Does it exist - tap tempo looping bass drum pedal

thecolourbox · September 2023

I'm wondering if such a thing exists, or whether it would need to be a combination of things - Google searching for this is quite hard because of the key words being common to a lot of different things and none of them quite seem to be what I mean.

In my head, I have an idea of what's essentially a drum machine looper pedal, whereby you can tap tempo for the speed, and then tap the rhythm you want within that loop on a bass drum sound. I don't want a full drum machine as I think they sound cheesy, just a bass drum sound. Sometimes it'll just be tapping the beat on the bass drum, other times a bit of variation on the rhythm.

Needs to be foot controlled as hands would be busy playing (and it looks naff to keep leaning over an MPC type thing and tapping away with fingers)

This would then be used "one man band" style underneath guitar and vocals, like how people use those stomp boxes (Seasick Steve style) but without the need for me to keep tapping all the way through the song, as that would probably cause RSI and also I'd be out of time quite quickly.

In my head it would be cool to be able to fill out the sound in a solo kind of setting, and also give you the flexibility to improvise a little as you go, rather than just using say a looper with pre-saved wav file loops for specific songs.

I feel like it wouldn't exist and I'd need to combine say a Looper and one of those Roland drum stomp pad things, but that's getting into a realm of more co-ordination than I think I'd possess!

Thanks

english_bob · September 2023

Why not just use a drum machine? Just because it can make all those other sounds doesn't mean you can't program it to just play a bass drum pattern.

It shouldn't be difficult to find one that can trigger on/off and tap tempo with a footswitch.

If you want to be able to build your drum loops on the fly every time then a stomp box pedal connected to a looper would work.

thecolourbox · September 2023

I'll look into that a bit more, I think in that scenario I'd need a drum machine and a midi controller to do what I mean, the pedal ones I can see all seem to only contain the cheesy drum loop patterns which I don't want. Having stuff you don't want is fine as you say, as long as you don't have to use that part, but there doesn't seem to be a way on those of just tapping in a loop and letting it run until you press stop.

Maybe I need to rig it up on my pc at home virtually first and see how it works. Just hoped such a thing could exist (or be hacked into existance)

stickyfiddle · September 2023

I agree with Engbob; I've seen a fair few folks using a small tabletop drum machine for exactly this sort of thing. I'm not certain re tap tempo, but any halfway decent drum machine will let you do pretty much any rhythm you can program

fretmeister · September 2023

Does the Beatbuddy do it?

LionAquaLooper · September 2023

fretmeister said:

Does the Beatbuddy do it?

It does tap tempo but I can't remember if you can isolate just the bass drum. I sold mine a while ago unfortunately.
I have the Boss RC500 and it definitely does all of the above.

Supportact · September 2023

Boss RC3 can change the tempo of the loop by tap tempo. I've got an external footswitch added for mine. If you change the tempo too far from the original it can affect the sound quality of the loop though. You'd have to check the manual to see if it does exactly what you're after.

Edit: probably other Boss ones do this as well, it's only the RC3 I've done it with. I see someone above mentioned the RC500 as an option as well.

english_bob · September 2023

stickyfiddle said:

I agree with Engbob; I've seen a fair few folks using a small tabletop drum machine for exactly this sort of thing. I'm not certain re tap tempo, but any halfway decent drum machine will let you do pretty much any rhythm you can program

Shouldn't be too difficult if you do your homework. Ten minutes flicking between eBay and various .pdf manuals turned up several fairly ancient drum machines that would do both with a dual footswitch (Zoom RT 234, Boss DR-5, Alesis SR-16, all available fairly cheaply on eBay), so anything newer should be capable too, although it turns out the kind of drum machines I found on eBay aren't really so much of a thing any more.

english_bob · September 2023

LionAquaLooper said:

It does tap tempo but I can't remember if you can isolate just the bass drum. I sold mine a while ago unfortunately.
I have the Boss RC500 and it definitely does all of the above.

Boss have an editor program where you can write rhythms for RC series loopers. I couldn't find any information on which of the RC series pedals were compatible- RC-1 doesn't have drum patterns so definitely not that. I doubt the RC-3 will. RC-5 might. Pretty sure the bigger ones - RC-500, RC-10R and the mahoosive ones were compatible.

thecolourbox · September 2023

Thanks guys, it's not really a world I know much about but just like the sound in my head and would love to work out how to do it. Also it helps me to avoid ever needing to play alongside another human and I'd have (in theory) total control over what I'm playing, at what tempo, and with what bass drum pattern underneath me. I'm a massive White Stripes fan and one of the things I like is how when playing live, they would often play around with the tempos on stage by just looking at each other to sync together, that's the kind of feel I'm trying to create.

