Fender Stratocaster AVRI's

Voxman · September 2023

Having seen @strat84 lovely 2014 AVRI, I realised I don't know much about AVRI's other than short of Custom Shop, these were the nearest to vintage correct - have I got that right? I've heard really good things about them so be interested in learning more.

I was looking at prices on EBay and they seem to be all over the place, generally from £1,300 to £2,500 but with some higher - even seen one at £5k (albeit seems way OTT)! Are these still (generally) better value than Custom Shop and are there better/more desirable years/versions than others and if so what would be fair prices for a decent one in today's market?

Are these a good option if the Custom Shop prices are out of reach for someone? And in terms of quality, tone and playability, how do these compare with eg things like the newer American Pro II Strats?

Penn · September 2023

I don’t know if they are good as I’ve not played one but the American vintage 2 series are closer to 2k now so the AVRI used prices don’t surprise me. The new ones are what custom shop prices were and the custom shop stuff is now somewhere north of crazy.

JamesSGBrown · September 2023

AVRI are different from AV. AV series is considered 'better'- thin nitro finishes without poly sealer (forgive me if my terminology is wrong), and many feel the original AV series are the best guitars they've made outside the custom shop. The AVRI series are closer to the AO series but with vintage fretboard radius' and fretwire. FWIW the AVII series also have the poly sealer rather than a thin skin finish.
Prices go from £1300-£2k dependent on the model. Sometimes more for rare models, like the '62 Telecaster Custom

Alterlifeson · September 2023

These were basically the same specs as you would have got in their respective years. Vintage frets, 7.25 radius, correct body material for the year etc. Can't recall if they kept laminate or slab correct for rosewood boards. The only exception was all strats came with a 5 way.

There was a 'thin-skin' variant that may have been dealer specific? I think these are the ones to have according to their price vs. the standard AVRIs. How much you like the ultra thin finish is up to you, I have seen some examples where it has flaked off in areas and looks terrible IMO.

The American Original series that followed modernised the line by including 9.5 radiuses and transitional logos on some models.

Alterlifeson · September 2023

JamesSGBrown said:

AVRI are different from AV. AV series is considered 'better'- thin nitro finishes without poly sealer (forgive me if my terminology is wrong), and many feel the original AV series are the best guitars they've made outside the custom shop. The AVRI series are closer to the AO series but with vintage fretboard radius' and fretwire. FWIW the AVII series also have the poly sealer rather than a thin skin finish.
Prices go from £1300-£2k dependent on the model. Sometimes more for rare models, like the '62 Telecaster Custom

Ah - might be getting my AV vs. AVRIs mixed up in that case!

Penn · September 2023

They all sort of blur into one to me. I think they are probably all good enough guitars but none of them are going to be identical to a real old fender. They’re all variations on a theme and probably mostly good.

HerbieTheRadDorklift · September 2023

Used CS over a new AV, or a good used AV!

Voxman · September 2023

Crikey, a lot to learn, thanks guys - I didn't realise AVRI & AV were different. With so many variations, and with AO's in the mix too, it all seems a bit of a minefield, at least to me!

Dan_Halen · September 2023

I had one, sold it as never really used single coils and it's the only guitar I regret selling. It had been gigged loads and looked like a relic, but in that natural way where every ding, crack and missing bit of paint was real wear and it just looked right.

It felt very much like a custom shop light relic in the hands - like a good, well played strat. Whereas the American Pro (albeit Tele) I've got is a really good guitar but it's very, dunno, modern feeling. One is like your favourite comfy pair of old slippers, the other like brand new shiny shoes that you can't fault... but you just don't feel quite at home in. Both the right answer but to a different question I guess.

I'd totally buy one again if the right one cropped up but would probably want to try it first, which is more difficult used. Not sure where the extra cash goes on a custom shop over one of these which is maybe why they stopped making them.

Also, it was vintage radius and frets which puts people off but it played great. Don't know if I just got lucky with my sample of 1 (although they do seem very popular), but it had a fairly low action, easy playing, couldn't make a bend choke out even if I tried... ARGH, WHY DID I SELL IT!?!?!?!?

