Anyone had a guitar Plek'd by Andertons?

Kebabkid · September 2023

Fingers657 said:

Kebabkid said:

Fingers657 said:

Andertons have only recently got a Plek machine.
I don’t think these machines are expensive to buy so dealers charge £150 or more to pay for the things.
Personally my view would be charge £50/£60 a Plek and more people would use the service.
One of Peach guitars big selling points is every guitar they sell is given a good going over before leaving their warehouse.
Ive had a few really awfully set up guitars from them and stopped using them because of it.

I've looked about on sites and one says in Germany it's about £80K for the machine with training & another says $100,000 in the US.

Sorry I meant to say I don’t think these machines are cheap and quite expensive to buy.

Got you

jca74 · September 2023

£80k? I expect @HarrySeven has enough instruments to justify the cost...

flying_pie · September 2023

axisus said:

Nerine said:

flying_pie said:

I'm incredibly sceptical about Plek. Of course there's a measurable difference. That can't be denied but I am doubtful of how that translates in the real world. You can say the same thing about 240bpm and 240.35bpm. They are measurably different yet no human can tell the difference just from listening. Just because something can be more precisely measured doesn't mean it has to be.

I'll happily revise my opinion when there are lots of videos where someone tries, say, 10 guitars having never played them before and correctly distinguishes all the Pleked ones from the well set up ones. Until then I'll view it as another guitar industry con

Con?

What?

I think it's a con in that 'Plekking' is not worth £180. You are not paying for £180 of work, you are helping to pay off an expensive bit of kit.

It's not just paying off the machine but it must also a nice way off making more money than you can from a regular setup. I doubt stores would spend the outlay if there wasn't a decent return for them. One also can't help cynically thinking it's a good way for a large store to take market share away from independent techs by creating the illusion that this more expensive service will result in bigger gainz for the player.

Before Plek existed it was still possible to get an excellent setup but now we're being told that's apparently not good enough and there's a ridiculously pricey way that's microscopically more precise.

It seems like paying for a Red Bull F1 aerodynamics workover for your family estate car because you've been told it will make it better. Not necessary and it sounds to me to be a complete waste of money. That's why I vote it as a con.

The very fact that someone here had it done and tells us it magically gave chords a more visceral growl effectively confirms... yeah. Let's just leave it there.

Moloch · September 2023

There is a massive difference between a 'con' and a specific and comparatively expensive premium service. Plek is the latter. You pay your money, you take your choice. I'll also shed very few tears for a great many 'independent techs' (though not all), as while there are many excellent ones out there (and I have the luxury of knowing one), there are also a lot of absolute chancers who barely know how to set a floating tremolo, but brand themselves as a qualified tech. Factor in the often laughable and unprofessional working practices that seem to pervade a large section of the industry, sometimes including those who deliver a good end result, and it becomes hard to sympathise.

The truth is that, like a lot of things in the guitar game, there are trades associated with it that have been allowed to abuse people's confidence for years. Techs who don't give time frames, aren't insured and often don't actually know what they're doing. Guitar teachers who only teach kids half a song, so they have to pay for another lesson to learn the rest. Etc, etc, etc. We've all been around this business for long enough to have encountered, or at least heard of such people and now technology is showing them up, with better teachers going online, either via conferencing apps or YouTube, and equipment offering reliable premium services for the instruments themselves.

Now, whenever it's not something I can sort myself, I will still take my guitars to the local guy who I trust and who has done good work for me in the past. If I lived closer to Andertons or Charlie Chandler's and needed a refret though, I would probably take it in for a Plek job. Why? Because the one guitar that I own that was Pleked in the factory remains the only one that I have never, ever had a single choke on (and I play with my action mega-LOW). Basically the strings are either on the frets and unuseable, or they're up enough to be clear and the whole fretboard rings out. Nothing is uneven. There are no frets that are even a tiny smidge higher than the ones next to it. Personally I'd pay to get the same again, if I was dealing with a 'keeper'.

