If you are going to play Holdsworth you'd better have decent chops

axisus · October 2023

Andre Nieri does! I found this quite mesmerising to watch close up.

Allan Holdsworth was such a unique guitarist, his thought processes and playing were like no-one else.

Note: DISCLAIMER - I'm not playing the exact same notes as Allan because I just can't play like him and I guess nobody does. I made this version of his iconic solo take over Gary Husband's song as a tribute because of his influence over my playing. Hope you enjoy

Winny_Pooh · October 2023

Interesting. I heard lots of Vai there too. I think the thing with Holdsworth that many miss is his wildness. Most technically accomplished guitarists are just much less daring and out there, like muzak to actual music.

GuyBoden · October 2023

Winny_Pooh said:

I think the thing with Holdsworth that many miss is his wildness. Most technically accomplished guitarists are just much less daring and out there, like muzak to actual music.

Allan Holdsworth was very harmonically original and advanced. (we are still trying to catch up to him.)

His finger stretches for chord voicings are beyond most guitarists. (including me.)

But, the beauty of his use of these chord voicings in his compositions is the main thing that completely captures me about his playing.

DrCornelius · October 2023

I know there are some big AH fans on here but personally I don’t get it. I like hard bop/free jazz - Eric Dolphy, Trane etc but when I listen to AH I’m always listening for a chord change where one of his lines resolves to something giving my brain some temporary resolution before another load of phrases come in. I don’t hear it though which means all my brain hears is a huge stream of random notes unlike the horn players I like where suddenly the chaos turns into clarity for a few bars before it veers off again

Litterick · October 2023

Too many notes. I keep listening, in the hope of an epiphany.

Philly_Q · October 2023

axisus said:

Note: DISCLAIMER - I'm not playing the exact same notes as Allan because I just can't play like him and I guess nobody does. I made this version of his iconic solo take over Gary Husband's song as a tribute because of his influence over my playing. Hope you enjoy

Well done @axisus, you're always so self-deprecating I didn't think you could play like this! And you look younger than I was expecting.

axisus · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

axisus said:

Note: DISCLAIMER - I'm not playing the exact same notes as Allan because I just can't play like him and I guess nobody does. I made this version of his iconic solo take over Gary Husband's song as a tribute because of his influence over my playing. Hope you enjoy

Well done @axisus, you're always so self-deprecating I didn't think you could play like this! And you look younger than I was expecting.

Ho ho!

uksaint7 · October 2023

DrCornelius said:

I know there are some big AH fans on here but personally I don’t get it. I like hard bop/free jazz - Eric Dolphy, Trane etc but when I listen to AH I’m always listening for a chord change where one of his lines resolves to something giving my brain some temporary resolution before another load of phrases come in. I don’t hear it though which means all my brain hears is a huge stream of random notes unlike the horn players I like where suddenly the chaos turns into clarity for a few bars before it veers off again

I’d recommend checking out music where he is playing on other people’s records where the changes (harmonic and rhythmic) aren’t so out there! The albums ‘Heavy Machinery’ by Anders & Jens Johannson or ‘Guaranteed’ by Level 42 for instance are great examples of his lead playing over more straight ahead rock & pop.

DrCornelius · October 2023

Fantastic - thanks , will have a listen

GuyBoden · October 2023

DrCornelius said:

I know there are some big AH fans on here but personally I don’t get it. I like hard bop/free jazz - Eric Dolphy, Trane etc but when I listen to AH I’m always listening for a chord change where one of his lines resolves to something giving my brain some temporary resolution before another load of phrases come in. I don’t hear it though which means all my brain hears is a huge stream of random notes unlike the horn players I like where suddenly the chaos turns into clarity for a few bars before it veers off again

Strange, that listening to Coltrane, Dolphy etc, that you still expect musical resolutions. Granted, the Tonal rules in western music conditions musical resolutions from an early age.

Check out the French music impressionists and their use of harmonic ambiguity and flirting with tonality, extended chords, use of modes, exotic scales or parallel motion. You might hear Allan Holdsworth's influence there.

Poboy · October 2023

Tried watching some live AH a few days ago on YouTube. Turned it off after a couple of minutes. Unlistenable.

Philly_Q · October 2023

A few days ago YouTube pointed me in the direction of some videos featuring Soft Machine. I have to say that, for me, this one with John Etheridge is more accessible than any Holdsworth clip I've seen.

prowla · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

A few days ago YouTube pointed me in the direction of some videos featuring Soft Machine. I have to say that, for me, this one with John Etheridge is more accessible than any Holdsworth clip I've seen.

Sporky · October 2023

There's a pub we pass on the way you the Devil's Duke that has a sign advertising "LAMB, BEEF, AND PORK CHOPS".

I've never had beef chops.

EricTheWeary · October 2023

Sporky said:

There's a pub we pass on the way you the Devil's Duke that has a sign advertising "LAMB, BEEF, AND PORK CHOPS".

I've never had beef chops.

T bone steak I believe and called Beef Chop by some. I guess every mammal/vertebrate has chops of some description. Obviously the late Alan Holdsworth did although probably his loved ones don't like to think of him that way.