Gassage · September 2023

The first run Fullerton made AVRI's are incredible instruments, but part of that is the Gilmour CAR Strat thing.

You'll pay CS money for one.

Th4fonz · September 2023

I played a new avri version 2 recently in Denmark street. I can’t remember the price somewhere around £1700. It was a 50s Strat a nice guitar if you found one used for £1200 I’d say go for it. You can get customshops for under 2.5k so I’d just save the extra and go for that if you was looking at paying retail. I wouldn’t get caught up on so called vintage specs or anything just go play a load and see what speaks to you.

strat84 · September 2023

Thanks for the mention @Voxman ;

This new 59 is actually my 3rd AVRI/AV Strat. I have the AV65 and also a 62 AVRI, I've had those for 5-6 years. All great guitars and well worth the money IMO.

I bought a CS 60 Strat last year as I'd never really tried one, at home or a gig anyway. It was a lovely guitar, very light with a dark rosewood board and all the rest of it. After a couple of gigs I realised I wasn't missing anything with the AV so ended up selling the CS. In fact, I struggled a bit with the 9.5 radius having been used to the 7.25 for years.

@Alterlifeson ; I've also seen examples of AV series with finish flaking off. Luckily, my two have avoided this and have aged nicely with some very light checking.

RobG3294 · September 2023

Us collectors of the Fender Re-Issues will (on majority) advise you the AV (2012-17) is the ones you want to look at. Fender bumped the MSRP way up on them, as ostensibly, they replaced the old Custom Shop Time Machine series, whilst the CS went on to do less period correct runs (see modern CS floor travellers), as that's what the shops and punters wanted.

AV is 52 (2012-17 run), 58, 64 Teles // 56, 59, 65 Strats - plus 2 65 offsets.

I have at least 1 of every model from that run in my collection (what a sad little life, Jane) across all years of the range (rumour is the earlier ones had a marginally thinner coat) and not one of them has had any issue with the Flash coat flaking off. They will ding more easily, but even then, it doesn't flake off. Note - flash coat finishes (and the way they are applied) are actually non period correct for the 64 Tele and 65 Strat in the run.

Whomever's is flaking off is storing them in an unsuitable environment, or handling them incorrectly.

They also far surpass the older AVRI second gen (1998-2012) in terms of fit and finish, attention to detail and case candy.

The only plus point for the AVRI is the 57/62 strat pickups (which is in fact a re-issue of a 63 strat pickup, bizarre nomenclature) are bloody brilliant - and secondly the cases have better, longer lasting latches (Cheney UK made).

The US Vintage series (pre 98, mistakenly called AVRI, made in fullerton prior to 1985 - made in uber small numbers in late 85 in corona, and then properly from 86-98) are okay, but the fullerton premium is a joke. They are also the least vintage correct (hockey stick headstock/super thin neck for a 62 strat).

The AV2 is really a return 90% or so to the old AVRI series (poly undercoat) just with the typical modern Fender cost cutting measures (rationed case candy, sh*t new G&G cases with crap latches).

I could go on more about the Tele's but the OP mentions Strats.

Voxman · September 2023

Wow, thanks @RobG3294...lots of great helpful info and appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge.

chris78 · September 2023

The AV 2012-7 line were also mostly light with the early ones being very light. Fender still had decent lightweight wood and the AV line as top of production got the best bits.

Chris Fleming (master builder) was heavily involved in design and specs for the guitars.

They age like the old ones and feel old after a few years.
The AV2 line isn’t anywhere near as good.

jellybelly · September 2023

Don't think I saw a roundup but:

AVRI (American Vintage ReIssues) were around for a long time with some colour changes (maybe as far back as late '90s?). Not certain if these were nitro??
AV (American Vintage) line followed with 'flashcoat' nitro finishes and clear retooling of a lot of what went into the AVRI line. Certainly new pickups etc. My '65 Jag is aging as if I gig it every night (i.e. quickly!!)
AO (American Original) line followed shortly after - pretty much as AV but with stuff like 9.5" radii. ("but there's no vintage correct guitars anymore!?!?" Some said)
AVRII/AV2 (American Vintage 2) line launched last year supposedly all new but some small headstocks on '66 Jazzmasters suggest otherwise. New pickups though and combines elements of the AVRI and AV lines

