Maybe I don't want my action so low???

stufisher · September 2023

For completeness and clarity to help those that are completely metric:

1 th	= 0.0254 mm
2 th	= 0.0508 mm
3 th	= 0.0762 mm
4 th	= 0.1016 mm
5 th	= 0.127 mm
6 th	= 0.1524 mm
7 th	= 0.1778 mm
8 th	= 0.2032 mm
9 th	= 0.2286 mm
10 th	= 0.254 mm

BillDL · September 2023

axisus said:

@stufisher I literally can't visualise any of that!?!? No wonder they invented millimetres!

Measuring and thinking in mm is usually how most people here compare and measure nut widths and string spacings because they are larger than action measurements and easy enough to see on a metric steel rule. The smallest increment on a metric steel rule is 0.5mm but it's quite hard to see the graduations, even in good light. When you're measuring action you aren't going to realistically be above 3mm. If you have a gauge or rule in 64ths" those are the only graduations, so you're just counting the number of lines, and given that spec for Fenders and Gibsons have usually always been given in 64ths it's most often easier to think of action as the number of lines on a 64ths rule eg. 5 on the bass and 3 on the treble (moderately high acoustic) or 4 on the bass and 2 on the treble (average electric). For neck relief more often than not this is given in 1/1000ths of an inch because feeler gauges come in those increments or mm. Personally I find it just as easy to measure action in mm or 64ths".

Philly_Q · September 2023

stufisher said:

For completeness and clarity to help those that are completely metric:

1 th = 0.0254 mm
2 th = 0.0508 mm
3 th = 0.0762 mm
4 th = 0.1016 mm
5 th = 0.127 mm
6 th = 0.1524 mm
7 th = 0.1778 mm
8 th = 0.2032 mm
9 th = 0.2286 mm
10 th = 0.254 mm

That's very helpful and thanks for it, but your "1th, 2th, 3th and 4th" of an inch are making my head explode, worse than misplaced apostrophes...

And now that I think about it, 0.254mm is one-hundredth of an inch, not one-tenth. Sorry.

Sassafras · September 2023

I've never used a ruler but at a guess I'd say at least 2mm on the treble side and 3mm on the bottom E. At the very least.

Jonathangus · September 2023

Philly_Q said:

stufisher said:

For completeness and clarity to help those that are completely metric:

1 thou = 0.0254 mm

2 thou = 0.0508 mm

3 thou = 0.0762 mm

4 thou = 0.1016 mm

5 thou = 0.127 mm

6 thou = 0.1524 mm

7 thou = 0.1778 mm

8 thou = 0.2032 mm

9 thou = 0.2286 mm

10 thou = 0.254 mm

That's very helpful and thanks for it, but your "1th, 2th, 3th and 4th" of an inch are making my head explode, worse than misplaced apostrophes...

And now that I think about it, 0.254mm is one-hundredth of an inch, not one-tenth. Sorry.

Fixed.

guitars4you · September 2023

ICBM said:

I don’t normally set them to those measurements - I set them to how the guitar plays, feels and sounds - but that’s what I then find if I check.

Never measured the height ever - like you I set them up so they feel right - IMO you’ll never get 2 guitars the same anyway but you’ll get them both to perform

I have minimal relief were possible but some guitars will tolerate a lower action and others won’t

I was working on a Heritage LP style the other day - couldn’t get it right - it was okay but I knew it should be better- Ended up fitting 11-49 gauge with a slightly higher action and now it works so much better - As I said not all guitars are equal and as such won’t all work with the same set up, action height and gauge of strings

Fishboy7 · September 2023

I've absolutely no idea what mm mine are set at - I just tweak until it feels right. I guess it's probably medium-ish action with 11s on Fender and 12s on Gibson scales.

I know when I've picked up other people's guitars with 9s on and a really low action, I found them completely unplayable. It's just whatever you're familiar with I guess.

Philly_Q · September 2023

Jonathangus said:

Philly_Q said:

stufisher said:

For completeness and clarity to help those that are completely metric:

1 thou = 0.0254 mm

2 thou = 0.0508 mm

3 thou = 0.0762 mm

4 thou = 0.1016 mm

5 thou = 0.127 mm

6 thou = 0.1524 mm

7 thou = 0.1778 mm

8 thou = 0.2032 mm

9 thou = 0.2286 mm

10 thou = 0.254 mm

That's very helpful and thanks for it, but your "1th, 2th, 3th and 4th" of an inch are making my head explode, worse than misplaced apostrophes...

And now that I think about it, 0.254mm is one-hundredth of an inch, not one-tenth. Sorry.

Fixed.

Well done. And apologies to @stufisher, "th" for thousandths isn't an abbreviation I've seen before.

FelineGuitars · September 2023

Some folks do have their strings too low to get the best out of their guitar sonically

I found out that years ago there is a small window of adjustment where the strings still feel low enough but have enough room to vibrate freely .