Pre-programming could be useful for when I don't want any flexibility but it's really the ability to tap a tempo for a bar length with one switch, then once that's set, tap the bass drum pattern with a second switch.

I don't really know that it would work practically speaking, or whether it would sound a bit shit in reality vs how it sounds in my head. For example tapping the tempo/bar length would then presumably need me to have some kind of metronome to be able to tap in the bass drum rhythm, which seems extra complication than it's really worth.

LionAquaLooper said:

fretmeister said:

Does the Beatbuddy do it?

It does tap tempo but I can't remember if you can isolate just the bass drum. I sold mine a while ago unfortunately.
I have the Boss RC500 and it definitely does all of the above.

I don't think you can just do bass drum on beat buddy. RC500 looks like you can select which drum parts are playing but I can't see anything in the manual which suggests you can create your own patterns, seems like you just have to use the built in patterns, is that correct or am I reading the manual wrong? I'm a bit slow on the update and a bit thick so please forgive me

LionAquaLooper · September 2023

You can mute one or many components of a drum track on the fly on the RC500 so you're left with just a bass drum, or bass + snare, or just hi-hat etc. No need for the editor. BUT you can't just tap (let's say) a bass drum pattern of your choice and get that to loop. That would require the editor that english bob mentioned, or a dedicated drum machine if you really want on the fly custom drum patterns.

thecolourbox · September 2023

Gotcha, thanks yes that's what I mean. Stopping between songs to open up an editor on a laptop obviously isn't going to work, and I'm guessing a looper in addition to a drum machine is a bit pointless as they tend to loop themselves anyway don't they.

It's fairly hypothetical although I'd love to be able to do this at some point to let off some creative steam. Really the answer is a second person on an MPC or keyboard tapping it in but that would a) require somebody willing to work with me and be told what to do, and b) more rehearsal faff to get it working. I don't want to work with other people and they don't want to work with me, so something electronic would be ideal.

Flanging_Fred · September 2023

The Ortega QUANTUMloop might get you somewhere close to where you want to be.

LionAquaLooper · September 2023

Or you can just do what this guy does

I just found out about him yesterday and sounds exactly like the kind of thing you want to do!

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/254331/there-are-multi-instrumentalists-and-then-theres-steel-beans#latest

thecolourbox · September 2023

LionAquaLooper said:

Or you can just do what this guy does I just found out about him yesterday and sounds exactly like the kind of thing you want to do!

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/254331/there-are-multi-instrumentalists-and-then-theres-steel-beans#latest

Kind of, yeah, but I don't play the drums nor do i want to. Looks like a good way to get RSI playing a bass drum all the way through a song when I don't need to (and one less multi task thing to worry about - i notice that he, by necessity) is usually playing exactly the same rhythm on guitar as drums, and that is the kind of restriction I'd like to avoid really!). Good on him though, I couldn't listen to it very long (sounds like a Black Keys demo tape?), but he's clearly very good at it and getting himself out there doing it so fair play to him

thecolourbox · September 2023

Flanging_Fred said:

The Ortega QUANTUMloop might get you somewhere close to where you want to be.

Yes that looks quite nifty actually... good shout thank you

LionAquaLooper · September 2023

Do you play acoustic or electric? Acoustic players who loop (so many of them) use the body of the guitar to simulate a kick drum and loop that.

Or there are these types of stomp boxes that you literally stomp on and they produce a kick drum sound for you to loop. I've never used one but I'd like to think some can even be programmed to trigger other drum/percussion sounds or even samples:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153974348782 ;

thecolourbox · September 2023

LionAquaLooper said:

Do you play acoustic or electric? Acoustic players who loop (so many of them) use the body of the guitar to simulate a kick drum and loop that.

Or there are these types of stomp boxes that you literally stomp on and they produce a kick drum sound for you to loop. I've never used one but I'd like to think some can even be programmed to trigger other drum/percussion sounds or even samples:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153974348782 ;

It's electric I'd mostly want to play, I don't like the sounds of acoustic live (and acoustic leads me to playing more boring and bed-wetter style music haha) and I particularly dislike the "bang the body for a drum sound" thing I'm afraid

menamestom · September 2023

I use a Roland SPD kick, which I play manually.

