New old watch day

thermionic · October 2023

I know there’s a few watch enthusiasts here so I thought I’d share this. I was left this by my grandfather years ago but it was stored away in my parents’ house for ages, and I think my uncle borrowed it for a black tie do in that London. I knew it was safe but now I finally have it my possession.

https://i.imgur.com/Mb6bVfX.jpg

It was made by Thomas Russell & Sons in Liverpool, which appears to have been the big watch company of the late 19th/early 20th century. Most models I’ve seen photos of seem to have a small seconds sub-dial though. It belonged to my great-great grandfather, William Grace Roberts, who was a sea captain from a small village on Anglesey. He sailed all over the world in his ship and sounds like a hell of a guy. Here he is in Peru c. 1880.

https://i.imgur.com/Je9DfT4.jpg

The receipt says he bought it in 1884 from a shop that sold nautical instruments and chronometers on Bute Street in Cardiff (probably while his ship was harboured there). He paid £33 for it but got £5 off for trading in another watch. It ticks along nicely. I’m going to try and get some kind of display case for it (and get the receipt framed alongside his photo).

danishbacon · October 2023

That's stunning. Looks like it may be an 18k gold case and the model is likely a start/stop seconds.

thermionic · October 2023

danishbacon said:

That's stunning. Looks like it may be an 18k gold case and the model is likely a start/stop seconds.

The button between my fingers in the photo appears to stop/start the movement. There is another smaller protrusion between the button and the crown but I don’t know what that does. I should do more research on these kind of watches.

If anybody knows something about hallmarks, this is what is inside;

https://i.imgur.com/hm9gRUP.jpg

danishbacon · October 2023

I suppose the 18 probably references 18k, but I'm not familiar with halmarks. The pin between button and crown is for setting the time. You push it in (with your thumbnail and move the crown (so that hands move in clockwise direction) until you set the correct time.

SteveRobinson · October 2023

The three sheaves look like it could be a Chester hallmark

Offset · October 2023

@thermionic - you may find this interesting for the purposes of insurance:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28034/lot/13/thomas-russell-and-son-12-church-st-liverpool-an-18k-gold-keyless-wind-full-hunter-pocket-watch-chester-hallmark-for-1911/

...so your watch was assayed in Chester too, is 18ct gold and the 'S' looks like 1881.

thermionic · October 2023

Thanks for the helpful info both! I see an “18” and the crown denoting gold. Chester would make sense as Thomas Russell & Sons were based in Livrepool. I think he sailed in and out of Liverpool a lot so always assumed he’d bought it there, so was surprised to find he’d actually bought it in Cardiff, 15 minutes walk from where I live now. But he was a well-travelled guy!

thermionic · October 2023

Offset said:

@thermionic - you may find this interesting for the purposes of insurance:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28034/lot/13/thomas-russell-and-son-12-church-st-liverpool-an-18k-gold-keyless-wind-full-hunter-pocket-watch-chester-hallmark-for-1911/

Oof! Mine must be 25 years earlier than that one as well.

Offset · October 2023

thermionic said:

Offset said:

@thermionic - you may find this interesting for the purposes of insurance:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28034/lot/13/thomas-russell-and-son-12-church-st-liverpool-an-18k-gold-keyless-wind-full-hunter-pocket-watch-chester-hallmark-for-1911/

Oof! Mine must be 25 years earlier than that one as well.

Found out a bit more - check my edit above.

Kittyfrisk · October 2023

Offset said:

@thermionic - you may find this interesting for the purposes of insurance:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28034/lot/13/thomas-russell-and-son-12-church-st-liverpool-an-18k-gold-keyless-wind-full-hunter-pocket-watch-chester-hallmark-for-1911/

...so your watch was assayed in Chester too, is 18ct gold and the 'S' looks like 1881.

Very good point regarding insurance, although it seems a shame to have to be discussing values for such beautiful pieces of historical craftsmanship.

thermionic · October 2023

The history of Thomas Russell is quite interesting, although I find this an unlikely bit of diversification for farmers:

”In the 18th century farmers and agricultural employees who wanted to supplement their income during the dark winter months could produce watch components in their home workshops. It was a thriving cottage industry in and around Lancashire with the components sold on for watchmakers to assemble.”

https://www.timewornwatches.co.uk/manufacturers/thomas-russell-son/

Offset · October 2023

Kittyfrisk said:

Offset said:

@thermionic - you may find this interesting for the purposes of insurance:

https://www.bonhams.com/auction/28034/lot/13/thomas-russell-and-son-12-church-st-liverpool-an-18k-gold-keyless-wind-full-hunter-pocket-watch-chester-hallmark-for-1911/

...so your watch was assayed in Chester too, is 18ct gold and the 'S' looks like 1881.

Very good point regarding insurance, although it seems a shame to have to be discussing values for such beautiful pieces of historical craftsmanship.

Yeah, I was thinking that as I posted. It's a fantastic thing.

stevebrum · October 2023

Lovely. Proper history.

As an aside, I really hope great grandfather’s nickname was ‘The Badger”.

drofluf · October 2023

Very nice. Although you did just cause a panic in our household as I also have a fob watch with similar heritage and I just realised I hadn’t seen it since we moved house.

Fortunately my wife is better organised and was able to tell me exactly where it is.

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New old watch day

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