Upgrading a 1985 Ibanez Roadstar II

PLOP · October 2023

Hey

Recently I got an 85 Ibanez Roadstar II, which I’m really liking but I want to change a few things on it. Problem is, my electronics knowledge and skills are minimal at best!

Easy things first, it needs a new 5-way switch. It looks to be a simple Strat-style one, so I would expect that’s just a basic swap out for a new one.

The pots are a bit crackly, so while I’m in there I might swap those out too if they don’t clean up with some spray. The tone knob is push-push to coil-split the bridge humbucker, which I can’t understand the logic of when the push-pull is a visual indicator of the position! So I’d like to put a push-pull there instead.

Now there’s the more complicated stuff…

The bridge is meant to be a floating trem, which I’ve already blocked off with bits of wood because I know I don’t like that. The bridge is a “Pro RockR” - a massive chunk of metal that requires a screwdriver to remove and change strings, with little bits that can easily go missing. What are the chances of another, more modern and less complicated bridge fitting in there without much hassle?

Edit: I may be SOL on this one… https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/226345/ibanez-pro-rockr-trem-replacement It’s ok, I don’t hate the bridge, but it’s not my favourite thing in the world. This might be the thing stopping me treating this guitar as my main gigger, because emergency string changes in dark rooms would be practically impossible.

Next up should be fairly simple too, replacing the tuners with locking ones. Currently there are basic tuners but they’re not great because the stability would usually have been held by the locking nut, which I’m not using because I’m not using the trem. I might need to add a string tree to the headstock because it’s very flat and strings easily can pop out. Closer inspection reveals the previous owner has tried to cut the nut slots with his teeth apparently, might be better to just replace the nut entirely. Another thing to add to the list!

Like I said, these mods are probably easy enough for some of you to do with your eyes closed but I’d like to learn the skills myself!

I’ll put some pictures up soon of the detail shots, if required. I think everything here sounds doable, except maybe the bridge replacement

Thanks for any input and help, I need the tips because I’m totally blind here! I’m treating this as a warm up to a potential parts build I might attempt in future!

Cheers!

ICBM · October 2023

PLOP said:
Easy things first, it needs a new 5-way switch. It looks to be a simple Strat-style one, so I would expect that’s just a basic swap out for a new one.
The pots are a bit crackly, so while I’m in there I might swap those out too if they don’t clean up with some spray. The tone knob is push-push to coil-split the bridge humbucker, which I can’t understand the logic of when the push-pull is a visual indicator of the position! So I’d like to put a push-pull there instead.

If you're going to replace the switch, use a USA-made CRL or (at a push) Oak Grigsby - anything else is a false economy really. But before you do, check the spacing between the mounting screws - some Japanese guitars of this era used an odd 'short frame' switch which makes life difficult, I can't remember if this is one... 41mm is the standard USA size, 32mm is the 'short' size.

If the pots are original they will be quite decent quality. The logic of the push-push is that they're easier to use, but if you prefer a push-pull then it's a straightforward swap. When you take the old knob off, make sure the switch is in the 'up' position (there is a small visible difference) first, or you'll break the mechanism.

PLOP said:
The bridge is meant to be a floating trem, which I’ve already blocked off with bits of wood because I know I don’t like that. The bridge is a “Pro RockR” - a massive chunk of metal that requires a screwdriver to remove and change strings, with little bits that can easily go missing. What are the chances of another, more modern and less complicated bridge fitting in there without much hassle?

Zero.

They're absolutely incompatible with any other bridge, and this - combined with their tendency to break - is the most difficult problem with these guitars. The only really practical solution is to fill the original mounting holes and re-drill new ones for a standard Floyd Rose. I think there may be a small amount of body routing needed too.

PLOP said:
Next up should be fairly simple too, replacing the tuners with locking ones. Currently there are basic tuners but they’re not great because the stability would usually have been held by the locking nut, which I’m not using because I’m not using the trem. I might need to add a string tree to the headstock because it’s very flat and strings easily can pop out.

The originals should be Gotohs I think, so some of their range with the same footprint should fit. You will need a string tree probably even if you fit staggered-height ones - but I would do that first and see if it works.