TL;DR: Go with the service that suits you and your budget. But as for it being a 'con', it's John Suhr and Charlie Chandler vs sceptical luddites. Gee, that's a tough one. I'm going to have to sleep on it before I pick a side.

Woodandwires · September 2023

Whilst taking away work from actual human beings is against my better judgement. It's a service being offered, that doesn't take holidays, need pension payments, goes sick ( presuming it's reliable) is a successful marketing tool offering a premium service to customers. So what's not to like for a big business. I have two experiences of "pleked" guitars and both have been excellent.
And as said previously, if it's good enough for Chandler and Suhr then that settles it. I don't live near Gulidford or London so it's an irrelevance to me. So my guitars go to Angela Arnott (Guitar Angel, 42nd Street Guitars) and they have always been spot on.

TheBigDipper · September 2023

Has anyone else considered that Andertons may have installed a Plek machine, but that the person operating it has been working with Plek for years, knows what they're doing and only works for Andertons once a week - just doing Plek work?

It's how I'd start up a Plek service. And I'd have one of my permies looking over their shoulder as they worked.

abw1989 · September 2023

I'll just wait until Harley Benton bring out their own version of a Plek machine for £149 and get one of my own.

Sassafras · September 2023

It's been rumoured that Andertons' plek machine was made by Victory Amps. I think I saw a youtube vid all about it.

DefaultM · September 2023

Nerine said:

Charlie Chandler has Plek’d a couple of my guitars and they have both been excellent. Very, very true instruments afterwards. I’ve found the way chords ring to have more of a visceral growl to them after Plek-ing. Probably because they are more interval-perfect.

Not sure how Andertons would fare, though. The machine is only as good as the operator.

If your frets have dents in them then a proper fret level from anyone is going to improve intonation. I don't see how one from plek would do anything to make the intervals more perfect? It's taking height from them, not changing their positions like a true temperament neck.

DefaultM · September 2023

The most popular tech on here seems to be Feline, and on his website it says £130 for a fret level and set up. If the Plek is £180 what is that extra £50 getting you?
I get mine done by someone just as good as Feline and I've got a Plek'd guitar. There is absolutely no way you're playing them blindfolded and being able to tell which is which. They're just as good as each other.

If you have access to a great tech I dont see any reason to pay the extra for Plek. It's a machine that gives great benefit to the shop that's bought it, and the customer pays extra to cover their costs of having bought it.

Nerine · September 2023

flying_pie said:

axisus said:

Nerine said:

flying_pie said:

I'm incredibly sceptical about Plek. Of course there's a measurable difference. That can't be denied but I am doubtful of how that translates in the real world. You can say the same thing about 240bpm and 240.35bpm. They are measurably different yet no human can tell the difference just from listening. Just because something can be more precisely measured doesn't mean it has to be.

I'll happily revise my opinion when there are lots of videos where someone tries, say, 10 guitars having never played them before and correctly distinguishes all the Pleked ones from the well set up ones. Until then I'll view it as another guitar industry con

Con?

What?

I think it's a con in that 'Plekking' is not worth £180. You are not paying for £180 of work, you are helping to pay off an expensive bit of kit.

It's not just paying off the machine but it must also a nice way off making more money than you can from a regular setup. I doubt stores would spend the outlay if there wasn't a decent return for them. One also can't help cynically thinking it's a good way for a large store to take market share away from independent techs by creating the illusion that this more expensive service will result in bigger gainz for the player.

Before Plek existed it was still possible to get an excellent setup but now we're being told that's apparently not good enough and there's a ridiculously pricey way that's microscopically more precise.

It seems like paying for a Red Bull F1 aerodynamics workover for your family estate car because you've been told it will make it better. Not necessary and it sounds to me to be a complete waste of money. That's why I vote it as a con.