No RSI issues and we play 1.5 hour sets.

Some thoughts having played a lot of gigs with this setup.

Kick only can get very samey. Playing manually allows tempo and volume changes in the song. The kick is dynamic so you can play louder or quieter as the song requires.

A tambourine on the other foot gives great variation to lift choruses and bridges. I play the tambourine either first beat of the bar, every other beat or all beats with the kick. Not so much off beats or anything too clever, but I might work on that.

Manual or drum machine/looper, PA is critical. IME you need bass bins on the PA or 15inch woofers. 12inch tops only sound passable but anything less and you get no weight to the sound.

Endings are fun on the manual pedal, i use both feet for a fast bass drum roll/crescendo and can make sure the last hit times with the bass guitarist for a faux ‘band’ ending. Honestly, I’m like Cozy Powell some days!

It can get tiring but you build it up. Personally it’s worth it over a loop for dynamics, tempo and variation.

allen · September 2023

fretmeister said:

Does the Beatbuddy do it?

I think so. There's an 'accent' feature which just makes the sound every time you hit the footswitch.

monquixote · September 2023

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

thecolourbox · September 2023

monquixote said:

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

I did think of that kind of thing, or the Behringer knockoffs (or even a Korg Volca) however, I wasn't sure they'd do what I want as I don't necessarily want to pre program and store patterns (as I'd have another thing to remember, which rhythm is pattern 004 again? Which number is that pattern again? etc) and I'd like to easily be able to stop it whilst playing, for a bit of contrast or to readjust my own tempo a bit. My tempo/time keeping is a bit variable owing to my solo-piano-based past (and present).

menamestom said:

I use a Roland SPD kick, which I play manually.

I think my main issue with something like that where I can do the loop, is that I'd be tied to the spot and have to keep stamping my foot even when playing stuff with a contrasting rhythm. Can you stamp out a rhythm while soloing for example? I imagine that would be really hard to do without just laying the same rhythm

I think I need to write/record some songs which do what I mean, in order to show audio examples of what i'd like to recreate

monquixote · September 2023

thecolourbox said:

monquixote said:

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

I did think of that kind of thing, or the Behringer knockoffs (or even a Korg Volca) however, I wasn't sure they'd do what I want as I don't necessarily want to pre program and store patterns (as I'd have another thing to remember, which rhythm is pattern 004 again? Which number is that pattern again? etc) and I'd like to easily be able to stop it whilst playing, for a bit of contrast or to readjust my own tempo a bit. My tempo/time keeping is a bit variable owing to my solo-piano-based past (and present).

If you are familiar with TR style step sequencing I'd just put the pattern you want in live.
It would be quicker than farting about trying to tap something in if all you are looking for is kick and tempo.

Given you just want a kick pattern I can't imagine there are going to be that many especially as you won't have anything else to give it context so a complex pattern will be weird and hard to play to.

Couple it with a MIDI pedal if you want to start it with your foot.

thecolourbox · September 2023

monquixote said:

thecolourbox said:

monquixote said:

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

I did think of that kind of thing, or the Behringer knockoffs (or even a Korg Volca) however, I wasn't sure they'd do what I want as I don't necessarily want to pre program and store patterns (as I'd have another thing to remember, which rhythm is pattern 004 again? Which number is that pattern again? etc) and I'd like to easily be able to stop it whilst playing, for a bit of contrast or to readjust my own tempo a bit. My tempo/time keeping is a bit variable owing to my solo-piano-based past (and present).
If you are familiar with TR style step sequencing I'd just put the pattern you want in live.
It would be quicker than farting about trying to tap something in if all you are looking for is kick and tempo.

Given you just want a kick pattern I can't imagine there are going to be that many especially as you won't have anything else to give it context so a complex pattern will be weird and hard to play to.

Couple it with a MIDI pedal if you want to start it with your foot.

I wouldn't normally want it to start before I am playing though, a typical song structure would be

Playing through the chord sequence/riff motif
Sing verse
Sing chorus - add the drum beat
Slight pause before verse, no drum
Second verse, drum beat returns maybe
Second chorus, drum beat still going
Then either another quieter breakdown bit (no drums) or a solo (with drums)
Maybe then go off on one into something else while finishing up so no time to go over to the machine and change it by hand.