PLOP · October 2023

@ICBM ;

Thanks for the info - Lots of good stuff to start with!

Interesting about the switch being a different size (and by interesting, I mean irritating) but I'll see if it can be cleaned up a bit before swapping it out. Its just crackly when changing, and the position 2 (or 4? the one that's middle+bridge) is unreliable and the signal cuts out intermittently. A quick measurement of the screw distance shows its 42mm, which should mean it'll be easy to find a replacement if necessary!

The pots are likely original - It does seem like this guitar has not had a whole lot of use and may have sat in the case in the loft for ten or more years. For being almost 40 years old, its in pretty good nick overall. I think the crackly volume may just need a clean, but the push-push tone is definitely on my list to swap out.

As for the bridge, I think I may have been midway through editing my original post when you replied. I found a number of forums and posts of people asking the same thing, and being told that its practically impossible and also not worth the work. Its ok, like I said, the bridge isn't bad, I'm just not a fan.

Tuners are original too, being Ibanez Smooth Tuner II. Again, they're fine, but I much prefer locking ones just for ease of use and reliability.

Here's a pic of the existing locking nut system. https://imgur.com/a/K5OEt5k

I've taken the locking bolts out of this thing, put the strings though and it now acts as a string tree, negating my need to change it. I'll see how it gets on, but so far this looks like an ok solution.

I may or may not in future change the output jack too. There isn't anything wrong with this one, but it has this weird rubber gasket around it which is starting to split. It's fully functional, but it is a weird design choice.

steamabacus · October 2023

I have a 1982 Ibanez Blazer and that uses the normal strat sized selector switch so I suspect your later Roadstar will be the same.

Funkfingers · October 2023

PLOP said:
The bridge is a “Pro RockR” - a massive chunk of metal

CORRECTION
The Ibanez Pro Rock'r is a massive chunk of zinc.

ICBM said:

PLOP said:
What are the chances of another, more modern and less complicated bridge fitting in there without much hassle?

Zero.

They're absolutely incompatible with any other bridge, and this - combined with their tendency to break - is the most difficult problem with these guitars.

Definitively this!

@HarrySeven and I can confirm this! Not even the earlier Hard Rocker is a direct replacement. (A small amount of wood would need to be removed. The cavity may not be entirely covered afterwards.)

With regard to the control electronics components, it would help to know the exact model number of the guitar. Failing that, post a photograph. Somebody here will recognise it.

HarrySeven And I … coming to a cinema near you this Autumn.

HarrySeven · October 2023

Funkfingers said:

@HarrySeven and I can confirm this! Not even the earlier Hard Rocker is a direct replacement. (A small amount of wood would need to be removed. The cavity may not be entirely covered afterwards.)

I still have various Ibanez RSII’s in equally various states of (dis)repair due to the shitty PR’r vibrato system.

PLOP · October 2023

@Funkfingers

Its an RS440. Everything electronic looks stock from what I can tell - But I just put new strings on and never thought to get pictures from under the pickguard!

I found this https://ibanez.fandom.com/wiki/RS440 and the pictured one there is identical to mine (I wish it was the white one though!).

nero1701 · October 2023

I used to know a junkie in a village called Kelty, Poor guy sold everything for smack except his Ibanez Roadstar 2

Funkfingers · October 2023

RS440 is a straightforward HSS with coil split, through master volume and master tone.

Some of the 5xx series had dual volume pots.

As mentioned by @ICBM, the original machineheads were Gotoh. Quality should be immaterial if the string lock device is present.

With both the Hard Rocker and Pro Rock'r vibratos, the smartest option is to set the base flush against the guitar body and treat it as a fixed bridge.

Once that is stabilised, it is time to look at the pickups. I treated my RS405 to DiMarzio Chopper, Cruiser N and Fast Track 1 pickups. It rocks but manages to retain a hint of Stratocaster in selector switch positions 2 and 4.

PLOP · October 2023

I cut some pieces of wood to use in the back of the bridge and it works great as a fixed bridge now. I also stuffed the back of cavity with tissue paper because I noticed that springs were rattling, especially on higher gain settings. Is this normal for stat style bridges? I blocked off a Floyd I had a long time ago and never had this issue. It’s not loud, but it is noticeable. It sounds a bit like the slapback from a spring reverb if that makes sense.