The very fact that someone here had it done and tells us it magically gave chords a more visceral growl effectively confirms... yeah. Let's just leave it there.

Yeah. It was me that said that.

My Suhr Alt T had it done. It has Thornbuckers in it. The guitar sounded a lot more true after plek-ing than prior. It does sound different because of this. A similar thing happened with a PRS I used to own.

So what does it “effectively confirm” mate?

Not sure how you can have an opinion on the above to be honest, because you’ve clearly never had it done and think (wrongly) it’s a con.

Do you know how a Plek machine works and how involved the process is? If not, I suggest you watch Rhett Shulls (or similar) video on it. It’s not money for old rope. It still takes someone that knows what they are doing. Personally, I’m happy for Charlie Chandler to do mine - because they know what they’re doing. Andertons/Peach, no idea. Dunno who operates the machine.

Saying it’s a con makes you look pretty foolish, when there are literally loads of people in this thread saying how good it has been for them.

thomasross20 · September 2023

I need to read through this thread but I'm just thinking... my OM02 acoustic needs new frets in some years. Prior to that needs stone & crown (or whatever you call it). It has a compound radius fretboard so I ASSUME that the frets are shaped differently according to the different radius as you move along the fretboard. Is that correct?

Would be good to hear from Feline on this matter, in general. I have no idea whether it'd be best to get it done by plek or by hand.

DefaultM · September 2023

Nerine said:

flying_pie said:

axisus said:

Nerine said:

flying_pie said:

I'm incredibly sceptical about Plek. Of course there's a measurable difference. That can't be denied but I am doubtful of how that translates in the real world. You can say the same thing about 240bpm and 240.35bpm. They are measurably different yet no human can tell the difference just from listening. Just because something can be more precisely measured doesn't mean it has to be.

I'll happily revise my opinion when there are lots of videos where someone tries, say, 10 guitars having never played them before and correctly distinguishes all the Pleked ones from the well set up ones. Until then I'll view it as another guitar industry con

Con?

What?

I think it's a con in that 'Plekking' is not worth £180. You are not paying for £180 of work, you are helping to pay off an expensive bit of kit.

It's not just paying off the machine but it must also a nice way off making more money than you can from a regular setup. I doubt stores would spend the outlay if there wasn't a decent return for them. One also can't help cynically thinking it's a good way for a large store to take market share away from independent techs by creating the illusion that this more expensive service will result in bigger gainz for the player.

Before Plek existed it was still possible to get an excellent setup but now we're being told that's apparently not good enough and there's a ridiculously pricey way that's microscopically more precise.

It seems like paying for a Red Bull F1 aerodynamics workover for your family estate car because you've been told it will make it better. Not necessary and it sounds to me to be a complete waste of money. That's why I vote it as a con.

The very fact that someone here had it done and tells us it magically gave chords a more visceral growl effectively confirms... yeah. Let's just leave it there.

Yeah. It was me that said that.

My Suhr Alt T had it done. It has Thornbuckers in it. The guitar sounded a lot more true after plek-ing than prior. It does sound different because of this. A similar thing happened with a PRS I used to own.

So what does it “effectively confirm” mate?

Not sure how you can have an opinion on the above to be honest, because you’ve clearly never had it done and think (wrongly) it’s a con.

Do you know how a Plek machine works and how involved the process is? If not, I suggest you watch Rhett Shulls (or similar) video on it. It’s not money for old rope. It still takes someone that knows what they are doing. Personally, I’m happy for Charlie Chandler to do mine - because they know what they’re doing. Andertons/Peach, no idea. Dunno who operates the machine.

Saying it’s a con makes you look pretty foolish, when there are literally loads of people in this thread saying how good it has been for them.

The plek machine isn't a con in itself, it does just as good as a great tech. They're saying that the con is pretending it's some magic thing that is worth more money to the customer, when really that extra money is just for the shop to pay the costs of having the Plek machine.

flying_pie · September 2023

DefaultM said:

Nerine said:

Yeah. It was me that said that.

