Jimmy Page's tone

Voxman · October 2023

Never seen this vid before but as Jimmy Page is my favourite guitarist, I found this really interesting.

thecolourbox · October 2023

Interesting to watch as is anything about the wonderful tone that Page maintained, however it's interesting how he says it can't be bought and that it's all head/heart/hands, whereas surely he means it's about 50/50 given that he uses a £200 plexi based overdrive pedal for most of the sounds

Still, nice sounds and playing, interesting insight into the techniques. I particularly enjoyed the A/B between the same thing with and without slap back and reverb.

Sassafras · October 2023

Isn't he just stating the obvious but taking a long time over it?

stickyfiddle · October 2023

I don't think Jimmy Page had good tone very often. Am I the only one?

He's 100% right about the hands thing though.

Cols · October 2023

Is it just me that found it vaguely maddening the way he kept referring to “using the humbuck pickup”?

Effectively his position is “In order to get Jimmy Page’s tone you need (a) a Les Paul (b) a valve amp with the gain quite low (c) a spot of reverb or echo and (d) to be Jimmy Page. Which for live stuff is pretty close to the truth, but he strikes me as someone who isn’t terribly interested in the technical details of guitar kit.

stickyfiddle said:

I don't think Jimmy Page had good tone very often. Am I the only one?

He's 100% right about the hands thing though.

His studio stuff with Zeppelin had some excellent tones up to Physical Graffiti - Since I’ve Been Loving You is particularly brilliant. Live, it was patchy - very loud and quite toppy.

ICBM · October 2023

stickyfiddle said:

I don't think Jimmy Page had good tone very often. Am I the only one?

No, you're not. I usually find his tone rather thin and scratchy, although it works in the context of the music.

"Very small amount of gain" - lol

That's absolutely loads, way more than Page ever used. Not surprising that the booster in front of it makes almost no difference. He is right that most of it is the player, and perfectly demonstrates that, but it's also interesting to listen to the actual sound and then realise that getting the phrasing and the attack right makes your brain interpret it as 'the same sound' when in fact it's really quite different.

RocknRollDave · October 2023

There’s a sense of space and dynamics that Page captured very well in his recordings, but that didn’t always (often?) translate to a decent core tone.

Sporky · October 2023

Don't you just need whatever you had at the time, and for the passing of years to declare you a genius?

fretfinder · October 2023

ICBM said: "Very small amount of gain" - lol

That's absolutely loads, way more than Page ever used. Not surprising that the booster in front of it makes almost no difference. He is right that most of it is the player, and perfectly demonstrates that, but it's also interesting to listen to the actual sound and then realise that getting the phrasing and the attack right makes your brain interpret it as 'the same sound' when in fact it's really quite different.

^^ This. There’s a common misconception that the various great guitarists from the 60s and 70s used way more gain than they actually did, including Jimmy Page and Paul Kossoff to name but two.

merlin · October 2023

Is it necessary to capture someone else's tone? Surely if he'd spent as much time looking for his own he may have ended up sounding more like himself and possibly even good in his own right.

gatheredinsong · October 2023

Marc's attempt at Communication Breakdown:

ryanverbena · October 2023

My favourite is from Jack when he was at Peach. He was always very open about being inspired by Jimmy. I don’t thin anyone does it better than the man himself:

https://youtu.be/9M2XcF_S0AY?si=NO17r00uB475Yask

StuartMac290 · October 2023

All that effort to sound fuck-all like Jimmy Page.

The usual mistake - far, FAR too much gain. It reminds me of the hilarious efforts you used to get in Guitarist magazine to "nail" AC/DC tones, invariably followed by some ratty overdrive sounds. Malcolm Young's tone was virtually clean - it was just huge and rich and toneful.

GoldenEraGuitars · October 2023

Video technically pointless from the point where he admits you can’t buy another guitarists tone. Just for reference, it was around the 40 second mark lol

Blaendulais · October 2023

ryanverbena said:

My favourite is from Jack when he was at Peach. He was always very open about being inspired by Jimmy. I don’t thin anyone does it better than the man himself:

https://youtu.be/9M2XcF_S0AY?si=NO17r00uB475Yask

another not at all like Page tone!

NicoAdie · October 2023

You definitely need to use Hercos if you’re even going to get in the ballpark, that scratchy attack on the note is crucial

Voxman · October 2023

I think what the vid demonstrates is actually contrary to the vid title. Ie that it's actually more important to play things the right way to capture as many nuances to Jimmy's playing as you can, rather than being anal about his tone.

The other thing it demonstrates well is that you don't need to get overly hung up on Jimmy's gear. A decent clean valve amp and a few decent pedals (distortion, reverb, delay, phaser or flanger) is all you really need because it's more about the playing and picking dynamics.

