Paper or poly cone speaker?

beed84 · September 2023

So I'm looking at getting either one of these for my SF Champ:

https://jupiter-speakers.com/collections/alnico/products/8sa-8-15w-vintage-american-small-alnico-guitar-speaker

https://jupiter-speakers.com/collections/alnico/products/copy-of-8sa-8-25w-vintage-american-small-alnico-guitar-speaker

The paper cone is what I'm leaning towards as it's rated at 15w, which is roughly twice the power of the amp. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's the general rule of thumb when matching a speaker to an amp.

I'll be mostly playing clean and won't be driving the amp too hard, but there will be occasions when I'll want to use drive pedals too.
My question is: because of the delicate nature of the material used for the paper cone version, will using a OD or gain pedal be too much therefore causing damage to its elements?

Any help before I pull the trigger will be much appreciated.

(Side question: I'm guessing 8ohm speakers are a no go? I ask because a bunch of second hand 8 inch Eminence speakers have come up on eBay and are a bit more affordable, albeit not alnico.)

Power_Freak · September 2023

beed84 said:

So I'm looking at getting either one of these for my SF Champ:

https://jupiter-speakers.com/collections/alnico/products/8sa-8-15w-vintage-american-small-alnico-guitar-speaker

https://jupiter-speakers.com/collections/alnico/products/copy-of-8sa-8-25w-vintage-american-small-alnico-guitar-speaker

The paper cone is what I'm leaning towards as it's rated at 15w, which is roughly twice the power of the amp. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that's the general rule of thumb when matching a speaker to an amp.

I'll be mostly playing clean and won't be driving the amp too hard, but there will be occasions when I'll want to use drive pedals too.
My question is: because of the delicate nature of the material used for the paper cone version, will using a OD or gain pedal be too much therefore causing damage to its elements?

Any help before I pull the trigger will be much appreciated.

(Side question: I'm guessing 8ohm speakers are a no go? I ask because a bunch of second hand 8 inch Eminence speakers have come up on eBay and are a bit more affordable, albeit not alnico.)

If you're within the power rating you'll likely be fine paper or otherwise. Paper cones sound a bit different when they distort, some really like that sound, some dislike it. If you have the original speaker it'll likely be a paper cone (I'm not super familiar with SF era though so could be wrong)

You'll want to replace the speaker with similar ohmage - a stock SF champ should be around 4ohm from memory. If a transformer has been changed it might take something different,

Winny_Pooh · September 2023

They both have a 14oz magnet so the 25watt speaker will just be a bit tighter sounding when driven hard.

Fwiw, do the midrange/raw mod (lift a bass pot lug and have a different value on a switch iirc). It made my champ way more fun.

ICBM · September 2023

Paper cone is the classic for guitar amps. But do you mean the voice coil former?

Don’t use an 8-ohm speaker with a Champ unless it has an output transformer designed for it - 3.2 ohm or 4 ohm only.

beed84 · September 2023

Power_Freak said:

If you're within the power rating you'll likely be fine paper or otherwise. Paper cones sound a bit different when they distort, some really like that sound, some dislike it. If you have the original speaker it'll likely be a paper cone (I'm not super familiar with SF era though so could be wrong)

You'll want to replace the speaker with similar ohmage - a stock SF champ should be around 4ohm from memory. If a transformer has been changed it might take something different,

Winny_Pooh said:

They both have a 14oz magnet so the 25watt speaker will just be a bit tighter sounding when driven hard.

Fwiw, do the midrange/raw mod (lift a bass pot lug and have a different value on a switch iirc). It made my champ way more fun.

Okay, that's useful to know. I'm now thinking the ordinary coned speaker might be better in the long run – I'd be a bit bummed to have a speaker that sounds great clean but not so great overdriven. Food for thought. The mod sounds interesting too but I don't know if I'd have the guts to tamper with the circuitry. Maybe if I had another Champ spare I'd try it!

ICBM said:

Paper cone is the classic for guitar amps. But do you mean the voice coil former?

Don’t use an 8-ohm speaker with a Champ unless it has an output transformer designed for it - 3.2 ohm or 4 ohm only.