My Suhr Alt T had it done. It has Thornbuckers in it. The guitar sounded a lot more true after plek-ing than prior. It does sound different because of this. A similar thing happened with a PRS I used to own.

So what does it “effectively confirm” mate?

Not sure how you can have an opinion on the above to be honest, because you’ve clearly never had it done and think (wrongly) it’s a con.

Do you know how a Plek machine works and how involved the process is? If not, I suggest you watch Rhett Shulls (or similar) video on it. It’s not money for old rope. It still takes someone that knows what they are doing. Personally, I’m happy for Charlie Chandler to do mine - because they know what they’re doing. Andertons/Peach, no idea. Dunno who operates the machine.

Saying it’s a con makes you look pretty foolish, when there are literally loads of people in this thread saying how good it has been for them.
The plek machine isn't a con in itself, it does just as good as a great tech. They're saying that the con is pretending it's some magic thing that is worth more money to the customer, when really that extra money is just for the shop to pay the costs of having the Plek machine.

@Nesrine - I have seen those videos. I do know how the process works. And I'll explain why I still think the process is a con. You seem it's all down to tolerance. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

A Plek machine shows a good tech does a good job of setting up a guitar. But now we're being told that the good job the tech did is not quite good enough so it needs redone and costs more so it makes extra money for the store and the Plek company, as well as perhaps cynically taking away market share from the good local techs.

Consider the precision of the measurements that the Plek process now claims needs to be rectified - that's not something the human body can't easily tolerate. FFS lots of us can go easily between playing guitar, bass and ukulele, never mind swap between guitars with different scale lengths, string gauges and fret wires gauge without difficulty. Similarly nobody can tell the difference between absolutely perfect pitch and a fraction of a percent out. But the Plek process tells us it can fix these ultramicroscopic issues that we now apparently need to have fixed.

If you wanted to you could spend money to get aerospace engineers to build your garden shed within incredibly accurate tolerances but it's unnecessary as a decent joiner or DIY dad could do a good enough job. That's the essence of my point. You've bought some lovely guitars, had work done on them, are enjoying the results and that's great. I'm just disagreeing that Plek is playing as big a part in that as you think it is. And just because other people are buying into the claims doesn't mean it's true.

I'll look forward to the day that people can reliably tell when their Pleked guitars have reverted to "good tech non Pleked" levels of fret variability through environmental change/wear/etc... but that will never happen. By the time we realise we need work done on our guitars the changes are miles bigger than the Plek v tech variance that the machine is more than capable of measuring.

And, sorry, but I found the notion of visceral growl relating to intonation to be Tufnell-esque and it did make me smile. Following that logic pianos or harps should be the most viscerally growly instruments around and I think we can all agree that's not the case.

Nerine · September 2023

flying_pie said:

DefaultM said:

Nerine said:

Yeah. It was me that said that.

My Suhr Alt T had it done. It has Thornbuckers in it. The guitar sounded a lot more true after plek-ing than prior. It does sound different because of this. A similar thing happened with a PRS I used to own.

So what does it “effectively confirm” mate?

Not sure how you can have an opinion on the above to be honest, because you’ve clearly never had it done and think (wrongly) it’s a con.

Do you know how a Plek machine works and how involved the process is? If not, I suggest you watch Rhett Shulls (or similar) video on it. It’s not money for old rope. It still takes someone that knows what they are doing. Personally, I’m happy for Charlie Chandler to do mine - because they know what they’re doing. Andertons/Peach, no idea. Dunno who operates the machine.

Saying it’s a con makes you look pretty foolish, when there are literally loads of people in this thread saying how good it has been for them.
The plek machine isn't a con in itself, it does just as good as a great tech. They're saying that the con is pretending it's some magic thing that is worth more money to the customer, when really that extra money is just for the shop to pay the costs of having the Plek machine.