And the guy certainly can play and really understands how Jimmy plays. I picked up a lot just from the licks he was playing.

ICBM · October 2023

RocknRollDave said:

There’s a sense of space and dynamics that Page captured very well in his recordings, but that didn’t always (often?) translate to a decent core tone.

I think it's actually *because* it isn't a decent core tone - it's easy to think that a great guitar sound in isolation will sound great in a mix, whereas in fact you often need to take away a lot of the low-end and some of the top to allow space for the other instruments and vocals.

The trick to being a good producer - which of course Page also was - is doing that but making the guitar still sound *as if* it's full and powerful.

Voxman said:

I think what the vid demonstrates is actually contrary to the vid title. Ie that it's actually more important to play things the right way to capture as many nuances to Jimmy's playing as you can, rather than being anal about his tone.

The other thing it demonstrates well is that you don't need to get overly hung up on Jimmy's gear. A decent clean valve amp and a few decent pedals (distortion, reverb, delay, phaser or flanger) is all you really need because it's more about the playing and picking dynamics.

And the guy certainly can play and really understands how Jimmy plays. I picked up a lot just from the licks he was playing.

Exactly. He plays like Page, so it sounds like Page.

There are a few other fairly well-known clips which demonstrate the point by stretching it even further - Satriani with a Squier Strat and a cheap amp but still sounding pretty much like himself, Mick Ronson playing Ziggy Stardust on a Tele with a lot of overdrive - where your first impression is that it "sounds just like the record", although when you actually listen to the *tone* in isolation, it doesn't at all - and even more amazingly, Joe Walsh playing Life In The Fast Lane on an acoustic 12-string... it *obviously* doesn't sound like the record, and yet your first impression is still that it does because he phrases it and hits the strings in the same way.

KevS · October 2023

NicoAdie said:

You definitely need to use Hercos if you’re even going to get in the ballpark, that scratchy attack on the note is crucial

This,the pick makes a big difference..Tortex,Nylon and Celluloid do sound different..Different thicknesses,,but all flex at different thickness points,.Use a nylon pick for Page..Oh and lots of treble,but less than this guy..So many ways to hold a pick and surfaces on a pick also,,also worn vs non worn...It's the first thing in contact with the string....I've weaned myself down to a slightly lighter pick,,I find I get a more open and pleasing rhythm sound,,but can still do decent alternate picking....Also the shoulders past the tip point of the Herco is a little wider than the standard Dunlop..My picking position seems to settle where the pick goes slightly forwards by a few degrees toward the headstock..This gives more picking surface to strike the string..Plus Hercos have grip,but not too much that it makes it hard to re adjust. position..I like Herco's,but because I find them tactile,not because of Page..Page very probably holds his differently..

This sounds like an obvious Comment,but adjusting the controls till you like the sound and using items that you get on with and like the sound/usability / feel of is my main goal and was also Page's..This can come down to the tiniest thing like preferring a certain pick edge as your number one pick type...How difficult is it to try and capture those elements,,especially if you just don't know..Jimmy Page would sound very different to what I sound like, through my gear and vice versa..First thing he would do is adjust the controls to his taste and touch,or of course play through his own set up..Not comparing my skills to his by the way in case you think my ego is out of control..lol

Then,what did it sound like in front of the microphone....I know Page used 2 Mics,,One Close and one a Distance away and said "distance equals depth".What EQ 'ing happened after the microphone..

Two messages here,,try using less distortion/overdrive..
Although the variation of mids can be just as important in my own experience..
The other should have been,use what gear suits you,,then change your playing feel to try to emulate....
I guess with modelling etc,,folk have so much choice now though,so you try to go for the gear your influences used,either the emulation of or the actual stuff....

How a player feels time ,their vibrato and way they strike the string,plus how they think are massive,,to me they choose gear and use settings that compliment that..There is so much you can't emulate..

I apologise for any stating of the obvious..

mudslide73 · October 2023

Jimmy Sakurai is probably the closest - he takes it to incredible lengths. When he was still playing with his Mr Jimmy band he even did the mannerisms (a bit spooky). He's now with Jason Bonham's band and I think he's been told to rein it in a bit. Anyway..

soma1975 · October 2023

I'd like to see Mr jimmy and Randy Hanson go on tour together.

KevS · October 2023

I'd like to see a version of Mr Blobby called Mr Jobbie..A big talking turd walking around saying,,"Jobbie,Jobbie,,Jobbie""..
Sorry just a random though...Do feel free to continue..

BigPaulie · October 2023

StuartMac290 said:

All that effort to sound fuck-all like Jimmy Page.

