummy until you drop below 3 on the tone control with the one I've got.
I've no other experience of p90's though, so others could be completely different for all I know.

Wonky · October 2023

So I think think that my P90's, bareknuckle old guard, are sort of emulations of the original low powered Gibson P90's. So I'm now wondering what the more powerful ones bring to the party, especially if people are already having to use the volume control to tame them.
What's your thoughts? Do I need another guitar with more aggressive P90's?

springhead · October 2023

I've never thought of Gibson P90's as being particularly low powered. Mines an old Les Paul Special and they're the loudest pickups of any guitar I own. You can set them quite close to the strings, without the unwanted side effects you get from Fender single coils.

ICBM · October 2023

Overwound P90s are almost always horribly middy and congested, rather than just more powerful, at least once you get up beyond the ‘compensated bridge pickup’ level, in my experience.

Wonky · October 2023

springhead said:

I've never thought of Gibson P90's as being particularly low powered. Mines an old Les Paul Special and they're the loudest pickups of any guitar I own. You can set them quite close to the strings, without the unwanted side effects you get from Fender single coils.

I'm just going on the resistance I suppose, but mine are definitely not the loudest pickups I have.

ICBM said:

Overwound P90s are almost always horribly middy and congested, rather than just more powerful, at least once you get up beyond the ‘compensated bridge pickup’ level, in my experience.

That's good to know. I'm thinking that the tone I'm getting right now wouldn't benefit from anything, let alone more power.

Teyeplayer · October 2023

Wonky said:.

That's good to know. I'm thinking that the tone I'm getting right now wouldn't benefit from anything, let alone more power.

I am increasingly of the conclusion that ‘power is an illusion’ when it comes to pickups. There is articulation, a sweet spot and then mush.

Wonky · October 2023

Teyeplayer said:

Wonky said:.

That's good to know. I'm thinking that the tone I'm getting right now wouldn't benefit from anything, let alone more power.

I am increasingly of the conclusion that ‘power is an illusion’ when it comes to pickups. There is articulation, a sweet spot and then mush.

I've found the same TBH. Strat pickups are like this for me too. More power brings a thinker sound and that's not really the point of single coils for me. May as well be a humbucker, but even then, unless you're playing metal, there's no point as boosts cover this without a pickup change.
I'm loving the old guard P90's so far.

markj · October 2023

Danielsguitars said:

It's also the p90 imo, my new goldtop has old wire mojo p90s and they are better than my original 56 p90s, the bridge isn't harsh and was pretty spot on to an original 54 I had in for comparison, the volume and tone was on 10 from memory.

This is an original 54 vs my Royale 54.

What are the mags in the Mojo P90's and what's their output?

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P90's and the tone control

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