@Nesrine - I have seen those videos. I do know how the process works. And I'll explain why I still think the process is a con. You seem it's all down to tolerance. It's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

A Plek machine shows a good tech does a good job of setting up a guitar. But now we're being told that the good job the tech did is not quite good enough so it needs redone and costs more so it makes extra money for the store and the Plek company, as well as perhaps cynically taking away market share from the good local techs.

Consider the precision of the measurements that the Plek process now claims needs to be rectified - that's not something the human body can't easily tolerate. FFS lots of us can go easily between playing guitar, bass and ukulele, never mind swap between guitars with different scale lengths, string gauges and fret wires gauge without difficulty. Similarly nobody can tell the difference between absolutely perfect pitch and a fraction of a percent out. But the Plek process tells us it can fix these ultramicroscopic issues that we now apparently need to have fixed.

If you wanted to you could spend money to get aerospace engineers to build your garden shed within incredibly accurate tolerances but it's unnecessary as a decent joiner or DIY dad could do a good enough job. That's the essence of my point. You've bought some lovely guitars, had work done on them, are enjoying the results and that's great. I'm just disagreeing that Plek is playing as big a part in that as you think it is. And just because other people are buying into the claims doesn't mean it's true.

I'll look forward to the day that people can reliably tell when their Pleked guitars have reverted to "good tech non Pleked" levels of fret variability through environmental change/wear/etc... but that will never happen. By the time we realise we need work done on our guitars the changes are miles bigger than the Plek v tech variance that the machine is more than capable of measuring.

And, sorry, but I found the notion of visceral growl relating to intonation to be Tufnell-esque and it did make me smile. Following that logic pianos or harps should be the most viscerally growly instruments around and I think we can all agree that's not the case.

The guitars I’ve had Plek’d were superior afterwards.

I’ve not said anywhere a competent tech couldn’t achieve results that were equally as usable.

You’re straw-manning me with the piano argument.

I don’t want to go into detail here but a guitar that tunes properly and rings true sounds more powerful than one that doesn’t. I’m not sure how you can argue that. Whether you like them or loathe them, Nickelback records personify this. The guitars are so well tuned, they have a throat about them. The midrange character is completely different. There’s no warbling or beating between notes that are cents out with each other.

If you can’t hear the difference between an open G5 chord and a properly in tune open G5 chord on a properly sorted guitar (it’s subtle in some cases) then that’s your issue.

It’s one of my litmus tests when evaluating a guitar. If a G5 sounds shit, or I can’t get it to ring true with any amount of tuning, I don’t buy the guitar.

The Suhr was a little different in that it was close enough for me to know (from previous experience) a Plek would just be that extra 5%.

You’re also ignoring the type of guitar and its bridge/saddle arrangement. Some guitars might not benefit much from a Plek. Especially ones with individually adjustable saddles. Guitars that have less adjustability, would probably benefit a lot from the increased accuracy a Plek can provide. My Suhr for example has a vintage style (albeit compensated) 3 barrel saddle.

Anyway, I’m done here now. You think Plekking is a con. I don’t. I’ve been very happy with the £150 I spent to have it done, and it’s been more than worth it to me and I’d recommend it to anyone based on my experience of it.

Dan_Halen · September 2023

Not really sure what the issue is. It's not like every guitar shop in the UK is suddenly going to have one of these and, even if a couple more still crop up, it's hardly going to take work away from the guys who are really good. Maybe you just want a tweak rather than the full fret job so you'd be daft to get the whole thing done. Unless a plek machine can learn to solder, perform a refret, refinish a body, repair a snapped neck or any of the huge list of tasks those guys can perform to an incredible standard it's not going to put anyone out of work. If some of the useless chancers that call themselves techs/luthiers whilst basically blagging it lose a small percentage of their work then I won't lose any sleep.