The usual mistake - far, FAR too much gain. It reminds me of the hilarious efforts you used to get in Guitarist magazine to "nail" AC/DC tones, invariably followed by some ratty overdrive sounds. Malcolm Young's tone was virtually clean - it was just huge and rich and toneful.

Exactly what I was thinking.

The guy in the video sounds nothing like Jimmy; recorded nor live.

DefaultM · October 2023

This smug prick can humbuck right off.

DefaultM · October 2023

“I’m getting really close now to Page’s sound”

No, you’re not.

DefaultM · October 2023

Triple post sorry. I'm not a fan of Jimmy Page and I wouldn't say id ever thought wow what a tone, but listen to when this guy plays The Ocean. You only need to compare the 2 for a second to hear it sounds nothing like it.
The record is almost clean compared with this, and he isn't playing with the same dynamics.
I just think it's funny to talk with such authority and look so pleased with yourself, then you play and you've not done what you're claiming at all.

merlin · October 2023

Wrong Jimmy. He's actually trying to sound like Jimi. He's crap at that too.

impmann · October 2023

The cheapest ways to sound like Page:

Dial all bass response out of your amp.
Turn it up loud to the point that’s crispy on the top end, but gives sustain.
Play with a drummer who sits on the back of the beat and then play loosely on the back of that.
Kick in a cocked wah for solos - set for screech.

You don’t need expensive kit. I’m no fan of Page’s recorded or live ‘toanz’ in isolation but as said above, in the context of the band it sounded huge - very ringy and boomy drums, coupled with a super precise and melodic bass player using a fairly middly/bassy tone.

Too much is made of sounding like someone else. Try sounding like yourself.

DefaultM · October 2023

impmann said:

Too much is made of sounding like someone else. Try sounding like yourself.

I used to record at Steelworks studios in Sheffield as part of my Uni course, and I'm pleased to say one of the engineers said that my guitar tone was the worst he'd ever heard in his life.
I think it was a Pod XT straight in to the desk, and I thought it sounded amazing haha.

ThePrettyDamned · October 2023

ICBM said:

RocknRollDave said:

There’s a sense of space and dynamics that Page captured very well in his recordings, but that didn’t always (often?) translate to a decent core tone.

I think it's actually *because* it isn't a decent core tone - it's easy to think that a great guitar sound in isolation will sound great in a mix, whereas in fact you often need to take away a lot of the low-end and some of the top to allow space for the other instruments and vocals.

The trick to being a good producer - which of course Page also was - is doing that but making the guitar still sound *as if* it's full and powerful.

Voxman said:

I think what the vid demonstrates is actually contrary to the vid title. Ie that it's actually more important to play things the right way to capture as many nuances to Jimmy's playing as you can, rather than being anal about his tone.

The other thing it demonstrates well is that you don't need to get overly hung up on Jimmy's gear. A decent clean valve amp and a few decent pedals (distortion, reverb, delay, phaser or flanger) is all you really need because it's more about the playing and picking dynamics.

And the guy certainly can play and really understands how Jimmy plays. I picked up a lot just from the licks he was playing.

Exactly. He plays like Page, so it sounds like Page.

There are a few other fairly well-known clips which demonstrate the point by stretching it even further - Satriani with a Squier Strat and a cheap amp but still sounding pretty much like himself, Mick Ronson playing Ziggy Stardust on a Tele with a lot of overdrive - where your first impression is that it "sounds just like the record", although when you actually listen to the *tone* in isolation, it doesn't at all - and even more amazingly, Joe Walsh playing Life In The Fast Lane on an acoustic 12-string... it *obviously* doesn't sound like the record, and yet your first impression is still that it does because he phrases it and hits the strings in the same way.

I feel this way about John frusciante's tones on BSSM. There are solo guitar track recordings and they are mostly very thin, scratchy, occasionally very buzzy and almost offensive.

In a mix, absolutely perfect.

That said, led zeppelin don't do much for me so what do I know about taste?!

OilCityPickups · October 2023

impmann said:

The cheapest ways to sound like Page:

Dial all bass response out of your amp.
Turn it up loud to the point that’s crispy on the top end, but gives sustain.
Play with a drummer who sits on the back of the beat and then play loosely on the back of that.
Kick in a cocked wah for solos - set for screech.

You don’t need expensive kit. I’m no fan of Page’s recorded or live ‘toanz’ in isolation but as said above, in the context of the band it sounded huge - very ringy and boomy drums, coupled with a super precise and melodic bass player using a fairly middly/bassy tone.

Too much is made of sounding like someone else. Try sounding like yourself.

That last statement is bang on the money :-)

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Jimmy Page's tone

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