My 2 pence - I've an AV '65 Jaguar and AVRII '66 Jazzmaster and the latter is the better guitar. As mentioned the AV is aging quickly also but hasn't 'flaked' like some have

RobG3294 · September 2023

jellybelly said:

Don't think I saw a roundup but:

AVRI (American Vintage ReIssues) were around for a long time with some colour changes (maybe as far back as late '90s?). Not certain if these were nitro??
AV (American Vintage) line followed with 'flashcoat' nitro finishes and clear retooling of a lot of what went into the AVRI line. Certainly new pickups etc. My '65 Jag is aging as if I gig it every night (i.e. quickly!!)
AO (American Original) line followed shortly after - pretty much as AV but with stuff like 9.5" radii. ("but there's no vintage correct guitars anymore!?!?" Some said)
AVRII/AV2 (American Vintage 2) line launched last year supposedly all new but some small headstocks on '66 Jazzmasters suggest otherwise. New pickups though and combines elements of the AVRI and AV lines

My 2 pence - I've an AV '65 Jaguar and AVRII '66 Jazzmaster and the latter is the better guitar. As mentioned the AV is aging quickly also but hasn't 'flaked' like some have

Good chronology. As per my post though - US Vintage Series was everything pre 98. No AVRI before then (unless we're now abbreviating US Vintage to AVRI). I know I'm being a pain on this one.

More than just colour changes. Lots of more period correct changes came in 1998 with the introduction of AVRI such as more accurate body contouring and the cessation of the incorrect headstock shape, and a slightly thicker neck of similar profile. American Vintage Re-Issue Series (AVRI) was post 98 only. 57/62 pickups were then altered at said juncture to bevelled A5 pole pieces and formvar coils from the previous enamel, basically making a totally different sounding pickup.

Also the AV2 series has now fixed the small headstock on the 66 Jazzmaster, after much badgering from the offset forum crowd lol.

The AV2 series uses the same hardware designed for the AV1. Every custom shop year specific model since the introduction also uses the same Pure Vintage hardware designed for the AV1 range, this in turn is a great reason why post 2012 custom shops fetch more than the older ones. Make of that what you will.

crunchman · September 2023

RobG3294 said:

The only plus point for the AVRI is the 57/62 strat pickups (which is in fact a re-issue of a 63 strat pickup, bizarre nomenclature) are bloody brilliant - and secondly the cases have better, longer lasting latches (Cheney UK made).

I'm not a fan of the 57/62. Yes they are nominally the same spec but AFAIK they are machine wound with exactly parallel turns on the coil, and a higher capacitance.

I've got Fralins in my AVRI 62. They have a lot more detail to the sound than the original 57/62s.

I wouldn't get too hung up on any particular years. There are good guitars and less good guitars in any year. I love mine, but it was one of those happy accidents. I was in a shop to try an amp, and they picked it off the wall for me to try the amp with. I was blown away by the guitar, and ended up buying the guitar. In my continuing amp search, I'd generally ask shops to let me have an AVRI 62 to try the amp with if they had one, as it should have been the same as mine. I tried several, but none were as good as mine. Some of them were pretty lifeless. I think you will get the same in any year of production.

icu81b4 · September 2023

https://www.squealingpigguitars.co.uk/single-post/what-we-should-know-about-the-fender-vintage-reissue-part-1

Strat54 · September 2023

Gassage said:

The first run Fullerton made AVRI's are incredible instruments, but part of that is the Gilmour CAR Strat thing.

You'll pay CS money for one.

The guy that helped design them told me otherwise...'We were just making the best of what limited information and materials were available at the time, they are not worth the prices commanded today' - John Page.

They were just okay, some were pretty dreadful Don't feed the hype lol...and yes I owned plenty, Doug Chandler once sold me Mick Ralphs '52 re-issue for £400. Not a great Tele, no wonder Mick sold it on.

NCo · September 2023

Been watching this thread closely since I considered a few of the models.

