Cap upgrades

suspiciousminds · September 2023

So, i’m going to do a few little upgrades on my Squier Cyclone that i recently bought, starting with the pots, electrics etc but one thing i noticed is that the capacitor is a .022uf.
The pickups are strat type single coils but i thought fenders/squiers with single coils normally are .047/.050uf?
Leave at .022uf or change?

ICBM · September 2023

Personally, I prefer .047uF with Fender-type single coils - .022uF rolls off less of the mids and so leaves a more honky tone when it's turned down. But it's a matter of taste... Fender have been using .022 since the 1980s on 'modern' Strats and Teles.

Bear in mind that *only* the cap value matters - there is no advantage or "upgrade" in using more expensive/esoteric/hyped types like 'paper in oil'.

Kittyfrisk · September 2023

^ What! So you are saying that the vintage oil wrap doesn't serve to marinade the tone molecules & improve the sound?
I don't believe it... after all I spent, they'd better work.

elstoof · September 2023

I prefer oil in paper, just be careful not to put the guitar upside down so it all tips out

BigPaulie · September 2023

I don't see the point in anything over 0.015uf.

With the normal cap values in guitars, turning the tone down lower than 7-8 just turns the sound to a useless muddy mush.

SpoonMan · September 2023

BigPaulie said:

With the normal cap values in guitars, turning the tone down lower than 7-8 just turns the sound to a useless muddy mush.

Try putting the guitar controls somewhere in the middle then setting your amp/pedals to taste. Then you have somewhere to go in both directions.

Philly_Q · September 2023

elstoof said:

I prefer oil in paper, just be careful not to put the guitar upside down so it all tips out

Today's paper in oil capacitors are tomorrow's fish and chips wrappers.

I think I may have that slightly wrong.

elstoof · September 2023

BigPaulie said:

I don't see the point in anything over 0.015uf.

With the normal cap values in guitars, turning the tone down lower than 7-8 just turns the sound to a useless muddy mush.

Depends on the pickups, 0.1uf are in my strat and I likes it

ICBM · September 2023

elstoof said:

Depends on the pickups, 0.1uf are in my strat and I likes it

I always find it funny how so many people want smaller-value caps, when the original Strat value - in some of the best-sounding and most desirable guitars ever made - is .1uF.

I don't like smaller values, they leave too much midrange and a honky tone. I prefer .047uF or larger with Fender-style single coils and .022uF with humbuckers and P90s.

Dave_Mc · September 2023

ICBM said:

elstoof said:

Depends on the pickups, 0.1uf are in my strat and I likes it

I always find it funny how so many people want smaller-value caps, when the original Strat value - in some of the best-sounding and most desirable guitars ever made - is .1uF.

I don't like smaller values, they leave too much midrange and a honky tone. I prefer .047uF or larger with Fender-style single coils and .022uF with humbuckers and P90s.

Agreed. Also they're a little too bright when up full. It's subtle but noticeable.

p90fool · September 2023

I prefer Gibson style .022uF in everything, it gives a great cocked wah lead tone with a bit of drive.
.047uF just kills volume and treble all at once for me.

CasperCaster · September 2023

elstoof said:

BigPaulie said:

I don't see the point in anything over 0.015uf.

With the normal cap values in guitars, turning the tone down lower than 7-8 just turns the sound to a useless muddy mush.

Depends on the pickups, 0.1uf are in my strat and I likes it

I'm quite a big fan of 0.1uF / 100nF caps with some pickups in Fender guitars. The Texas Specials in my American Special Strat, combined with the Grease Bucket circuitry sounded harsh. Ditching the Grease Bucket circuitry and replacing with regular tone control wiring with a 47nF cap helped a lot, but a subsequent change to a 100nF cap on the bridge pickup really helped me to enjoy the bridge pickup, which I had felt was still a little harsh even with the 47nF cap. At some point I may replace the bridge tone control pot with something with a flatter taper (say a 20% taper or higher) as it does feel like it cuts quite quickly, but overall I think there are a lot of positives with big value tone caps - certainly preferable to the 22nF caps that fender seem to use on everything these days.