Obviously taking the strings higher still lets them ring freely but can feel too high for many players

We are always aiming for the best of both

Sporky · September 2023

I like the rattly pinky noise you get from having an action so low the strings run along all the frets.

Philly_Q · September 2023

Sporky said:

I like the rattly pinky noise you get from having an action so low the strings run along all the frets.

I remember watching an old YouTube video of somebody trying to shred as fast as humanly possible. He had an amp, of course, but there was also a mic picking up the acoustic sound of the strings. I've never heard so much string buzz.

CavemanGrogg · September 2023

axisus said:

I generally like to get the action on my guitars relatively low, but here's the thing. Relating to my recent 'scalloping a fretboard' thread - I bought a cheap neck and scalloped the top 8 frets or so. I fitted it to one of my guitars for a tryout. Initially the action was sky high so I stuck an expensive shim in (Cornflakes are £2.75 these days!). The action was still - to use a technical term, mad high, but I just wanted to have a go and I couldn't be arsed with all that taking the strings off again.

Well, I liked the scallops, and the neck generally felt nice to play. Enjoyably so! After a day or two I stuck another shim in to get the action lower, but weirdly it just didn't play as nicely. It was no longer playing like butter, more like treacle, or maybe porridge that doesn't have enough milk in, but I digress ...

So a day later I changed it again back to the original setup. Woah! the magic is back! This was actually unsurprising from a logical point of view but I'm just trying to enhance a rather dull story.

Well, having had a little fun with the mistress, I went back to my good lady and number one guitar. That kind of fails as my guitar is most definitely not female, it's just wood and bits, but having started the sex analogy I kind of felt obliged to run with it. Note to self - avoid dubious analogies. So yeah, picked up no 1 strat and it just felt a little weird, a little low on the action front (Own up - who was that at the back saying just like your sex life???). It just seemed a tad 'dead' to play in comparison.

So the next logical step is to raise the action on my strat and see what I think. I'll probably have a go later today and report back.
Strat action is probably about 1.2mm at the 12th fret
Scalloped neck about 2.5mm at the 12th fret

The higher action just feels better for bends and vibrato*, also the notes are ringing out quite nicely. I will be interested to see if it 'improves' the strat in my eyes, or better still, in my hands.

*It should be noted that my vibrato on bent notes is bloody awful, but it really does feel easier.

Any comments on action in general feel free to toss em in!

That's your problem right there, everybody knows that shims made from ALDI cerial boxes sound and feel a shit load better than those made from Kellog's boxes. The tone and feel is all in the cardboard.

ICBM · September 2023

CavemanGrogg said:

That's your problem right there, everybody knows that shims made from ALDI cerial boxes sound and feel a shit load better than those made from Kellog's boxes. The tone and feel is all in the cardboard.

One thing I have genuinely noticed is that cardboard shims - cereal packet or otherwise - sound better than the posh tapered wood shims which give "full wood-to-wood contact to maximise vibration transfer and avoid loss of tone" or some such other bollocks... I've removed several of those from guitars when setting them up - because they're only available in a few angles, which are usually either too steep or not steep enough - and every single one has sounded better when re-shimmed with cardboard or a simple piece of wood veneer across the end of the pocket.

Lewy · September 2023

Lower the better for me these days - my highest is my YJM strat at a hair over 1mm. That still gives me a 3 semitone bend high up the neck on the high E without choking (there's a bit of a buzz at the top of the bend but not audible through amp) - that's on a 9.5" radius. Lowest is my CS strat at around .75 mm but that has a flatter radius. All with 8-46 strings and played with a 1.5mm pick.

One thing though is that since I got some Waza Airs I never practice unplugged, so I'm not hearing whether anything is buzzing or rattling acoustically and basically I don't care if it is as long as it's not getting amplified.

Moloch · September 2023

imalrightjack said:

Sassafras said:

I hit the strings hard so I like a bit of clearance for the strings to vibrate.
I'd say 1.2 mm is ridiculously low.

Wowsers. I aim for 1mm. Some of mine are set at less than that (I think one is around 0.5mm), although could do with coming up a touch.

Same as that for me. My general rule is I'll have it as low as I can get it without choking and will accept a touch of rattle on the low E as a trade-off.

Mike58 · October 2023

3 of my Jap Fenders are 7.5 radius and consequently I raise the action up a bit to avoid a big bend choke.
Guess what, it makes bending so much easier when the bent string goes under the adjoining string instead of you actually pushing the 3rd and 4th string on a 2nd string bend.
What I mean by that is that 3rd and 4th strings go over ( above ) your bending finger nail and are then only lifted up during the bend rather than pushed to the side.

elstoof · October 2023

Noisy though

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Maybe I don't want my action so low???

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