I’m not sure I’ll be concerned about the pickups, I quite like them. However, I’ve set the bridge pickup literally as far down the screws as it can be, it’s so hot that everything just sounds like mush if it’s higher. So maybe in future I’d swap that for something but at the minute it’s ok.

ICBM · October 2023

Funkfingers said:

CORRECTION
The Ibanez Pro Rock'r is a massive chunk of shit.

Further correction for accuracy.

What's so baffling and frustrating about all these oddball vibratos - Ibanez are not the only culprit - is that the cost in the amount of time and effort designing and tooling up to manufacture them must have exceeded the payment of the licence fee to Floyd Rose.

I recently had a discussion about something at my current work where the designer of our lovely new product which is being released soon, has finally admitted it was a mistake to base it around a bespoke non-standard-size component, and they've changed it to a standard size. I did tell the designer that this was a huge improvement, for exactly the reasons we are now discussing... they have realised that if the bespoke part ever became unavailable, they would be in trouble.

Funkfingers · October 2023

LOL + Wiz = Wow!

WezV · October 2023

ICBM said:

Funkfingers said:

CORRECTION
The Ibanez Pro Rock'r is a massive chunk of shit.

Further correction for accuracy.

What's so baffling and frustrating about all these oddball vibratos - Ibanez are not the only culprit - is that the cost in the amount of time and effort designing and tooling up to manufacture them must have exceeded the payment of the licence fee to Floyd Rose.

I recently had a discussion about something at my current work where the designer of our lovely new product which is being released soon, has finally admitted it was a mistake to base it around a bespoke non-standard-size component, and they've changed it to a standard size. I did tell the designer that this was a huge improvement, for exactly the reasons we are now discussing... they have realised that if the bespoke part ever became unavailable, they would be in trouble.

I've been in similar meetings. I was amazed how much it cost to change the shape of a label on a standard sized bottle.

ICBM · October 2023

WezV said:

I've been in similar meetings. I was amazed how much it cost to change the shape of a label on a standard sized bottle.

It’s hugely expensive to change one part of a mass-produced product, it only makes sense if the result saves money over a long production run.

I’m similarly baffled by the choice Fender made in the early 80s with the Strat, to take the Freeflyte vibrato - not only the design and manufacture of a whole new and more complex bridge unit, but re-tooling (it would have been hard tooling, not CNC back then) for a totally different body rout - purely to save the manufacturing step of turning the body over and routing the back cavity. I’m amazed it would ever have been profitable, even if they’d made millions of them… but of course in the event, it was not at all well-received (now AKA the Freeshyte) and only lasted a year or so.

I wouldn’t even be surprised if it lost so much money it might have been a contributing factor to CBS selling Fender, so possibly a minor positive in the long run.

PLOP · October 2023

Guitar companies going rogue on mad designs over established ones seems to have calmed down for the most part these days. I couldn’t see Ibanez doing anything other than Floyd or Floyd licensed bridges now, but I think it may have been a combination of not wanting to pay for it but also hoping that their new design would become the standard. It seems like the industry was a Wild West back in the 80s and everyone was doing their own thing.

ICBM · October 2023

PLOP said:

Guitar companies going rogue on mad designs over established ones seems to have calmed down for the most part these days. I couldn’t see Ibanez doing anything other than Floyd or Floyd licensed bridges now, but I think it may have been a combination of not wanting to pay for it but also hoping that their new design would become the standard. It seems like the industry was a Wild West back in the 80s and everyone was doing their own thing.

Yes, pretty much all the Japanese and Korean companies had their own unique, and usually mutually incompatible, locking bridge designs. The other main contenders for the worst are the (In

)Accutune Kahler-like one, and the Bendmaster (the block does, shortly before disintegrating

), both of which are made from something like pressed cheese and are impossible to directly replace with any other unit.

Unfortunately it's prohibitively expensive for anyone to tool up for making replacement components in steel - or even a better alloy - so your only option is woodwork to fit the next nearest decent bridge.

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Upgrading a 1985 Ibanez Roadstar II

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