Maybe you don't live near someone who you know can do a great job? Could post perhaps but no-one really wants to unnecessarily ship their pride and joy backwards and forwards? Maybe the local guy is rammed and you want it done soon? Don't know what the issue is with now being able to get a perfect fret level performed by one of the big stores who are considered reputable.

I understand the point in principle but seems more like just that, a point of principle rather than a real problem. A plek is an option to give you a perfect fret level but costs a premium because the machine is bloody expensive. Doesn't seem particularly out there to me. Surely it's up to the individuals to decide if it's a worthwhile investment as it's hardly compulsory? If places that plek start pushing it as 'the only way to get it done right' then I'd take issue with that but it's not currently the case - it's simply an option you can take or leave.

CHRISB50 · September 2023

Sassafras said:

It's been rumoured that Andertons' plek machine was made by Victory Amps. I think I saw a youtube vid all about it.

Yeah I was waiting for the Lee Anderton has shares in Plek expose, then the ensuing pile on.

FelineGuitars · September 2023

The Plek is a fascinating and useful tool, and is in it’s most basic description a CNC fret levelling and crowning machine.

It is useful in the same way that a CNC router or a laser cutter is useful.

It can let the lesser skilled worker complete a task that is otherwise outside of their skillset, which is why it has been a real boon in guitar factories like Gibson etc

It is however even better in the hands of a skilled technician who has learnt to master it’s features, and I think that someone who knows how to get the best out of a set-up any way and could if the wished modify a plek profile in the software where needed could get great results out of one.
I think that getting the best out of a Plek process can involve a good or great tech doing a little aftercare on the guitar - I recall Charlie Chandler offering a “humanising the Plek “ additional service back in the day and I see that as where it all comes together

I have often looked at the benefit of owning one (or it owning me looking at the cost) and if funds and workshop space were plentiful I would have one in a heartbeat, along with a laser cutter, and a CNC machine

But when I looked at the cost of Plek ownership years ago it was:

1) £90k to buy it

2) A monthly maintenance fee

3) a percentage cost for each guitar that you put through the machine

So it added up to a LOT of money and ongoing costs too

So I had a long conversation with Dan Erlewine (many of you will know who he is as the head R&D guy for StewMac) who has been a guide and mentor to me in many ways, and we have been friends since 1996

I quizzed him as he had a Plek as well as having developed the Erlewine neck jig for accurate fret levelling.

His advice to me (with him knowing my work and that I have had several of his neck jigs over the years and gotten used to getting the best out of that system) is that he didn’t feel that it would necessarily raise my game or get better results other than save me from continued RSI from fret crowning.

He thought I would enjoy it and would have fun using it, but not necessarily get better results than I or any of the guys that I had trained would get.

I looked at the cost and decided getting that another qualified trainee to join our team and to intensively train to do the job would be a better option for me, and of course they also can do so much more than just level frets etc

Money no object would I own one - you bet!

Is it a con?

Nope but as a machine with a huge capital outlay to do one specific task then a business that gets one you have to find a way to recoup that investment over the lifespan of the machine. lets say that the machine will last 8-10 years

Lets say that you charge £50 upcharge to have the task done via the Plek, and assuming having the “human aftercare option”.

That means you would need a MINIMUM of 1800 Plek jobs - maybe more if you factor in the % fee and the monthly maintenance - so like 2000 Plek fret dresses.

Weekly we do maybe 3-6 full fret dresses and refrets as opposed to a Skim and fallaway (which we seem to do more often as a way to simply get a better basic set-up), so based on that turnoverit would take between 6-12 years of Plek use to simply BREAK EVEN on that investment.

You would have to advertise the heck out of it to get those numbers up to get to a point where it was a profitable move.