Incidentally, I think the Grease Bucket circuit actually has potential, it's just badly implemented. I may experiment with it, when time allows, perhaps with two 100nF caps such that the capacitance varies from 100nF down to 50nF as the pot is reduced. I may keep or ditch the fixed resistor depending how that works - I rarely turn the tone control right down so the fixed resistor has some use for me, but I get why others dislike it.

suspiciousminds · September 2023

Well, i’ll go with a 05uf ceramic disc cap and solder that in.
Pretty sure an old fender bronco that i had, had an orange largish .05uf cap in it and that sounded fine.

ICBM · September 2023

suspiciousminds said:

Pretty sure an old fender bronco that i had, had an orange largish .05uf cap in it and that sounded fine.

Exactly - both Fender and Gibson used ceramics in the 1960s when they were making some of the most desirable vintage guitars.

WBT2079 · September 2023

When putting a varitone knob on a partscaster I made, I bought a capacitor decade box from Amazon for about £30.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elenco-CS440-Capacitor-Substitution-Box/dp/B0002KX776

I found it really useful to easily hear the difference capacitors make without having to do the soldering. I found that the bridge and neck pickups tended to sound better with different capacitors from each other, and that the standard 22 / 47 was almost a settling for the mid point. I found the individual increments didn’t give much change, it was really every 2 turns of the dial or more tha5 made a noticeable difference.

Mike58 · September 2023

I think pot taper has a huge effect on useable tone circuits .
For my tastes I like the thickening you can get using a low value cap on a Strat bridge p/u... but it’s useless with a 10% taper pot.
I have not experimented with a big old 0.1uF and a J-taper pot ( 30%taper CTS) but look forward to trying it.
i have a Tele with a ‘52 reissue bridge p/u and it’s perfectly mated to a 0.033uF cap and 20%taper pot, gives a fabulous wah wah effect when reqd ( which isn’t often ! ).
Get some leads with crocodile clips, a bunch of different pot tapers and have fun trying cap values.

Mike58 · September 2023

WBT2079 said:

When putting a varitone knob on a partscaster I made, I bought a capacitor decade box from Amazon for about £30.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elenco-CS440-Capacitor-Substitution-Box/dp/B0002KX776

I found it really useful to easily hear the difference capacitors make without having to do the soldering. I found that the bridge and neck pickups tended to sound better with different capacitors from each other, and that the standard 22 / 47 was almost a settling for the mid point. I found the individual increments didn’t give much change, it was really every 2 turns of the dial or more tha5 made a noticeable difference.

Never seen one of these cap sub boxes, how useful ( out of stock tho)

Dave_Mc · September 2023

ICBM said:

suspiciousminds said:

Pretty sure an old fender bronco that i had, had an orange largish .05uf cap in it and that sounded fine.

Exactly - both Fender and Gibson used ceramics in the 1960s when they were making some of the most desirable vintage guitars.

Well they were until you pointed that out.

(

)

Dave_Mc · September 2023

WBT2079 said:

When putting a varitone knob on a partscaster I made, I bought a capacitor decade box from Amazon for about £30.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Elenco-CS440-Capacitor-Substitution-Box/dp/B0002KX776

I found it really useful to easily hear the difference capacitors make without having to do the soldering. I found that the bridge and neck pickups tended to sound better with different capacitors from each other, and that the standard 22 / 47 was almost a settling for the mid point. I found the individual increments didn’t give much change, it was really every 2 turns of the dial or more tha5 made a noticeable difference.

Nice!

suspiciousminds · September 2023

ICBM said:

suspiciousminds said:

Pretty sure an old fender bronco that i had, had an orange largish .05uf cap in it and that sounded fine.

Exactly - both Fender and Gibson used ceramics in the 1960s when they were making some of the most desirable vintage guitars.

Are these still available do you know?
There’s quite a selection of capacitors on the fender website but i cant see that type of large flat round cap.

elstoof · September 2023

Look for “dime” ceramic caps

ICBM · September 2023

I may have some, I’ll have a look later when I get home. They might even be proper “.05uF” and not modern .047uF too… it makes all the difference

.

Magic vintage tone caps, only $100 each.

Kidding - if I have them you can have a couple for the cost of postage.

elstoof · September 2023

0.5 with a +/-6% tolerance

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