Someone on here recommended a Holdsworth (an Holdsworth?) album a while ago and it had just the most horrible guitar sound, like a stylophone played by a cat. But not as fun as that sounds. I might give the @uksaint7 suggestions a go as he is clearly loved by some guitarists and maybe I'm missing out.

GuyBoden · October 2023

Listen to this rendition of Allan Holdsworth's House Of Mirrors by Derryl Gabel.

These are the harmonic progressions and chord voicings that I love about Allan Holdsworth's compositions.

It's not about the technical complexity, it's about the sound achieved using these wide chord voicings and harmonic voice leading.

GuyBoden · October 2023

DrCornelius · October 2023

I'm really glad you like it @GuyBoden - its great we don't like all the same stuff. It sounded like it was computer generated to me and lacking in any sense of melody. Maybe my aural palette isn't developed enough for this stuff !

JezWynd · October 2023

Philly_Q said:

A few days ago YouTube pointed me in the direction of some videos featuring Soft Machine. I have to say that, for me, this one with John Etheridge is more accessible than any Holdsworth clip I've seen.

And he has a decent guitar sound. So much of Hollingsworth stuff is locked in that 80's chorus on max tone that (for me) is hard to take after a few minutes.

GuyBoden · October 2023

JezWynd said:

Philly_Q said:

A few days ago YouTube pointed me in the direction of some videos featuring Soft Machine. I have to say that, for me, this one with John Etheridge is more accessible than any Holdsworth clip I've seen.

And he has a decent guitar sound. So much of Hollingsworth stuff is locked in that 80's chorus on max tone that (for me) is hard to take after a few minutes.

It's not chorus, he used up to 20 multi-tap delays at various settings simultaneously, but yes, that was his main sound.

Philly_Q · October 2023

GuyBoden said:
It's not chorus, he used up to 20 multi-tap delays at various settings simultaneously, but yes, that was his main sound.

Wow.

EricTheWeary · October 2023

I’ve been streaming various Holdsworth things this morning. My favourite things were absolutely the bass lines on Heavy Machinery.

But Holdsworth just has horrible (to me, obviously) flat guitar sounds. IIRC from guitar magazine interviews he wasn’t really interested in guitar it was just the thing that he found he could find notes on and he was more interested in complex harmony than in trying to be the next Hendrix. That’s to be applauded as it meant here was somebody trying to expand the vocabulary of the instrument but it gives him little point of connection with someone like me who likes the expressive element of electric guitar and the sound it makes. YouTube music suggested I would like to listen to some Guthrie Govan after. Now I’d normally run a mile from Guthrie’s solo work but it was like The Ramones in comparison and sounded like a guitar, amp and pedals. Also not tied to an era of grating synth sounds which is another thing that doesn’t help me like Holdsworth’s recordings.

steamabacus · October 2023

Accessible Holdsworth for me means Gazeuse by Gong.

Philly_Q · October 2023

steamabacus said:

Accessible Holdsworth for me means Gazeuse by Gong.

Also the first Tempest album.

CaseOfAce · October 2023

The first time I checked out Holdsworth I was surprised just how accessible it was. I didn't expect that.
The Metal Fatigue and Road Games albums aren't difficult get into if you have an open mind. Really. Almost pop songs - though of course this is jazz fusion - not Taylor Swift !! (if I fancy a drop of the hard stuff I check out his live stuff.. All Night Wrong etc...).

To me his solos make perfect sense - he doesn't just drop you in it with a million Coltrane notes a minute... there's a beginning, middle and end to them.. your milkman could hum part of his solos on Devil Takes The Hindmost, Panic Stations, Metal Fatigue.

Of course there's the sax / Coltrane thing at times, outside playing, barrage of notes etc... but always in the service of the changes...he was not just showing off his technique.
Stunning.

To me he was just on a different planet with his capability on the instrument - immediately recognisable and he's been more influential than you'd think.
Everyone on this forum (takes big breath ... ) has heard "his sound" on a record -
you know that massive worldwide number one Chesney Hawkes hit "The One and Only"? - the solo on that is Nik Kershaw very much showing his Holdsworth steals... the legato, phrasing and whammy bar technique all over it.

Eric Johnson's chorused, stretchy chord voicings - he's reaching for the uncommon chord - Holdsworth.

Francis Dunnery / It Bites used to do that chromatic legato thing - immediate Holdsworth.

Alan Murphy (first Go West album ) and on that Mike and Mechanics Silent Running hit - (Holdsworth was not a fan of that - he thought it was a pastiche of his style I once heard).

One of the regrets of my life is I didn't drive to see him and his band 40 miles up the road in the dead of winter one time. To have seen that mastery of the instrument up close would have been quite an experience.

west · October 2023

spot on case !

beed84 · October 2023

The beauty of Holdsworth's playing and approach to harmony is that it constantly sounds uncertain but not wrong, everything resolving in an unresolving way. His style challenges our familiar understanding of melody and harmony in a unique way, though I can understand it's not for everyone.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

If you are going to play Holdsworth you'd better have decent chops

Comments