There would only be me there, watching one person on a stage tapping away on a little gadget you can't see very well isn't all that fun. I'll see how much I could do via a midi foot switch perhaps. That at least hides some of the fiddling about

monquixote · September 2023

thecolourbox said:

monquixote said:

thecolourbox said:

monquixote said:

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

I did think of that kind of thing, or the Behringer knockoffs (or even a Korg Volca) however, I wasn't sure they'd do what I want as I don't necessarily want to pre program and store patterns (as I'd have another thing to remember, which rhythm is pattern 004 again? Which number is that pattern again? etc) and I'd like to easily be able to stop it whilst playing, for a bit of contrast or to readjust my own tempo a bit. My tempo/time keeping is a bit variable owing to my solo-piano-based past (and present).
If you are familiar with TR style step sequencing I'd just put the pattern you want in live.
It would be quicker than farting about trying to tap something in if all you are looking for is kick and tempo.

Given you just want a kick pattern I can't imagine there are going to be that many especially as you won't have anything else to give it context so a complex pattern will be weird and hard to play to.

Couple it with a MIDI pedal if you want to start it with your foot.

I wouldn't normally want it to start before I am playing though, a typical song structure would be

Playing through the chord sequence/riff motif
Sing verse
Sing chorus - add the drum beat
Slight pause before verse, no drum
Second verse, drum beat returns maybe
Second chorus, drum beat still going
Then either another quieter breakdown bit (no drums) or a solo (with drums)
Maybe then go off on one into something else while finishing up so no time to go over to the machine and change it by hand.

There would only be me there, watching one person on a stage tapping away on a little gadget you can't see very well isn't all that fun. I'll see how much I could do via a midi foot switch perhaps. That at least hides some of the fiddling about

If you are bringing the drums in and out it will likely have jarring tempo shifts.

I'd be inclined to have percussion or something going and being the kick in and out etc.

steamabacus · September 2023

I wouldn't normally want it to start before I am playing though, a typical song structure would be

Playing through the chord sequence/riff motif
Sing verse
Sing chorus - add the drum beat
Slight pause before verse, no drum
Second verse, drum beat returns maybe
Second chorus, drum beat still going
Then either another quieter breakdown bit (no drums) or a solo (with drums)
Maybe then go off on one into something else while finishing up so no time to go over to the machine and change it by hand.

I can't really help with suggestions for the specific tech to achieve what you want but, as far as technique is concerned, it seems to me that you'd want a looper that can be 'armed' to start looping at a certain input volume threshold. You'd then start recording your loop with the kick on the 'one', play whatever pattern you need and then when you get to the end of the loop, instead of hitting the kick, tap on the looper pedal to define your loop length (all while playing the guitar/singing).

Obviously, this would mean you couldn't have the guitar going through the looper as well (as it would trigger the loop start - unless you could get the trigger level just right so that the kick triggers it and the guitar doesn't and without messing up the balance required between guitar and kick).

menamestom · September 2023

thecolourbox said:

monquixote said:

I would just use a TR6-S or similar and put a few patterns in.

Nice and small, runs on batteries. Just set the tempo and hit go.

I did think of that kind of thing, or the Behringer knockoffs (or even a Korg Volca) however, I wasn't sure they'd do what I want as I don't necessarily want to pre program and store patterns (as I'd have another thing to remember, which rhythm is pattern 004 again? Which number is that pattern again? etc) and I'd like to easily be able to stop it whilst playing, for a bit of contrast or to readjust my own tempo a bit. My tempo/time keeping is a bit variable owing to my solo-piano-based past (and present).

menamestom said:

I use a Roland SPD kick, which I play manually.

I think my main issue with something like that where I can do the loop, is that I'd be tied to the spot and have to keep stamping my foot even when playing stuff with a contrasting rhythm. Can you stamp out a rhythm while soloing for example? I imagine that would be really hard to do without just laying the same rhythm

I think I need to write/record some songs which do what I mean, in order to show audio examples of what i'd like to recreate

Yeah, can get difficult if you want to lay down complex kick patterns. I do some soloing, but I just keep it on the beat when I do. It doesn’t impede guitar rhythm in the slightest, but I’m basically keeping the bass drum simple so I can play what I need to on guitar.

Sassafras · September 2023

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Does it exist - tap tempo looping bass drum pedal

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