Crude monitor system idea - mic into headphone amp, will it work?

thecolourbox · September 2023

Hi all, i'm playing piano at a pub tomorrow, they have an upright piano behind which they put a microphone into their internal PA so it plays through the speakers throughout the pub. it's quite a big pub across a couple of floors. no, i don't know why they didn't get a digital piano either.

Last time I played there it was obviously quite hard to hear it with the general Friday night noise of a busy hipster pub, I managed to hyper-focus in after a while but I had to play a bit louder than i'd normally do. There was also a strange chorussing effect from hearing the piano in front of me and the speaker on the stairs just to my left

I basically forgot about trying to work out some kind of monitoring until now. I was wondering if I took my own mic and stand, whether I'd be able to plug the mic straight into my little headphone amp and use that? I'm assuming it'll sound awful and probably still quiet without preamp etc.

The other option I think would be to take my own amp with a mic and try to position it so it's audible but also out of sight as much as possible. Using their PA system to run some kind of monitor from didn't seem very possible when I was there the last time, i should have looked into it sooner and worked it out as that would obviously be the best idea

thecolourbox · September 2023

Just tried it by tapping and clicking into the mic with earphones in, pretty sure it's going to be too quiet isn't it. Thought of a cheap cloudlifter clone to add some gain to it but of course they require phantom power so that's a no go as well. Will see what I can hack together!

Danny1969 · September 2023

It's not just the lack of pre amp it's the fact a headphone is amp is 2 single ended amplifiers with a common ground ... a microphone has a differential output ... so one ground and 2 signals of opposite polarity ... 180 degrees out of phase so it will sound like total shit and cancel it's self out to a large degree.

I would just listen to the piano ... mic'ing a piano to an acceptable standard isn't something you can do easily even if you have a pre amp and a dynamic mic .... you really need multiple mics and they need to be capable of a very wide frequency response.

thecolourbox · September 2023

Is that still the case if it's mono output which I think it is? Sorry, I'm not very technical (as is increasingly obvious).

I couldn't really hear the piano though so I was thinking that surely something would be better than nothing - I just need to be able to hear what i'm playing so i don't have to hammer the thing out as that's not my playing style and i don't like it when others do that (same when smashing out loud acoustic guitar strumming). I'm not looking to record it or anything like that, just to be able to hear the notes which share frequencies with the typical background noise of talking people in a pub. I have strange hearing which struggles with clashing frequencies

I might have to take my amp and position it to the side of me I think, I've looked into a few bits and bobs but none seem to be as good as a speaker angled up at me

jaymenon · September 2023

I've got this - that may work for you:

Extra-Stuff-December-22

steamabacus · September 2023

How about using your phone* to mic/record the piano and drive a headphone signal? Or a small portable digital recorder?

* I don't actually own a smartphone so I am assuming they have the ability to monitor what's being recorded from the headphone output. Do they have headphone outputs? I'm a bit of a luddite when it comes to these strange devices that have taken over most people's lives.

thecolourbox · September 2023

jaymenon said:

I've got this - that may work for you:

That kind of is what I have already, albeit I don't know if that one has more volume than mine - my one definitely wasn't loud enough straight from the mic.

I think I'm going to take a mic, stand and my normal amp with me as well as a few cables and my headphone amp, just in case I can rig something up.

Then my main issue will be if anybody comes over to talk to me and I jump out of my skin because i can't hear them

jaymenon · September 2023

There's a lot of volume on this one - I hardly use it, pretty much never gig and retiring shortly from my day job.

It's yours (or anyone else who wants it) for £23 delivered if you wish

BillDL · September 2023

Find a piece of cardboard slightly longer than the width of the piano and about 12" high, spraypaint it the same colour as the piano, lift the top lid of the piano, and wedge and gaffer tape the cardboard into it so that it's in a slight curve and leaning forward. Hey presto! A cheap parabolic sound reflector so you can hear the piano

thecolourbox · September 2023

BillDL said:

Find a piece of cardboard slightly longer than the width of the piano and about 12" high, spraypaint it the same colour as the piano, lift the top lid of the piano, and wedge and gaffer tape the cardboard into it so that it's in a slight curve and leaning forward. Hey presto! A cheap parabolic sound reflector so you can hear the piano

Haha Thanks I shall bear that in mind

shufflebeat · September 2023

I’ve observed a lot of drummers carrying little cheap mixers around with them to use as headphone amps.

Mixers are obviously designed for mic level signals but can usually cater for wide variation.

Some of the Yamaha mini-mixers (not the very small ones) have a simple compressor on the input which might be very useful in an unpredictable environment. Well set up that should offer some hearing protection and make the audio a little less fatiguing.

guitarmangler · October 2023

I’d use a boundary mic ( the piezo flat ones ) into a headphone amp. But, I’d they’re already micing it up, just split that into your headphone amp.

thecolourbox · October 2023

Thanks all for the suggestions, thoughts, and general feedback.
As it happens, the pub was actually a bit quieter than last time I played there, and I had the inspired idea of opening the lid which i couldn't do last time as there was stuff on top, so actually I could hear better and without having to resort to wearing my earplug things which help to calm background noise for me.

I was a bit late getting there because the traffic was horrific, so I only had about 15 mins to mess about before playing, but the mic into the headphone amp I have was not really loud enough there, and there was definitely no way to take a headphone line out from the PA system. Basically the pub has an enormous artificial tree with extremely bright pink spot lights shining up it, and that is located between the piano and the PA system box - so that makes it hard to access the PA without causing damage to your eyesight, and also the microphones which I had to set up myself this time as they were folded up out of the way.

I didn't have time to rig up my mic into my amplifier unfortunately, but as it was a bit quieter anyway it wasn't too bad with the extra volume from the opened lid.

I'll look into the various options listed above though and see what I can do - next playing there in November, but then also at least one Christmas run up gig where I imagine the volume of people will increase again back to summer levels

Thank you all

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Crude monitor system idea - mic into headphone amp, will it work?

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