Cheap and easy King of Tone - why is nobody interested?

-x-GF-x- · September 2023

I'm toying with making myself a utility pedal that essentially allows me to plug in two other pedals and then gives me the ability to switch between running pedal A into pedal B, or B in A, or have them run alongside each other in parallel.

It seems (to my novice, simple mind) to be fairly straightforward to have this pedal feature a 3-way toggle (between AintoB, A &B, BintoA), a level/volume dial for each side, and maybe (and this would be a complication) a phase dial or inverter switch.

That said, it seems *so* basic that I must be missing a reason why nobody already supplies this pedal, or why there's no demand for it.

For someone on a budget like I am, the ability to pick 2 from all the inexpensive tube screamer, blues breaker dumble options to arrive at something not a million miles away from the

Is it because ultimately, you could accomplish the same just by cabling? That seems a faff, especially when you want to mess around and easily and quickly compare options and tone.

As I say, I think I'm missing something (and my preference for what I'm missing would be a readily available inexpensive instance of this pedal already in production and available for me to buy!)

GoFish · September 2023

I think that most companies with suffiient scale to make this would also like to keep the profit that comes from hawking a double pedal. That to my mind is the thinking behind the glut of new double drives from Joyo, Caline etc. People love a ready made solution - it involves no extra cabling and uses the same power as a single.

I hear you though. I'm amazed that there isn't a widely available feedback looper for plugging effects into themselves and controlling the resultant mess.

Sporky · September 2023

This sounds a bit like a Boss LS2.

I've not tried to work it out, but I think doing this on a mechanical switch might not be simple.

ecc83 · September 2023

A few months back I built my son a box, could have been a pedal, that allowed him to route his guitar either through a looper or directly to an amplifier. It also incorporated a PP3 and LEDs selected for very low current drain <2mA but the pedal still worked sans power.

To run both sides all you would need is a second switch to link both 'hot' jack tags. No V pots though, not needed in this application.

Dave.

roberty · September 2023

Nothing that I'm aware of. Boss ES-5 will do it but not cheap and arguably not easy either

roberty · September 2023

Sporky said:

This sounds a bit like a Boss LS2.

I've not tried to work it out, but I think doing this on a mechanical switch might not be simple.

It's useful but it won't do B -> A

It can do A ->B and A+B parallel mix

Also works as a clean blend in parallel mode with only one loop connected (bass players take heed lol)

Image: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/N4EAAOSwc0Zk8JcU/s-l1600.png

Sporky · September 2023

roberty said:
It's useful but it won't do B -> A

It can do A ->B and A+B parallel mix

Ah, gotcha.

-x-GF-x- · September 2023

GoFish said:

I think that most companies with suffiient scale to make this would also like to keep the profit that comes from hawking a double pedal. That to my mind is the thinking behind the glut of new double drives from Joyo, Caline etc. People love a ready made solution - it involves no extra cabling and uses the same power as a single.

I hear you though. I'm amazed that there isn't a widely available feedback looper for plugging effects into themselves and controlling the resultant mess.

Yeah - agreed - and I see the appeal of a neat box - but the offset is that you get to swap out pedals on each side to your heart's content.

Sporky said:

This sounds a bit like a Boss LS2.

I've not tried to work it out, but I think doing this on a mechanical switch might not be simple.

I have an LS-2 and it's a great pedal, but as @roberty ; says, it doesn't do quite what I'm after. In terms of I think avoiding pops might be an issue .
ecc83 said: A few months back I built my son a box, could have been a pedal, that allowed him to route his guitar either through a looper or directly to an amplifier. It also incorporated a PP3 and LEDs selected for very low current drain <2mA but the pedal still worked sans power.
To run both sides all you would need is a second switch to link both 'hot' jack tags. No V pots though, not needed in this application.

Dave.
Thanks - that's pretty motivational/inspirational! In terms of volume/level I was thinking it would allow to control the blend when in parallel , but also, I was thinking/hoping to be able to use the pedal to blend with the clean tone in some way - if I switch off one of the pedals, then I may need a volume control for that signal...

roberty · September 2023

-x-GF-x- said:

I have an LS-2

You could get a simple order switcher and put that after the LS-2

Sporky · September 2023

I think it might be doable with a 4-pole, triple throw switch. Which I think is probably a rotary, the toggles I've seen like that have oddities. You'd likely need a buffer at the input, and a mixer circuit at the output.

Polarity switching can be done with a single op-amp and some passives, there's a circuit at Geofex for that.

steamabacus · September 2023

I'm not sure how you'd manage parallel in a simple passive switcher but switching the order is easily do-able.

Bright Onion do a couple of versions ...

https://brightonion.co.uk/products/dual-reverse-looper

https://brightonion.co.uk/products/dual-reverse-looper-v2

I have the circuit for an Effects Order Switcher in an old Guitar Player DIY Projects book - if you go down that route I could scan it for you.

euan · September 2023

Yeah parallel and clean bend means an active mixer/blender. The OBNE Signal Blender is close but doesn’t let you swap orders and isn’t cheap.

maharg101 · September 2023

VFE Klein Bottle does this in triplicate.
Pricey and you have probably missed the boat for a new one.

pt22 · September 2023

I also agree this is not as simple as it may seem. Saturnworks Pedals (US-Based) has a ton of splitters, summers, mixers, both passive and active with every option imaginable.

ICBM · September 2023

The Boss JB-2 Angry Driver has all of these options (apart from phase reversal) so in theory you could copy the switching part of the circuit. I haven’t looked inside one or been able to find the schematic though, so I don’t know how complex it is - the only pics I can see online suggests “very”... it has a large-scale surface-mount chip in a pedal with only analogue distortion circuitry, so I think it must be for the control.

https://m.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2161368834098865.1073743358.1637312769837810&type=1&l=588af488ad&_se_imp=1eSylkV4D8DZyVR5Z

JayGee · September 2023

Sporky said:

This sounds a bit like a Boss LS2.

I've not tried to work it out, but I think doing this on a mechanical switch might not be simple.

I can’t help thinking that a bunch of relays (or analog switch ICs depending on how purist you are about this stuff) and a small microcontroller might actually be the easiest, cheapest[1], and neatest way to achieve this…

[1] For certain values of “easy” and “cheap” which mostly involve having the kit and skills available, although both of those are surprisingly easy to acquire these days for anyone with an interest in tinkering with this kind of thing.

Sporky · September 2023

Having done a load of relay based stuff, I'd say go for electronic soft switching. Relays are easy, but high current draw, and very prone to pops as charge can easily build up on the contacts inside.

I might sketch out my switching idea properly, as I'm near certain a 4P3T rotary would do the switching just fine.

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Cheap and easy King of Tone - why is nobody interested?

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