I think so. All I know from my YouTube research is that paper coil was used in the early days until they realised it started to burn when driven too hard. I'm hardly the most aggressive player in the world but I'd be worried to put an overdrive pedal into it and it suddenly started to smoke!

I'll take the advice on the ohmage question. I think I was trying to force an idea that in reality I know won't work.

Thanks for everyones input, it's really helped in making my decision

Dave_Mc · September 2023

ICBM said:

But do you mean the voice coil former?

That's what I was thinking. I could be wrong about this, but I think the Jupiters are rated for a lower wattage when they have a paper voice coil former- in other words they've taken that into account when rating them, so as long as they're high enough for your amp, you'd hopefully be ok. Or you could contact them to check it'd be safe with your champ.

There's a good (sponsored) vid on Youtube (you've probably already come across it) where Jack Fossett compares a couple of Jupiters with the different voice coils.

ICBM · September 2023

Dave_Mc said:

I think the Jupiters are rated for a lower wattage when they have a paper voice coil former- in other words they've taken that into account when rating them

Yes, exactly.

A 15W speaker is fine in a Champ.

beed84 · September 2023

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I think the Jupiters are rated for a lower wattage when they have a paper voice coil former- in other words they've taken that into account when rating them

Yes, exactly.

A 15W speaker is fine in a Champ.

Although I understand it will work in the Champ and why they've rated it lower than the 25w version, I suppose I'm concerned I will potentially cause it damage if I slam it with an overdrive/gain pedal. Or am I being a complete noob?

beed84 · September 2023

Dave_Mc said:

ICBM said:

But do you mean the voice coil former?

That's what I was thinking. I could be wrong about this, but I think the Jupiters are rated for a lower wattage when they have a paper voice coil former- in other words they've taken that into account when rating them, so as long as they're high enough for your amp, you'd hopefully be ok. Or you could contact them to check it'd be safe with your champ.

There's a good (sponsored) vid on Youtube (you've probably already come across it) where Jack Fossett compares a couple of Jupiters with the different voice coils.

Good idea. I've contacted Jupiter to see what they say and whether or not the 15w will meet my needs overall. I did see the Jack Fossett video. I'll watch it again though as I've probably missed something.

ICBM · September 2023

Champs are only 6W. Even fully overdriven into a square wave it can’t put out more than 12W. OK, there are sometimes other factors in speaker damage, but I would be happy putting any 15W speaker into one.

beed84 · September 2023

ICBM said:

Champs are only 6W. Even fully overdriven into a square wave it can’t put out more than 12W. OK, there are sometimes other factors in speaker damage, but I would be happy putting any 15W speaker into one.

This is also helpful to know, and I'm grateful for your experience. Although I'm still undecided what to go for, it's reassuring to know I can choose the 15W version without fear of it going kaput under normal use. Once I've received my chosen speaker and have fitted it, I'll update the thread in a couple of weeks to let you know my verdict.

Dave_Mc · September 2023

ICBM said:

Dave_Mc said:

I think the Jupiters are rated for a lower wattage when they have a paper voice coil former- in other words they've taken that into account when rating them

Yes, exactly.

A 15W speaker is fine in a Champ.

That's what I'd have thought, but I didn't want to say for sure just in case it wasn't! I've had the little 15W
Jensen Mod 6" in my Fame Tube 5 (more or less a champ) and it was fine. (Currently got slightly higher wattage speakers in my low wattage amps but that's for tone rather than power-handling.)

beed84 said:
Good idea. I've contacted Jupiter to see what they say and whether or not the 15w will meet my needs overall. I did see the Jack Fossett video. I'll watch it again though as I've probably missed something.

The paper ones seem to be a bit brighter, at least judging by the video- I've never tried the exact same model head-to-head (you can only really do that with Jupiter I think? Most other companies don't seem to let you specify the voice coil former), but the couple of paper voice coil speakers I have do seem pretty bright up top (granted, a ton of things affect the tone).

Will be interested to hear what Jupiter says and what you think of the speaker when you decide what to go for.

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Paper or poly cone speaker?

Comments