If you were a major retailer and offered it as an fee payable upgrade on guitars you are selling then I can see it making more sense, although you would have to figure out some new terms and conditions over distance selling (DSRs) which maybe excluded the Plek fees from being refundable, or does it make DSRs no longer apply as the item is “customised"

flying_pie · September 2023

@Nerine I'm don't know why you are talking about guitars being out of tune. A properly set up guitar should be in tune. A Pleked guitar isn't more in tune. They're just both in tune.

I'll happily agree to disagree and leave it at that. I'll also revise my use of language from "con" to ""unnecessary use of money " from Felilne's helpful post. I'm glad you're happy with your setup though.

@Dan_Halen that's how it starts... fast forward a couple of decades and the techs including @FelineGuitars (who hasn't bought one) will have been put out of business by the evil Plek using megastores and Skynet will have us all under its control (dons tin foil helmet)

Sporky · September 2023

flying_pie said:

@Nerine I'm don't know why you are talking about guitars being out of tune. A properly set up guitar should be in tune. A Pleked guitar isn't more in tune. They're just both in tune.

There's more to it than that with any even-tempered instrument.

My impression is that a Plek should be able to produce results akin to the very best techs. Possibly better, but I think we may then have passed diminishing returns into the gains being only theoretical.

However, the very best techs are few and far between. Anderton are a known quantity. I think the price is a little expensive (for understandable reasons), but for some people it might nevertheless be good value. Certainly not a con in any way to my mind.

Fishboy7 · September 2023

What guitars get 'Plek'd' at the factory? Don't all Gibson CS suff?

Musicman20 · September 2023

Plek is definitely NOT aimed at me. I've never had a post-sales setup on a bass/guitar since I started almost 30 years ago.

I switch between a fat neck Tele, modern Fender Strat, a short scale Jag, Gibson scale, Musicman skinny nut, 34" basses 4 and 5 string, and a Baritone almost 30" scale.

I just tune them up and play. Never had an issue (touch wood). I'm maybe very lucky!

If I did want a setup, I'd go to a recommended tech, (if I was near Feline, it'd be them!).

If they plek a new guitar for me and it's done at the factory, fair play.

Lewy · September 2023

I wonder if it would work out cheaper to get a refret in stainless steel frets done by someone with a plek, given there is usually a significant upcharge to get that done the traditional way because they're harder to work on.....

guitars4you · September 2023

FelineGuitars said:

The Plek is a fascinating and useful tool, and is in it’s most basic description a CNC fret levelling and crowning machine.
It is useful in the same way that a CNC router or a laser cutter is useful.
It can let the lesser skilled worker complete a task that is otherwise outside of their skillset, which is why it has been a real boon in guitar factories like Gibson etc

It is however even better in the hands of a skilled technician who has learnt to master it’s features, and I think that someone who knows how to get the best out of a set-up any way and could if the wished modify a plek profile in the software where needed could get great results out of one.
I think that getting the best out of a Plek process can involve a good or great tech doing a little aftercare on the guitar - I recall Charlie Chandler offering a “humanising the Plek “ additional service back in the day and I see that as where it all comes together

I have often looked at the benefit of owning one (or it owning me looking at the cost) and if funds and workshop space were plentiful I would have one in a heartbeat, along with a laser cutter, and a CNC machine

But when I looked at the cost of Plek ownership years ago it was:
1) £90k to buy it
2) A monthly maintenance fee
3) a percentage cost for each guitar that you put through the machine
So it added up to a LOT of money and ongoing costs too

So I had a long conversation with Dan Erlewine (many of you will know who he is as the head R&D guy for StewMac) who has been a guide and mentor to me in many ways, and we have been friends since 1996
I quizzed him as he had a Plek as well as having developed the Erlewine neck jig for accurate fret levelling.
His advice to me (with him knowing my work and that I have had several of his neck jigs over the years and gotten used to getting the best out of that system) is that he didn’t feel that it would necessarily raise my game or get better results other than save me from continued RSI from fret crowning.
He thought I would enjoy it and would have fun using it, but not necessarily get better results than I or any of the guys that I had trained would get.