I managed to try a couple of AVRI 62's, an AV 65 and an AV 59. Granted that it's a tiny sample size, I really don't understand why people think that the AVs are better guitars.

They are different, mainly necks and pickups which are subjective. But as someone who doesn't care for vintage correctness, poly undercoats etc - I really don't see how the AVs are better in any way.

The AVRIs seem extremely under valued as they lost popularity, so it works for me as a potential buyer.

My only question mark is the AV ii 61. Can't get my hands on one to try, and the online reviews are pretty mixed in regards to QC.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

RobG3294 · September 2023

NCo said:

Been watching this thread closely since I considered a few of the models.

I managed to try a couple of AVRI 62's, an AV 65 and an AV 59. Granted that it's a tiny sample size, I really don't understand why people think that the AVs are better guitars.

They are different, mainly necks and pickups which are subjective. But as someone who doesn't care for vintage correctness, poly undercoats etc - I really don't see how the AVs are better in any way.

The AVRIs seem extremely under valued as they lost popularity, so it works for me as a potential buyer.

My only question mark is the AV ii 61. Can't get my hands on one to try, and the online reviews are pretty mixed in regards to QC.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Yes. I have owned one of the Fiesta Red AVII 61. Nice Guitar... With a BUT though... What you really need to watch for on these is the neck pockets. I have seen numerous examples (across the piste of the series) where the fitment is poor (pocket is oversized slightly) - as was mine.

There is nothing wrong with the old AVRI series at all, great Guitars. Just not on the attention to detail level of the AVs. That, there is no debate on.

The segment in bold is why, probably legitimately to be fair - you're putting the AVRI on a par with the American Vintage 1 series. Whether those attention to periodic details makes any impression on you, is your opinion which is totally fine.

There is a reason behind the consensus on the AV1 though. Trust me. Granted, its not everyones cup of tea, nor is everyone bothered about the anal detail.

I would in a friendly way urge you clear of the AV2 (for now at least, I think their QC will gradually improve as the range beds in properly) unless you can snag one at a sensible price - many many better options, including the older AVRI. That's my old Guitar for instance (and yes it's an AVRI not an AV

), and it's honestly streets ahead of the AV2 I had. Probably just a hair overpriced mind.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235220789421?hash=item36c44068ad:g:JOEAAOSwBv1kEbzH&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwHYOjbfQBLRkSxhjYCOubr3AHoLxfLSrI5nVezI2fp2WGbT39i0rnimfpsSmdgqauxuXmUnomE0rM2uRrUFEYSefM6c99txYSN27iVZJ0x9tWP1czdzAIGZvwIxI/pPvEYdJJlX8sEbCiD9vyLy53vDQmwKP9PthPjOU1QcvxPReTprvmVNnujcsuDL0uBv9jIrlQv8NoXOnbI+Pg+J13M2pIev8Jtla1mNZ9u5wrIRYNbZkptqjRgbOkVjcfOLCOw==|tkp:Bk9SR9ST2bzZYg

Alex2678 · September 2023

My AO had a gap at the side of the neck pocket - when I had it refinished the new finish was much thinner but the neck fit was much tighter - can only assume the butt of the neck could go further in to the pocket - so the wood might be a perfect fit but the thick paint could be getting in the way

Gerz6558 · September 2023

I currently own an AV ii 61 Strat and 66 Jazzmaster, also an AV 1 Jaguar. I've also owned a few more AV 1 and AO models over the years.

Just my opinion, but as much as I like the AV1 models I do think it's that flash coat finish and case candy which sends people nuts about them. When it comes down to what counts, I've really liked all of the lines I've owned equally. But if you really care about getting one which looks and feels like a broken in vintage Fender, it's hard to argue against a used AV1 model on that front.

I wouldn't pay much attention to the Internet hysteria about AV ii QC. If you buy from a good dealer such as Peach Guitars you'll have already seen the one you're buying, and they go the extra mile with a once over before it leaves them. I think Coda are good at this as well.

I don't really think you can go wrong with an AVRI, AV1, AO or AV ii. That's been my experience at least.

NCo · September 2023

RobG3294 said:

NCo said:

Been watching this thread closely since I considered a few of the models.