I looked at the cost and decided getting that another qualified trainee to join our team and to intensively train to do the job would be a better option for me, and of course they also can do so much more than just level frets etc

Money no object would I own one - you bet!

Is it a con?

Nope but as a machine with a huge capital outlay to do one specific task then a business that gets one you have to find a way to recoup that investment over the lifespan of the machine. lets say that the machine will last 8-10 years
Lets say that you charge £50 upcharge to have the task done via the Plek, and assuming having the “human aftercare option”.
That means you would need a MINIMUM of 1800 Plek jobs - maybe more if you factor in the % fee and the monthly maintenance - so like 2000 Plek fret dresses.

Weekly we do maybe 3-6 full fret dresses and refrets as opposed to a Skim and fallaway (which we seem to do more often as a way to simply get a better basic set-up), so based on that turnoverit would take between 6-12 years of Plek use to simply BREAK EVEN on that investment.

You would have to advertise the heck out of it to get those numbers up to get to a point where it was a profitable move.

If you were a major retailer and offered it as an fee payable upgrade on guitars you are selling then I can see it making more sense, although you would have to figure out some new terms and conditions over distance selling (DSRs) which maybe excluded the Plek fees from being refundable, or does it make DSRs no longer apply as the item is “customised"

This by the bucket load

A skilled human touch is my preference if/when required

Not applicable to me now as I'm semi retired with the shop, but I would have loved to be able to employ the likes of Jon at Feline Guitars - ie a skilled repair guy at the shop as I feel it would add credibility to the store - The question becomes a) would such a tech want to work on a day to day basis, at a shop doing what he is told to do and some of it would be as mundane as hell b) could the shop justify hiring such a tech - They would have to take enough on repairs to pay his wage/expenses and make a profit out of employing him inc relevant tax/paye/pension etc - In a busy store like Anderton's I'm not so sure the likes of Jon would actually be utilised to his best skill level, as so much work would end up looking after simple new set-up adjustments that benefit the store and its customer, but will probably add little day to day 'happiness' to the likes of a good tech

I can see the business principles of such stores having a Plek option as the Plek is probably better than a mediocre junior tech that many often employ

Going back years ago, some will recall what an asset Charlie Chandler was to his brothers store when Doug owned/ran Chandlers back in the day - But then Chandlers mainly sold 'nice boutique' quality guitars back in the day- Today a busy 'box shifting store' sells so many Asian imports and indeed 'regular factory' USA models that often need some attention to get the best out of them so as I say I'm not sure a good tech would enjoy such 'bland' work on a day to day basis - It would be like an Aston Martin tech working on a Ford Mondeo

Seziertisch · September 2023

I think the risk Plek poses to the livelihoods of flesh and blood techs is being exaggerated somewhat. Plek as a service has been around for over 15 years or more, and we haven’t seen anyone going out of business because of it.

I got three guitars refretted with stainless steel and plekked back in 2007 when I lived in Berlin, and they are still some of the best playing instruments I have come across. They all have a particular feel which is different from other guitars I own which have been fettled by human techs.

guitars4you · September 2023

Seziertisch said:

I think the risk Plek poses to the livelihoods of flesh and blood techs is being exaggerated somewhat. Plek as a service has been around for over 15 years or more, and we haven’t seen anyone going out of business because of it.

I got three guitars refretted with stainless steel and plekked back in 2007 when I lived in Berlin, and they are still some of the best playing instruments I have come across. They all have a particular feel which is different from other guitars I own which have been fettled by human techs.

I'm not sure anyone is saying that the livelihood of a good tech is at risk - I think far from it - Most guitar techs can't justify buying one on the basis of recuperating any financial outlay - Add to that a skilled tech prefers the old method and I believe many customers like this as well

thomasross20 · September 2023

Great input!
So fret shaping for radiused boards - is that a thing or are all frets shaped the same regardless the fretboard radius?

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