I managed to try a couple of AVRI 62's, an AV 65 and an AV 59. Granted that it's a tiny sample size, I really don't understand why people think that the AVs are better guitars.

They are different, mainly necks and pickups which are subjective. But as someone who doesn't care for vintage correctness, poly undercoats etc - I really don't see how the AVs are better in any way.

The AVRIs seem extremely under valued as they lost popularity, so it works for me as a potential buyer.

My only question mark is the AV ii 61. Can't get my hands on one to try, and the online reviews are pretty mixed in regards to QC.

Does anyone have any experience with these?

Yes. I have owned one of the Fiesta Red AVII 61. Nice Guitar... With a BUT though... What you really need to watch for on these is the neck pockets. I have seen numerous examples (across the piste of the series) where the fitment is poor (pocket is oversized slightly) - as was mine.

There is nothing wrong with the old AVRI series at all, great Guitars. Just not on the attention to detail level of the AVs. That, there is no debate on.

The segment in bold is why, probably legitimately to be fair - you're putting the AVRI on a par with the American Vintage 1 series. Whether those attention to periodic details makes any impression on you, is your opinion which is totally fine.

There is a reason behind the consensus on the AV1 though. Trust me. Granted, its not everyones cup of tea, nor is everyone bothered about the anal detail.

I would in a friendly way urge you clear of the AV2 (for now at least, I think their QC will gradually improve as the range beds in properly) unless you can snag one at a sensible price - many many better options, including the older AVRI. That's my old Guitar for instance (and yes it's an AVRI not an AV ), and it's honestly streets ahead of the AV2 I had. Probably just a hair overpriced mind.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/235220789421?hash=item36c44068ad:g:JOEAAOSwBv1kEbzH&amdata=enc:AQAIAAAAwHYOjbfQBLRkSxhjYCOubr3AHoLxfLSrI5nVezI2fp2WGbT39i0rnimfpsSmdgqauxuXmUnomE0rM2uRrUFEYSefM6c99txYSN27iVZJ0x9tWP1czdzAIGZvwIxI/pPvEYdJJlX8sEbCiD9vyLy53vDQmwKP9PthPjOU1QcvxPReTprvmVNnujcsuDL0uBv9jIrlQv8NoXOnbI+Pg+J13M2pIev8Jtla1mNZ9u5wrIRYNbZkptqjRgbOkVjcfOLCOw==|tkp:Bk9SR9ST2bzZYg

You were 100% right on the neck pocket.

Peach listed a couple of these for sale as Bstock due to paint chips in the neck pocket. This, in turn, made them photogrpah the neck pocket, and there seems to be a LOT of space between the neck and pocket There was another one that was also sold as B Stock where the pocket seems misaligned, took a screenshot of that too:

https://imgur.com/a/ft1BVe8

That's absolutely insane.

Here is the live link:
https://www.peachguitars.com/fender-american-vintage-ii-1961-stratocaster-rosewood-fiesta-red-b-stock-_1.htm

MaxA867 · September 2023

Managed to pick up this pretty cheap after lockdown. June 1982 stamped Fullerton RI. It’s true what they say though, definitively not vintage correct - the neck is way thin and the headstock looks like a hockey stick, but I bloody love it, sounds absolutely divine, plays great. Definitely not worth the crazy prices people are asking for them though IMO. There seem to be a lot of pretty well priced (given today’s crazy prices) AVRI and AO Strats around, I think if you’re after a vintage-ish workhorse Strat that would definitely be where I’d look!

jw_H-535 · September 2023

The AVRI's are incredible guitars. They do vary a little but over all they are the best vintage correct guitars besides custom shops. Especially the 2017-2019 ish era, they had supper thin nitro so relic really well. they are great players instruments.

qawsed · October 2023

I’ve had both AVRI and AV Jaguars and much prefer the AVRI overall, against all odds. As with any Fender range, bear in mind there’ll be hits and misses out there (in my experience at least).

Having said that, some of the praise floating round here about the AV range has me doubting my own opinion/experience!

Howdy, Stranger!

Categories

In this Discussion

Become a Subscriber!

Fender Stratocaster AVRI's

Comments